After a SHTF event, the meek inherit the Earth?

reply to post by Gazrok

I was thinking about this earlier today, that after a SHTF event, one segment of society that is best equipped to survive is the homeless population.

Indeed.

For most of us, the moment we lose electricity (A/C, TV, PC, etc.), the corner grocer, gasoline and cellphones... it's going to get real ugly, real fast. Those already acclimated to this will do better. They already have to scrounge so... they will definitely become the new professors of survival, lol.

Originally posted by BadbrotherRyan
The great thing about a SHTF event is that it will truly level the playing field.

The only true level playing field in this physical realm is where everyone is non-existent.

The rich won't lose their resources in SHTF. The poor won't suddenly have access to more resources in SHTF. Those with skills won't suddenly loose them, and those without skills won't suddenly gain some.
The physically disabled won't suddenly be healed and the non-disabled won't suddenly become disabled.
Those with guns won't suddenly find their guns missing and those without guns won't find themselves with a firearm.

I get the impression that people are still having mad-max fantasies (you want to talk about a meta-conspiracy we can start with this one) and looking at other recent SHTF events, I think you'll find that humanity has a lot more going for it than just "every-man-for-themselves" scenarios TPTB want you to be afraid of.

Was there mass looting and riots when massive parts of Indonesia was destroyed by the tsunami?
Was there mass looting and riots when Japan was hit with the earthquake and tsunami?
Was there mass looting and riots when Christchurch had the massive earthquake?

Originally posted by Gazrok
I was thinking about this earlier today, that after a SHTF event, one segment of society that is best equipped to survive is the homeless population.

Think about it, they always have what they need with them, they know how to find food, where to sleep, etc. in the urban wilderness. It just seems to me that these folks probably wouldn't find it that hard to adjust to a changed world. In addition, they won't be targeted too much, as they won't have much of interest to the criminals that would arise.

They are always on the move, and already have fellow survivor contacts, etc.

Just a thought, at least as far as things in a major city....of course, we could just see cities divided up into districts ruled by street gangs (likely).

Perhaps the homeless may be better off to survive, but as others have said, there is no definitive answer to what will happen everywhere across the USA. It's a BIG place. Chance are that it would break down into communities trying to survive.

As another said, every person on maintenance/health stuff (insulin etc.) will be wiped out if they cannot adapt.

For my part of the world, the homeless will probably be doing ok, but their resources they depend on (scraps/donations) will not be easy to get. I don't see the rich Filipino families going to help the homeless, they don't even do that on purpose today. It's a situation that would get ugly fast as 10million+ people try to flee to the countryside because they have no more bottled water or processed foods left in town.

In my current location, not much would change (I am far away from any large population). They would revert to tribal laws they already use, a system of elders etc. I would imagine mountain roads would be dynamited as well to prevent any outsiders coming in... Not that I think many outsiders (Philippine city folk) are physically capable for long distance mountain hiking. I have found it safest away from people, in the remote country

Edit: On a personal note I've lived without heat/ac for years. But to be fair, 1500 meters elevation makes it bearable. Future home will have no cell phone signal in a 300+ year old village of only a few hundred peeps

reply to post by kamebard

I get the impression that people are still having mad-max fantasies

Not at all...I like our modern life, and I simply want to preserve as much lifestyle as I can should things go south. I have no wish to actually have to depend on such preparations...just nice to know it's there. Besides, whether storms or unemployment, or even a water leak, I've had occasion to actually USE some of my prepping, which makes me glad for doing any I've done.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by kamebard

 

I get the impression that people are still having mad-max fantasies

Not at all...I like our modern life, and I simply want to preserve as much lifestyle as I can should things go south. I have no wish to actually have to depend on such preparations...just nice to know it's there.

The old prepper saying holds true:

"The fact that I bought homeowner's insurance doesn't mean I'd like to see my house go up in flames."


.

Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim

This is a nasty outlook you have.. most people did not choose to be homeless, they are down on they're luck by and large. The ones who I've known that chose to be homeless were some of the most self sufficient people I've ever met.

So they are the most self sufficient people you have met and are homeless but you also state that they are not homeless by choice. With the amount of programs available these days you pretty much have to make a decision to stay homeless.

Do you realize how much empty large printer cartridges are worth? Do you realize that office supply stores and places of that nature throw them away in piles? Guess who taught me that.. a non-conformist homeless guy, go figure.

Right EXACTLY. Now, since we ARE talking about survival, when there is nobody to throw away those cartridges and nowhere to turn them into money, they have nothing.

US consumers in general are parasites! Humans are parasites! Working you 9-5 that you hate doesn't make you a contributor to the good of society!

You honestly have no idea what I do for work and what I do with my free time. But im not on a computer posting on a commercial site posting about how horrible consumerism is.

