My under researched theory... Narcissism and other personality disorders was our natural state...

and kind, emphatic more spiritual awareness is what some/few of us have evolved into?

I say under researched, I mean my actual theory. It came to me in a moment of great clarity following much research. We all wonder why so many people are disordered in ways we can't relate. We just have to take a look back at history to see that, it's always been this way just maybe now we are more leaning towards humane ways of dealing with people, in terms of our actual leaders doing things in a seemingly fairer manner. In the west at least. So doesn't it stand to reason that we were always disordered but few broke free and became aware? Rather than, we've always been aware and just a rogue few are disordered.

Just food for thought. Don't flame me. X

These labels are very recent in our species evolution. Most are a creating within the last century or less. These behaviors have been with us since the beginning. These labels are not objective. There is no neurological data to back up the conclusion that these "diseases" are anything more than stigmatization.

We're all off center, else dumb as a tack:

reply to post by Treacherous


Wow! I was thinking of something along the same lines the past few days!

If most people are normal, how did we end up with a world ready to implode?

Why do people who see things that most of us can't usually get institutionalized?

All I know, is that I currently despise what our politically correct society calls normal..........

S&F from me!

A disorder DIS-ORDER

According to who??

I think you are right.

I`ve always felt or had a feeling that the people who are rude, crude, violent etc and act the most like cavemen are inhabited by inexperienced baby spirits who are new to life and are just starting on their long journey to spiritual growth. The baby spirits don`t have the experience to control the animal instincts of the body they inhabit.
The more mature the spirit is and the more lives it has lived the less like a caveman the person acts.
Humans are animals and have animal instincts just like all animals I think only an experienced and mature spirit has the ability to control the animal instincts of the body that it is inhabiting.

Originally posted by Tardacus

I think you are right.

I`ve always felt or had a feeling that the people who are rude, crude, violent etc and act the most like cavemen are inhabited by inexperienced baby spirits who are new to life and are just starting on their long journey to spiritual growth. The baby spirits don`t have the experience to control the animal instincts of the body they inhabit.
The more mature the spirit is and the more lives it has lived the less like a caveman the person acts.
Humans are animals and have animal instincts just like all animals I think only an experienced and mature spirit can control the animal instincts of the body that it is inhabiting.

edit on 27-2-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

So those who don't want to go into their pen,
and behave like good little sheep aren't evolved.

how's that working for you??

I wish we could rep people's posts at ats. I agree with all replies thus.. Yes, they're labels and yes who can really judge what is ordered and what is disordered. And, I feel I am on the right lines in my theory. I am also researching enroute from personality disorders what would make a sub human. Ie: to take all the positives from the so called disorders... Confidence, resilience, risk taking, joy seeking but on a healthy scale.... If it would indeed result in enlightenment of some kind and if that is the very journey we are upon.

Originally posted by Treacherous
I wish we could rep people's posts at ats. I agree with all replies thus.. Yes, they're labels and yes who can really judge what is ordered and what is disordered. And, I feel I am on the right lines in my theory. I am also researching enroute from personality disorders what would make a sub human. Ie: to take all the positives from the so called disorders... Confidence, resilience, risk taking, joy seeking but on a healthy scale.... If it would indeed result in enlightenment of some kind and if that is the very journey we are upon.

Sorry if i stepped over some line you may have,but isn't trying to put people
in boxes the real problem of today's society??

What happened to live and let live?

Again sorry but to me you sound like a middle class counceler who see's the human condition as a problem

No problem. No line I get your point, why the labels... I'm just working with what is out there and making sense of the world. Like most of the people at ats. For sure, not gona be bashing any narcissists with rolled up newspapers on the underground... I let them be lol. Still wanna understand why they are like that. Why I'm like this And what might be the point. Again. Like most people on ats and the world at large.

Also, middle class. Why thank you.

Originally posted by Treacherous
No problem. No line

I get your point, why the labels... I'm just working with what is out there and making sense of the world. Like most of the people at ats. For sure, not gona be bashing any narcissists with rolled up newspapers on the underground... I let them be lol. Still wanna understand why they are like that. Why I'm like this And what might be the point. Again. Like most people on ats and the world at large.

Also, middle class. Why thank you.

edit on 27-2-2013 by Treacherous because: (no reason given)

So live and let live isn't on the cards then?

I have to say i've never met said narcissists with rolled up newspapers(have no idea where your coming from there)
However people are people,surely to go against your base nature is the biggest problem,yeh it could get messy,but who said it was supposed to be neat and tidy.

Obviously our idea of ordered society isn't working.Food for thought maybe ?

Society and civilization are a thin veneer overlaid on our primal animal selves. Blowback is the casting aside of that veneer to let the animal out.

