Quantum Religion

I'm probably going to get reamed for posting this, but it's an idea that's been eating away at me for some time and I need to get it off my chest. Please do not look at this as a "crisis of faith", I am very secure in what I believe.

It all started a long while back when I was first reading about quantum mechanics theory, some of Hawking's ideas in his books are mind-blowing in their elegance, despite how complex the subject matter is.



Schrödinger's cat is a popular paradoxical thought experiment. It immediately got me thinking about the overall structure of the universe in general, and if this was true, if it could be a reflection of the One who created it.

We can never really know what's inside that black box, until the moment it is revealed to us. We can make predictions based on probability and formulate a general idea of what we think (or hope) might happen, but that's about as definitive as it gets.

Taking this a step further, it got me to thinking about how much God loves wonderous variety, and about the myriad belief structures man has pursued in an attempt to understand Him. Overall, a great deal of them share many core similarities, such as being good to one another and trying to live life to the fullest with love in our hearts.

Where they tend to deviate is largely a cultural thing, be it in artistic expression, the customs and rituals we practice, and other minutiae where if they were all taken away the core principles would still remain.

In essence, much like Schrödinger's cat, perhaps our Creator presents Himself to different people in different ways, with no one single outcome being definitive and all outcomes being equally probable - that is, until that black box is revealed to us and we finally become one with the truth.

It also goes hand in hand with the idea that, while the core principles of a religion are extremely significant in both a literal and a spiritual sense, equally important is the way that one applies it to their everyday life.

In closing I will share this, as I think Clapton says it best:



Thanks for bearing with me, and please, be kind.

reply to post by KyrieEleison


Still am not sure about "the Creator"....


It's still morning here, so I'm not sure I understood what's this thread about

Will get back to you after a cup of coffee

I've been working on a quantum perspective philosophy for a long time, if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Quantum physics ties into the parallel universe theory and string theory, allowing a scientific explanation for free will, and originally, the perspective part was meant to help people understand that everyone has a different reality they experience - however, with quantum physics relying on the observer and the observed, there is a lot more potential in that area.

In addition, there is a lot of evidence to support the idea that the human soul that we each are (we would experience other people) is a quantum entity supported by a quantum field in the brain.

If you were to ask me, I would say this is my religion already, I have a thesis paper written on it. It is far from complete, but I have been working on it for half a decade.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


If it helps, take into consideration that it is written through the lens of a Christian.

If you do not believe in a "Creator", then simply consider interchanging it with, say, the active force of the universe which is the vehicle that brought all into being and sustains us, and that while its arc is long it bends towards justice.

reply to post by KyrieEleison


Let's play a bit while a sip my coffee...

whatever you consider "the creator"...what do you think his/its sense of justice is? Since you mentioned justice.

I feel justice is a human term and condition. Relevant only to our frame of mind. Animals have no sense of justice. It is irrelevant in their world.

So what do you think...a supreme being, a creator of everything, feels when he/it/she sees...two ants doing harm to each other?

How do you feel when you see two ants...and one kills another. Do you feel injustice? Should "the creator" feel injustice?

Thanks.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


"Play" in this context comes across as a bit frivolous, and none of this is frivolous to me at all.

I invite you to read The Penguin, The Cuckoo, and The Crow regarding my thoughts about animals.

Justice is as it is defined here at Dictionary.com, as applied to the inanimate think of it as every action has a reaction, so plan accordingly.

I hope this helps further your understanding of where I am coming from.

ETA: Regarding the ants, the arc may bend towards justice however it does not mean that injustices never occur. I am not an expert entymologist, however if the ant's collective behaviors result in their survival then I would assume it fits the definition.

reply to post by KyrieEleison

In essence, much like Schrödinger's cat, perhaps our Creator presents Himself to different people in different ways, with no one single outcome being definitive and all outcomes being equally probable - that is, until that black box is revealed to us and we finally become one with the truth.

So in other words god is anything we want him to be and the observer creates god in their mind like collapsing the wave function. Sounds about right to me.

Originally posted by KyrieEleison
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

"Play" in this context comes across as a bit frivolous, and none of this is frivolous to me at all.

I invite you to read The Penguin, The Cuckoo, and The Crow regarding my thoughts about animals.

Justice is as it is defined here at Dictionary.com, as applied to the inanimate think of it as every action has a reaction, so plan accordingly.

I hope this helps further your understanding of where I am coming from.

Red the opening post from your link. Your examples are what they are....an example of the beauty of evolution. It is all learned behavior. Adaptability that arises from pure instinct to survive.

Every action has reaction...but I wouldn't go so far to call it "justice". There is no justice in the universe...justice is a human mind construct. The universe/nature reacts...we apply the etiquette of justice/injustice.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


I have a difficult time understanding how a crow raising a cat would be an evolved or instinctual behavior, and there are a great deal of these types of examples in nature across many different species.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

reply to post by KyrieEleison


Ok. So what do you think it is? The creator speaking to the crow to raise a cat ?

Is the creator talking to a nutty old lady that has a full house of cats ?

You can not address the thing about the crow, cos you don't understand the reasons. We can speculate. The crow could be mentally unstable for all you know. It's not like it's the usual behavior.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Hmm. Well, if one were to take more than a cursory look at the story, the crow did indeed have a family of its own in a nearby tree that it cared for in addition to the cat, so in just about every other aspect of being a crow it was very crow-like.

I suggest taking a while to think this over, maybe you will change your mind, maybe not, but the point of this thread was not to debate, but just to share an idea, and we do not have to agree, what's important is what it means to you.

Thanks again for your feedback.

reply to post by KyrieEleison


We certainly don't have to...however...it's my default reaction to debate...so don't take it against me.