"If people didn't thrwo away food they would perish". Listen to yourself! Down-trodden people forced to eat what the high class considers garbage but they're the "blight on society". They're not the ones throwing food away!

You are dancing around the topic at hand, if there is nobody to throw the food away- they don't eat.

Get real man, your entitled to your opinion but that reply was uncalled for.

edit on 25-2-2013 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)

Classic liberal double speak, "you have the right to an opinion, but you shouldn't have said that"

Originally posted by poloblack
I agree, Nephilim, and I think it's pretty sh!++y to come down on the less fortunate, as if most homeless people ''choose'' to be that way. But what would you expect from a tool who has serial killer Ted Bundy as his avatar?

So no real logical objection to what I have said, I have ted bundy as an avatar and im a "tooll". Bravo, the pinnacle of critical thinking

reply to post by Superhans


I said most people are not homeless by choice but I have met a few that are.

Right EXACTLY. Now, since we ARE talking about survival, when there is nobody to throw away those cartridges and nowhere to turn them into money, they have nothing.

Its called scavenging and not just homeless people that do it. Lots of people who aren't homeless scavenge, they dumpster dive and pick up furniture out of alleys. You want to see some serious scavenging, go to a big college town and watch how many people dumpster dive when semesters are over. Those rich kids throw away everything! Nice furniture, working computers, tv's, you name it.

Scavenging is a natural part of survival, it has always been in our nature to gather whatever it takes from wherever we can to survive. Your talking about the day when noone is throwing out printer cartridges or buying them, well lets go ahead and say that day is the same day people stop throwing food away, buying and selling it too.

When that day comes you will be in the depths of poverty like everyone around you. You won't be any better than the people your berating and that would even wipe the smile off of Ted Bundy's face.

Classic liberal double speak, "you have the right to an opinion, but you shouldn't have said that"

Some things are like that.. you could repeat the N-word and to me it wouldn't be as offensive as your initial post.

The reason why is repeating the N-word is just plain ignorance, your opinion of all homeless people is thought out though.

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim

Its called scavenging and not just homeless people that do it. Lots of people who aren't homeless scavenge, they dumpster dive and pick up furniture out of alleys. You want to see some serious scavenging, go to a big college town and watch how many people dumpster dive when semesters are over. Those rich kids throw away everything! Nice furniture, working computers, tv's, you name it.

Stop dancing around the issue, that Dumpster diving is pretty much useless a day or two after SHTF. Contrary to popular belief it does not take immeasurable intelligence to dumpster dive nor does is this intelligence only bestowed upon homeless people and hipsters. Like I said, once people stop throwing garbage in those dumpsters then they are useless. I find it funny that you mention going to a college town to dumpster dive because usually its the privileged college kids that are doing the dumpster diving as some sort of "activism".

Scavenging is a natural part of survival, it has always been in our nature to gather whatever it takes from wherever we can to survive. Your talking about the day when noone is throwing out printer cartridges or buying them, well lets go ahead and say that day is the same day people stop throwing food away, buying and selling it too.

When that day comes you will be in the depths of poverty like everyone around you. You won't be any better than the people your berating and that would even wipe the smile off of Ted Bundy's face.

Some things are like that.. you could repeat the N-word and to me it wouldn't be as offensive as your initial post.

The reason why is repeating the N-word is just plain ignorance, your opinion of all homeless people is thought out though.

You are really doing anything to avoid what we are talking about here aren't you?

reply to post by Superhans

You are really doing anything to avoid what we are talking about here aren't you?

Well if that aint the pot calling the kettle.. You typed up that whole paragraph and all you really said was hipsters dumpster dive too. Tons of people in different types of refurbishing businesses scavenge to support themselves.

I got a question for ya, since were all "hunter-gatherers" so to speak, deep down..

What do you think the difference is between "gathering" and "scavenging"? Were all early humans a bunch of bottom feeding moochers that took what was leftover by the animals? What is the formal line between those 2 things?

Can you you both agree that in a SHTF medium/long term situation there will be nothing of value in any dumpsters?
As I said earlier, I was a rough sleeper on the streets for 6 months of my life. I learned much from that experience but prefer to face any collapse of society from the much better resourced starting point I have right now in life.

reply to post by Gazrok


The mole people too. Those who have lived down in the underground of large cities.

reply to post by grainofsand

Can you you both agree that in a SHTF medium/long term situation there will be nothing of value in any dumpsters?
As I said earlier, I was a rough sleeper on the streets for 6 months of my life. I learned much from that experience but prefer to face any collapse of society from the much better resourced starting point I have right now in life.

I can agree that pretty soon into that situation, yes, the dumpsters will be empty. I wasn't trying to get off-topic with Hans and don't feel that I have. Scavenging and looting will be the way most people go for a good while. Those that are accustomed to a lifestyle of grabbing resources while looking over they're shoulders will be better at it.