P

Originally posted by cjttatu

Originally posted by Tardacus

I think you are right.

I`ve always felt or had a feeling that the people who are rude, crude, violent etc and act the most like cavemen are inhabited by inexperienced baby spirits who are new to life and are just starting on their long journey to spiritual growth. The baby spirits don`t have the experience to control the animal instincts of the body they inhabit.
The more mature the spirit is and the more lives it has lived the less like a caveman the person acts.
Humans are animals and have animal instincts just like all animals I think only an experienced and mature spirit can control the animal instincts of the body that it is inhabiting.

edit on 27-2-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

So those who don't want to go into their pen,
and behave like good little sheep aren't evolved.

how's that working for you??

I have no idea what you are trying to say or how it relates to my post

Originally posted by Tardacus

Originally posted by cjttatu

Originally posted by Tardacus

I think you are right.

I`ve always felt or had a feeling that the people who are rude, crude, violent etc and act the most like cavemen are inhabited by inexperienced baby spirits who are new to life and are just starting on their long journey to spiritual growth. The baby spirits don`t have the experience to control the animal instincts of the body they inhabit.
The more mature the spirit is and the more lives it has lived the less like a caveman the person acts.
Humans are animals and have animal instincts just like all animals I think only an experienced and mature spirit can control the animal instincts of the body that it is inhabiting.

edit on 27-2-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

So those who don't want to go into their pen,
and behave like good little sheep aren't evolved.

how's that working for you??

I have no idea what you are trying to say or how it relates to my post

I just deleted a long answer to that,i realized it was pointless because as a caveman with a disorder,i
possibly don't belong on this thread. Please excuse my unevolved self from your presence.

reply to post by Treacherous


Human beings are animals. Just because they are a bit more intelligent, it doesn't mean that they are not. I actually think that animals are LESS "narcissistic /egotistic" since they do not have language to think things like "I'm the best" - but YES I do agree that selfishness is natural. Everyone is born selfish, it does not mean to be MEAN/RUDE to others, but just to be focused on self.

If you're willing, I'd like to hear your views on all of the personality disorders in the personality disorder spectrum...that is, from a viewpoint that encompasses the full medical definitions of these disorders, naturally.

So, you have three main types/clusters of personality disorders and a handful of otherwise not specified by type personality disorders...

Axis II - Personality Disorders

Cluster A - Odd or Eccentric Disorders
Paranoid
Schizoid
Schizotypal

Cluster B - Dramatic, Emotional, or Erratic Disorders
Antisocial
Borderline
Histrionic
Narcissistic

Cluster C - Anxious or Fearful Disorders
Avoidant
Dependent
Obsessive-Compulsive

Other - Disorders Not Specified
Depressive
Passive-Aggressive
Psychopathy
Sadistic
Self-Defeating

Anyway...what are your thoughts on any and all of these personality disorders (occurring either alone or comorbidly with other mental illnesses), by their medically defined traits and subtypes, in relation to the "natural" state of the human condition?

reply to post by jcutler12888


Wow good question, I'd like to answer this in more detail when I get a moment. My immediate response is that the majority if not all disorders are essentially a defence mechanism. So if we say that we are essentially primitive beings. We are simply adhering to natural instincts. Namely, fight, flight, fold or cold war. Did I make the last one up? Anyway you get the idea, if a beast is too big we flee to take stock. Our fleeing maybe permanent ie: anti social within today's society... The beasts are either extinct or in a zoo. Or we may recoup, reframe and come back with a stronger attitude. Similar to nartistic injury, devalue, repression and then a retaking of the world or beast.

This is a really quick reply off the top of my head. I'm at work lol. Will think on this because breaking it down in this way is really useful for my next research endeavour. Identifying the positives from these so called disorders to create some kind of superhuman blueprint. Maybe best not to ask at this point. Brb x

reply to post by Treacherous

Originally posted by Treacherous
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

Wow good question, I'd like to answer this in more detail when I get a moment. My immediate response is that the majority if not all disorders are essentially a defence mechanism. So if we say that we are essentially primitive beings. We are simply adhering to natural instincts. Namely, fight, flight, fold or cold war. Did I make the last one up? Anyway you get the idea, if a beast is too big we flee to take stock. Our fleeing maybe permanent ie: anti social within today's society... The beasts are either extinct or in a zoo. Or we may recoup, reframe and come back with a stronger attitude. Similar to nartistic injury, devalue, repression and then a retaking of the world or beast.

