Is the Roman Catholic Church being thrown under the bus?

I see a spiritual dynamic being played out in what is currently happening within and regarding the Roman Catholic Church, and I believe that this dynamic is revealed in the Bible. I’d like to present that idea for discussion.

Please note: If you have no regard whatsoever for the Bible, then I respect your right to disbelieve what is written in it. This post, however, is not intended to debate the validity of scripture or the sanity of those who believe it, but to discuss a particular perspective on current world events in light of certain passages of scripture. I’d appreciate if we’d keep our discussion in that line.

Since I wish to cite a passage from the Book of Revelation (The Apocalypse of John), and since interpretation of that book is often a source of confusion, I’d like to first briefly explain my view on that often misunderstood document insofar as it pertains to this topic.

My Perspective On The Book of Revelation

I see the purpose of the Book of Revelation as largely being to give us instruction (revelation) in certain spiritual principles and dynamics that occur within and affect the world in which we live. I believe that the focus on The Apocalypse as a vehicle for deciphering future events has robbed students of the Bible of its true and most important value. While it may have prophetic value in the sense of foretelling coming events, it’s deepest prophetic value and its greatest usefulness lie in speaking to the dynamics of history and the interaction between the Church and the world on an ongoing basis.

I believe that the events described in the Apocalypse of John have, by and large and on some level, played out again and again throughout the course of human history, and will continue to play out until that history comes to an end.

In Light Of Current Events

Revelation 17:1-2 speaks of “the great prostitute.” It says:

“Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” (Revelation 17:1-2 ESV)

In the entire context of this passage, I see this prostitute as being a picture of any quasi- or pseudo-ecclesiastical body that lays claim to status as the Church, but then uses that status to amass worldly achievements, riches and power that were never meant to be the goal of the Church. (A prostitute, by definition, is one who sells one’s self for a price in order to obtain something.)

In order to attain worldly power and riches, any religious system must, of necessity, allay itself with the powers that, in the natural order, hold these things. The Roman Church, since the time of Constantine, has done this, and done it well. While I won’t say that the Roman Catholic Church is the great prostitute, I do believe that it fits the description of a prostitute, in this sense. It has attained to worldly wealth and political power of a temporal and carnal nature and has become something that, in my understanding of scripture, the Church of Jesus Christ was never intended to be. It is one of many bodies that, throughout the course of history, has, in the name of true religion, prostituted itself to the temporal world for gain and influence.

The relationship between the Roman Church and world powers has, up to now, been symbiotic. The secular system has, in many ways, benefited from its relationship with the Roman Church, as the Roman Church has used the secular system for its own gain. They have, historically, held an uneasy alliance and shared wealth and power. A study of European history from Constantine forward makes this fact clear.

Where Are Things Going?

“And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.” (Revelation 17:15-18 ESV)

The symbiotic relationship between the prostituted religious system and the world (the world, here, symbolized by beast [the spirit of secularism] and the ten horns [the political powers]) eventually sours. The prostitute is useful to the worldly system only for a time by helping the secular system achieve its goals of dominance. The two cannot, however, coexist for long. There are two reasons for this:

First, though the two work together up to a point, they never work toward a common goal. They both want to achieve dominance in ultimate exclusion of the other, and neither will ultimately share with the other. They both know this.

Second, since the prostitute - even with all of its corruption - still bears some hint of the heavenly or spiritual, the secular system will always see it as a potential threat from a spiritual perspective. The philosophical systems of the world wish to obliterate any hint of the spiritual, even as it uses the spiritual to attain its own ends.

At some point, then, this quasi-religious system becomes more of a liability than an asset to its secular ally. At this point, the beast and the horns (the spirit of the world and the powers that reign in the world) turn on the prostitute and, essentially, throw her under the bus. “They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire...”

From a heavenly perspective, this is done at God’s behest, as he uses these worldly powers as his tool to execute judgment on this body that has claimed His throne, then abused the authority that emanates from that claim. I Peter 4:17 assures us that:

“...it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?"

The principle here being that when judgment starts, it will first start with those who claim God’s kingdom, then will move to those who reject it.

Is it possible that this is what is happening now?

It is obvious that the corruption inside the Papist Church has been going on for ages. The sexual perversion - namely the abuse of boys by the clergy - is nothing new. The current investigations into money laundering and organized crime ties within the Vatican and the Vatican bank are digging into things that have been going on for years, perhaps centuries.

Why is it, only now, becoming an issue and being sounded abroad? It seems as though these dark, wicked activities that have, for ages, been ignored and even covered over by the powers that be are suddenly being thrust into the light.

Are we, perhaps, seeing the principles revealed in Revelation 17:15-18 play out before our eyes?