Anyway...I appreciate your train of thought.

UPDATE:

Another thing I had meant to add (not sure why I forgot about this, perhaps it was O2 deprivation to the brain) is the concept of a narcissism of small differences which may hold some insight as to why there are so many different splintered factions within Christianity, and other religions overall.

Originally posted by KyrieEleison

It all started a long while back when I was first reading about quantum mechanics theory, some of Hawking's ideas in his books are mind-blowing in their elegance, despite how complex the subject matter is.


Schrödinger's cat is a popular paradoxical thought experiment. It immediately got me thinking about the overall structure of the universe in general, and if this was true, if it could be a reflection of the One who created it.

We can never really know what's inside that black box, until the moment it is revealed to us. We can make predictions based on probability and formulate a general idea of what we think (or hope) might happen, but that's about as definitive as it gets.

Taking this a step further, it got me to thinking about how much God loves wonderous variety, and about the myriad belief structures man has pursued in an attempt to understand Him.

In essence, much like Schrödinger's cat, perhaps our Creator presents Himself to different people in different ways, with no one single outcome being definitive and all outcomes being equally probable - that is, until that black box is revealed to us and we finally become one with the truth.

It also goes hand in hand with the idea that, while the core principles of a religion are extremely significant in both a literal and a spiritual sense, equally important is the way that one applies it to their everyday life.
Thanks for bearing with me, and please, be kind.

This is the blinking theory. You are only seeing what you think you see between eye blinks, Electrons blink in and out and exist in two places at once. It is not man whom trys to understand God (although you think so), in actuality it is God trying to understand itself though its creation Mankind; a mirror effect.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


An interesting viewpoint, although I don't think it's the actual blinking of the eye so much as the fact that our paltry sense of vision can only process signals up to a certain physical limit, varying from person to person. This is not in support of the old FPS theory as that's been demonstrated to be false, however the inherent propagation delays from when the light hits our eyes to when the information is processed enough for us to react to it cannot be ignored.

In a perfect world, there would be no such constraints, and our perception would be infinite - which brings into question whether such an existence would be more confusing than revealing.

Thanks for your contribution!

Originally posted by KyrieEleison
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

An interesting viewpoint, although I don't think it's the actual blinking of the eye so much as the fact that our paltry sense of vision can only process signals up to a certain physical limit, varying from person to person. This is not in support of the old FPS theory as that's been demonstrated to be false, however the inherent propagation delays from when the light hits our eyes to when the information is processed enough for us to react to it cannot be ignored.

In a perfect world, there would be no such constraints, and our perception would be infinite - which brings into question whether such an existence would be more confusing than revealing.

What are we seeing when we think we are dreaming, eyes wide shut. I know that the large Cats do not see form as we see it. They see a motion blob energy form. Same same for preditor bird species, Eagle, Hawk..I wonder why we have spacial depth perspective binocular vision yet are unable to see the 'energy' form from a mile away. Eyes to the side of the head for birds. What are you missing when you blink, because there is a lot of information slides by. Maybe it is supposed to be.

Originally posted by KyrieEleison
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

An interesting viewpoint, although I don't think it's the actual blinking of the eye so much as the fact that our paltry sense of vision can only process signals up to a certain physical limit, varying from person to person. This is not in support of the old FPS theory as that's been demonstrated to be false, however the inherent propagation delays from when the light hits our eyes to when the information is processed enough for us to react to it cannot be ignored.

In a perfect world, there would be no such constraints, and our perception would be infinite - which brings into question whether such an existence would be more confusing than revealing.

What are we seeing when we think we are dreaming, eyes wide shut. I know that the large Cats do not see form as we see it. They see a motion blob energy form. Same same for preditor bird species, Eagle, Hawk..I wonder why we have spacial depth perspective binocular vision yet are unable to see the 'energy' form from a mile away. Eyes to the side of the head for birds. What are you missing when you blink, because there is a lot of information slides by. Maybe it is supposed to be.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Based on what I've seen from EEGs, what we see when we are dreaming is electrochemical stimulation, albeit in a modified form.

Regarding humans vs. other animals, the only explanation I can offer is that our species did not require the same level of specialization as others did for our survival. Some things can see in the infrared, some take a very, very long time to respond to visual stimuli or are even completely blind, and they are living testaments that it works for them.

I'm not really sure what I'm missing when I blink (since I can't see it) however I'm dubious of the idea that the universe would time its operations to my desire to blink.

Originally posted by KyrieEleison
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Based on what I've seen from EEGs, what we see when we are dreaming is electrochemical stimulation, albeit in a modified form.

Regarding humans vs. other animals, the only explanation I can offer is that our species did not require the same level of specialization as others did for our survival. Some things can see in the infrared, some take a very, very long time to respond to visual stimuli or are even completely blind, and they are living testaments that it works for them.

I'm not really sure what I'm missing when I blink (since I can't see it) however I'm dubious of the idea that the universe would time its operations to my desire to blink.

I would like every specialization available. Assume this; a universe can be acheived in its making in a nanosecond of a belief of creation "I WILL THIS PURE AND TRUE" Think of what may be being missed in the blink of an eye. Horus's Eye. You might be surprised that if you directed the desire to blink or not blink REAL INTENT could change the universe as YOU know it (is a possible); just need the imagination to do so. This Universe popped into being once conceived in an instant.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


I get where you are coming from, however as I had indicated, if it is unobservable then all we have are theories and ideas, such that any one or all of them may be equally probable until it is revealed. Maybe we're both right. Maybe neither of us are.

That said, again, I think how one applies these beliefs is at least as important (if not more so) than the beliefs themselves. Your environment will react to you based on how you react to it, and that is definitely observable.