This is a really quick reply off the top of my head. I'm at work lol. Will think on this because breaking it down in this way is really useful for my next research endeavour. Identifying the positives from these so called disorders to create some kind of superhuman blueprint. Maybe best not to ask at this point. Brb x

Thanks! I'm so glad that you answered me. Take as much time as you want to research each disorder and come up with an answer for each...believe me, researching them and learning about them is actually pretty fun. I, too, think that our behaviors are patterns of defense mechanisms...but when it comes to personality disorders, people hear the name (like the commonly used terms "narcissistic" and "antisocial") and don't know the true definition of the disorder and base their hypotheses on the definitions of the words and not the disorders themselves. (Cold war...I like it, thanks for making it up )

For example, you said antisocial could be a permanent fleeing within today's society, leading me to believe you're basing your hypothesis on the commonly used definition of antisocial ("Oh, she never leaves her house or wants to see anybody...she's so antisocial") instead of the clinical definition of antisocial personality disorder, which has been called the criminal's personality disorder in that people who have it are usually quite sociable and charming but they refuse to adhere to society's standards (I.e. anti-social) and often break societal norms by doing things such as committing crimes. People with antisocial personality disorder, by clinical definition, are not people who have taken flight from society as a defense mechanism, they are pretty sociable and charming people who are unable to keep themselves from breaking the rules over and over and over again, keeping them at odds with society. The same thing goes for narcissistic personality disorder...people seem to think that it has something to do with our usual usage of the word narcissistic ("God, he's so full of himself and thinks he's better than everyone...he's so narcissistic") when narcissistic personality disorder has a full and separate definition that differs from the definition of the word narcissistic.

i REALLY think you're onto something about personality disorders versus our natural states...but I think that once you research the personality disorders and see the clinical definitions, you'll be convinced that seeds of these "disorders" (which have only been identified and called such for about a century) lay within us all and it's all just a matter of to what extent which seed takes root and grows in us to alter ourselves from our natural states and paths. Once you look at all up and read all about it (and really, it can be some mind-blowing stuff...I love psychiatritry and psychology, this is one of my long time favorite areas of study), you're going to be amazed...and I think you're going to be able to write out probably a SERIES of threads addressing each of these clusters of personality disorders and how some of us come around to be such distorted versions of our true selves.

I can't wait to hear back from you, I'm really excited about this thread and this idea, I'm so glad you started it and I can't wait to talk to you about it more!

Jennifer

reply to post by jcutler12888


Omg someone whose as interested in this subject as me and has more insight! I think I can learn from you, no the other way around. You are absolutely right regarding my use of anti social. I was actually using it like you said in the well known idea of anti social. Meaning doesn't mix with people that much. Which funnily enough was the start of my researching because I consider myself to be anti social in that sense. Perhaps that's why it came to mind so easy, indeed I was surprised to read about the clinical definition of anti social but at the same time it made asbos ( a uk warrant - anti social behaviour order) often distributed at clubs and bars, make so much more sense.

Anyway I am still yet to spend some more time on this. I just love ats and the fact it brings so many awesome and individual minds together. You've made this thread fascinating for me. I was just shooting into the dark. The fact that it's a plausible theory just spurs me on. Feel free to pm me if you want to chat some more. I will get round to this. Real life just calls at the moment. X

Also, there is room for a thread about every disorder. I think of a new thread every damn paragraph but refrain lol. But what I think would be a really insightful thread would be to have people take the personality disorder tests and report back. It's just mind blowing what comes back. It can be really humbling and 100% aid personal growth. I personally sought out the tests because I felt I was anti social only to learn I was more narcissitic and schztipal (sp) and it made me so aware of what I need to work on to fulfill my goals. This could be so enlightening for so many. Of course, it relies on people being honest with the tests but for those who are interested in self improvement. I genuinely believe, like you I imagine this area of interest is so beneficial. Anyway I am rambling because I've worked for 14 days straight.... I'll post this and see what comes of it.

reply to post by Treacherous


I'm DEFINITELY interested in the subject! I bet we could work together and you could make some AWESOME threads about this subject...I'm not ready to post threads, I'm really shy about it and don't take mean responses well, LOL, so you could post the threads with any information I can provide you, LOL. "Meanings" rarely mix with people, you're absolutely right. ASBOS and UK warrants? I don't know anything about either, please tell me more. Are you saying that in the UK, they can ban you from bars and clubs if "the state" deems you to be antisocial?

I'm glad that I found this thread, this is such an interesting topic! I'll definitely PM you about it...I'd love to work on this theory with you!

I wish that we could start a thread and see if people would be willing to take the personality disorder test and post their results...but from seeing the skepticism coming from some people regarding smyleegrl's Waiting Game Questionnaire, I doubt anyone would provide their results because they'd think they were being pumped for information by the government or potential stalkers or whatever. I think that if people were willing to take the test, share their results with each other, and start a serious dialogue about the subject, it could be really beneficial to some people.