Thats what the thread is about, not about how you would like to initiate this situation with resources stockpiled. If anything, that makes you more of a target than most others. If a couple of your "friends" know your stockpiling, your in trouble. If you tell 1 single neighbor trying to be kind, your in trouble.

Best to hit the ground running in a SHTF scenario, imo.

Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim
reply to post by grainofsand

 

Can you you both agree that in a SHTF medium/long term situation there will be nothing of value in any dumpsters?
As I said earlier, I was a rough sleeper on the streets for 6 months of my life. I learned much from that experience but prefer to face any collapse of society from the much better resourced starting point I have right now in life.

I can agree that pretty soon into that situation, yes, the dumpsters will be empty. I wasn't trying to get off-topic with Hans and don't feel that I have. Scavenging and looting will be the way most people go for a good while. Those that are accustomed to a lifestyle of grabbing resources while looking over they're shoulders will be better at it.

Thats what the thread is about, not about how you would like to initiate this situation with resources stockpiled. If anything, that makes you more of a target than most others. If a couple of your "friends" know your stockpiling, your in trouble. If you tell 1 single neighbor trying to be kind, your in trouble.

Best to hit the ground running in a SHTF scenario, imo.

I refer you back to my initial post in this thread...

Originally posted by grainofsand I spent 6 months sleeping the streets in a town where I knew no-one. The experience of rebuilding life from it's most basic with only a rucksack, while being unable to trust anyone or their true intentions, has obviously benefited me in navigating general life since. Being at my lowest point of homelessness at the start of a collapse of society would not be my first choice though. I would prefer a starting position with a better resourced network, from years of friendship in a stronger social group.

Starting any societal collapse while homeless in a town with no/few friends you can trust would be harder than starting such a situation in a strong social group, that is difficult to question. Perhaps you have not experienced true sustained homelessness yourself? I think your opinion would be different if you had.

*Edit*
The strong social groups with well fed and resourced males who are not battling addiction issues will have the strongest start. True dumpster diving homeless social groups are neither particularly strong, organised, or well fed and resourced.

reply to post by Gazrok


I disagree.

The homeless for a large part live off the generosity of others to a small extent and the spoils of society such as thrown out food and clothing.

What will they do when they can't pan handle because people have no money to give, soup kitchens have no food to give out? Their not really the Davey Crockett of their times they just scrounge what they can where they can and if it's not there they will suffer also.

Just remember, if you're used to not eating, this is nothing.

If you're used to eating 3 "square" meals a day (what a joke), have fun. And learn to adapt.

If there are any remote farmers here, hi, but I doubt this forum has many member with real experience on it, at least from what I know, and I know there are many regions of differences around the world.

It's a fair point, about homeless folks not being able to depend on others after a few days past a SHTF scenario.

What I mean is, they'll have more at hand survival knowledge in other areas...they'll know how to keep warm, where to sleep out of sight, and it won't be nearly as much of an adjustment to them. Mentally, they'll be a bit better equipped to deal with it, than say a person used to making 70K a year, who now has no power, etc. Also, one used to getting around by foot, will know where to find things within walking distance, and be more familiar with a neighborhood.

Originally posted by Gazrok
It's a fair point, about homeless folks not being able to depend on others after a few days past a SHTF scenario.

What I mean is, they'll have more at hand survival knowledge in other areas...they'll know how to keep warm, where to sleep out of sight, and it won't be nearly as much of an adjustment to them. Mentally, they'll be a bit better equipped to deal with it, than say a person used to making 70K a year, who now has no power, etc. Also, one used to getting around by foot, will know where to find things within walking distance, and be more familiar with a neighborhood.

You're absolutely right. The homeless may not be able to depend on others for as much, but being scavenger types they are more adept at finding (and knowing) things to eat.

As for your second point, the homeless again are probably ahead of the working class. They are adjusted and knowledgeable on where to find/make shelter away from harm. The adjustment of lifestyle in such a short time could probably be a shock in itself for many suicides.

Originally posted by Philippines
The adjustment of lifestyle in such a short time could probably be
a shock in itself for many suicides.

Indeed. During the last depression is was not the humble or meek
that were jumping out of office buildings.
The homeless can adapt just as pigeons and still go to
bed with at least some degree of moral consciousness.
(unlike wall st. money changers)

__________________

Can you think of specific skills the homeless would have?

Recent Poster mentioned sleeping out of sight. What are others?

-How to tell whether a building has been recently occupied?
(Windows opened or closed paradoxically with respect to temperature. No smoke, food smells, or fresh trash; footpaths leading to doors are beginning to regrow their grass)

-How to avoid security patrols?

-how to use parks, greenspaces and wetlands to cross a city while avoiding streets..