Have the worldly powers decided that they no longer have any need of the Roman religious system and decided to jettison it by uncovering its internal rot, by making her "desolate and naked?"

Has time arrived for judgment in the house of those who lay claim to God’s eternal and spiritual kingdom?

Originally posted by incoserv
Have the worldly powers decided that they no longer have any need of the Roman religious system?

No, they are still gonna use the Catholic Church, and other organized religious systems (see the Illuminati's hand in the Middle East, the Saudi-funded Salafi movement, and their hand in America, the Right-wing modern-day Protestant movement).

Has time arrived for judgment in the house of those who lay claim to God’s eternal and spiritual kingdom?

I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean by this question. But keep in mind that in the End Times, TPTB will be waging war against the Saints!

A crime is a crime.. Thrown under the bus? No way. This organization shouldn't even exist.

Originally posted by BadbrotherRyan
A crime is a crime.. Thrown under the bus? No way. This organization shouldn't even exist.

You're missing the point. Whether the organization should exist is not in question. It does exist, as do many organizations that shouldn't. We can't change that fact, whether we like it or not.

As an existing organization, it has a nature and it has goals. It has allies and enemies. It functions within the context of this world's political and social systems.

The question is not whether it should exist, but given its existence, why is it suddenly - after centuries of peaceful, albeit uneasy, coexistance with the powers that govern the world - being subjected to such close scrutiny, having its sins (which have existed for ages, no doubt know to many) thrown out into public light.

In short, Why now?

I am positing a thesis that attempts to answer that question.

reply to post by incoserv


If I had to guess, I would say that hands are being forced! Maybe there are unseen forces applying pressure that has suddenly started rooting up information that could bring down the whole works and some factions are merely distancing themselves as much as possible. As I stated in another thread, there are three nation states like three legs of a stool. One leg is being kicked from under. What happens when a three legged stool has one leg kicked from under it? Just my two cents.

Well Transgressions by clerics in Canada are documented since the beginning of the residential school system around 1830 for Anglican and 1880 for Catholic (Jesuit) institutions. Accusations were largely denied and ignored or, if the proof was irrefutable, the offending cleric(s) were simply moved to a different parish.
I believe the current focus on the crimes of the church has been building since that time. The victims have voices now that cannot be ignored so the spotlight is on this bus that the church built for irself.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


The world will use these systems so long as it perceives an advantage. There comes a point when the hubris of the world (the beast, the dragon, the ten horns, in the symbolic language of the Book of Revelation) comes to a head and the world decides to go it on its own, fully rejecting these religious (or quasi-religious) systems all all of their implications.

As to the question:

Has time arrived for judgment in the house of those who lay claim to God’s eternal and spiritual kingdom?

Perhaps not a proper question for a forum such as this. The idea is that this may be the beginning of a house cleaning in terms of justice.

I respect your views OP.
I see Revelations as the alchemical enlightenment
manual in code. Seven seals Seven Chakras etc.
I'm sure you have heard that before.

It is my estimation that if the Catholic Church will be
thrown under a bus, it intends on taking the world with it.
The church is rapidly dying and losing members and clout .

If the Church picks a pope named Peter, they are willingly
trying to destroy the world. What do they have to lose?
This Pope Petrus will name Barrack (lightening from Heaven)
as the Anti-Christ and all hell will break loose.

A fake Apocalypse( which means revealing as you know) will be born.

We are going to be seeing the dismantling of all religions-it is one of the last things to go.

Religion has always been a two-edged sword for the elite-on the one hand, it can be used as a system of control, on the other, it allows people a sense of hope and freedom, a code of ethics and compassion. For some reason, these things are absolutely repugnant to the elite. It is not enough that we are devolving into a system of exceedingly rich and shockingly poor. The elite must have long lives and beauty, but even this is not enough. They want complete degredation of the human spirit, and this can only happen when every emotional refuge-patriotism, faith, art, family, etc, are completely corrupted and then ground to dust. They could control us forever, and we would willingly submit, if they would just allow us these few simple things, but even this is offensive to them, and they must attack those things.

The only consolation of this is that in doing so, the powers that be will destroy themselves.

reply to post by incoserv


This may shock you, but your post is darn near perfectly in line with the Jehovah's Witness viewpoint of the Harlot.
The difference being they believe that religion as a whole is going to be 'thrown under a bus'. I personally like Chapter 18 verse 11 in revelation.“Also, the traveling merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore." Think of all the holidays associated with Religion, and all the money that is made. I am sure many would weep if the harlot was killed.

If interested, a copy of Revelation It's Grand Climax at Hand is freely available.

You are wrong about the "Book of Revelation" the Great Prostitute with ho the King bath's with is a metaphor for Silver, the King is Gold, the sea is the body, it's all about alchemy metaphors, the 7 seals are metaphors for seven operation, the creation of Adam at the 6 day is a metaphor for the creation of the Mercury of the Sages, and the 666 or number of the beast, is a direct instruction to repeat the previous process to obtain, the so called "Salt, Mercury and Sulphur of the Sages at the 7 operation of each process.

When will people finally realize what the bible is and that the book of revelation is codified instruction of the process to make the Philosophers stone, and that all religion is based upon it? There is no beast as a personification of evil, this beast is evil only to the metals it dissolve, there is no beast that will destroy mankind. Is all metaphors, when will people finally wake up and see the light, and realize that true religion is within ourselves only, is the only place to find God, or the God within ourselves.

Please wake up people

reply to post by incoserv


Welll if you know history you would know that the catholic church has never had said "Peaceful" existence with ANY of the world........they have always done battle with someone.........

I myself am under the belief that the church itself may have started out well enough but was turned into a tool to use as power......

Christ never taught the theology that is prescribed by the catholic church.....infact its worship of false idols and golden calfs.......wich they PREACH, is chief among them......

Christ never wanted a ruling religion among men.........he just wanted love, and FAITH among man to do whats right, and follow what we inherently know, what we are born with ..........

He taught that there is something greather then ourselves and to seek it out, because it made us what we SHOULD be......but to find it in ourselves and when we had doubts to look to his EXAMPLE to find this......to strive for this.........

Not for this abomination...this self righteous strangle hold on the definition of god and reality........

They ........like Rome, brought all they sought on themselves..........

Now they must face their own judgement.......

LIke most religious organisations, the Catholic Church came into being as a means of control over the people, and to rob them, while telling the unfortunate peasants that it was Gods work.

The recent charges of sexual abuse by clerics is not really anything new and has been going on since the "Church" was first established. It's fully male oriented, denies it's missionaries family life and relationships with the opposite sex, so is it any wonder so many clerics, many brought up in this environment from an early age, turn to getting their jollies any chance they can with the most vulnerable?

Of course, the sexual shenanigans are bad enough, but left out of all this is the even bigger issue of Vatican banking and financial dealings. Often shrouded in secrecy and there have been accusations for decades, if not longer, of fraud, assassinations of competitors or potential whistleblowers and other rather unsavoury practices. But, they are doing Gods work, so it's all fine and dandy!

A simple look back through history and at how many people have been oppressed, molested, tortured and murdered in the name of organised religions and one would get the impression that this God (lets just stick with the the monotheistic ones) sure is one psychopathic nutjob!

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Christ never taught the theology that is prescribed by the catholic church.....infact its worship of false idols and golden calfs.......wich they PREACH, is chief among them......

Sorry but that's incorrect. Catechism of the Catholic Church
The Catholic Church does not preach that people should worship false idols and/or golden calfs of any kind. It states that worship belongs to God alone. As for the theology taught by the Catholic church .. a lot of what people THINK the Catholic church teaches, just isn't really what they teach.

A lot of what they teach I disagree with .. like onanism for example. But that is their interpretation of scripture and they are welcome to it. There are dozens and dozens of different christian denominations and each group has their own interpretation of scripture. Heck .. even the Baptists aren't just 'baptist' .... There are northern baptists, southern baptists, free will baptists, bible believing baptists, etc etc .... everyone has their own interpretation of scripture.

Christ never wanted a ruling religion among men.........

Matthew 16:18 .... Jesus stated that He has a church on earth and that Peter was very much in charge of it. He also stated that whatever Peter said was held bound both on earth and in heaven.

Originally posted by sealing
If the Church picks a pope named Peter, they are willingly
trying to destroy the world. What do they have to lose?

Technically ALL POPES are 'Peter'. They sit in the 'Chair of Peter'.
They 'wear the shoes of the fisherman' (Peter).
So no pope has to have the name peter or take the name peter
for this propehcy to be fulfilled.


As for the question 'Is the Roman Catholic Church' being thrown under the bus?
Yes and No. ... IMHO
Some of what is happening to the church is it's own fault.
Some of it is other powers trying to weaken it because it's position is a threat to them.
The NWO shadow bunch have to reign in the Catholic Church's influence.
And exposing the errors and sins .. while ignoring the good .. is an effective way to do it.

reply to post by incoserv

An Italian Catholic bishop states he is “open” to the use of Eastern meditation by Catholics in their prayer life. However, Msgr. Raffaello Martinelli, the Bishop of Frascati, (consecrated 2 July 2009), who served as an aide to Pope Benedict XVI when the pope was the head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, said these practices must be used in the framework of Christian spirituality.
Since the Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions [Nostra Aetate, 2], a Catholic should not be prejudiced against controlled breathing, mantras and other Eastern practices as being non-Christian. The Catholic can, however, take from them what is useful, provided he does not lose sight of the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and its needs since it is within the Christian spiritual sphere these practices must be employed. 
www.patheos.com...

John the Baptist said that the one who followed him would baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire. Fire is only mentioned in the gospels in which the Pharisees are present. Where they are not, scripture states that He will baptise with the Holy Spirit (solely).

For centuries the RCC has allowed repetitive chanting through the Rosary and all of its mystics have extolled the "sacred heart fire", which exists in every heathen religion. These very same practices of meditative self-hypnosis are being brought into our schools, our churches, our businesses and our health care under the guise of stress reduction, exercise and health improvement. Pastors are calling down "the fire" and the congregations are rolling around on the floor, laughing uncontrollably and experiencing intense burning sensations as if they were on fire. They truly believe that it is the Holy Spirit. 

ATS is swamped with constant appeals to "go within" to find the truth, and already in this thread, they are doing it. We all know that He uses the wicked to destroy the wicked . Those kings are given "one mind" to burn the prostitute. What else was "fired" in scripture? The clay bricks in the tower later called Babel. They were of "one language", and is it simply coincidence that meditation self hypnosis leads its practitioners to believe 1) that they are divine, immortal and thus in no need of salvation and 2) that they are "one"?. In a world indoctrinated to believe in something "only if it can be experienced or observed", the false signs and wonders are hooking them on the lie. The appeal used repeatedly in the meditation threads is 'you just got to experience it....then you'll know the truth'.

The Pope said a few days ago something to the effect that it was time to go climb a mountain and meditate. The exact quote escapes me. Mountains and meditation are most often associated in Buddhism. What I've been led to understand is that the RCC is going to come out as the major leader of Babel in some form. I suspect that this public chastisement is for show to the world and that whatever revamped image it takes will be perceived as "good" by the world at large. Especially if it takes major knocks which satisfy the lust for revenge in so many hearts today. It's efforts at uniting all of the world religions hasn't gone unnoticed, and it's blasphemy of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the process. What is the one religion which most people in the world would say is peaceful and non-threatening? Buddhism. Yet, only a hand understand that Buddhism fully believes that all people, whether in this life or the "next", MUST become Buddhist if they wish to ascend? How many know that their writings chronicle that it will be Buddhists who go out and kill all non-Buddhists?

I truly feel that what is happening is that all of the tares are being bundled and burned. The harvesting angels are doing what Jesus said they would be doing. There is no more fear of falling into the hands of THE Living God. The world rejects the Truth just as they rejected Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago. They want man, not Him. They'd rather have the murderer, insurrectionist and robber if that man told them what they wanted to hear. They want Heaven but not Him. They want immortality but not through Him. They want spirituality but not through faith. They wants signs and powers of the Holy Spirit, but they don't want simple hope. We know that He is working to bring all things under His feet. Lets pray that we are worthy to escape all these things coming by staying close and looking towards Him. I've got much to learn from Him, and refinement needed to the above.

imo revelations is drug crazed ravings of a lunatic.

Originally posted by bigdohbeatdown
imo revelations is drug crazed ravings of a lunatic.

Good point. John was a very old man. He was living in exile. He had survived assassination attempts and had seen most of those he knew and loved murdered and butchered. He wasn't living in a healthy way. Who knows what kind of food he had. He certainly didn't have any medicines. My guess .... pious hallucinations due to old age dementia. The hallucinations were full of religious imagry because that is what his life had been seeped in.

Who knows .... ???

If the 'visions' are real prophecies ... .... what a ride!

reply to post by incoserv


Well thought and written.

As for the sexual aspect of those quoted scriptures, I sometimes wonder whether Peter himself may have mis-founded the church based on his own hatred of women and in so doing, basically set the course for the future that includes so much deviance.

Now, some of this finds foundation in the Gnostic gospel of Mary Magdalene but this text is considered heretical by some so, it is often difficult to get much audience on the concept.

Overall, the very nature of how Catholic clergy are forbidden from marrying first, runs counter to the wish from God that we be fruitful and multiply. In fact, Jewish Rabbis are expected to have large families. Secondly, it would create physical stresses on (male) clergy as this lifelong abstinence runs counter to the very forces God installed in his human creation.

The sexual deviance outcome, when taken into this context, is really not surprising.

Just a few thoughts.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'm a lot more prone to forgiving someone when they show that they want to be forgiven. It's a pretty clear indicator (to me) that they are thinking about more than just themselves.

Sweeping things under the rug suggests they have no faith at all in Christians like me, so all I can do is wait. And wait.

... And wait.