So all I wanna say is:
Rupert Murdoch apologists - please cry me a river about how us "FOX bashers" are making mountains out of innocent little molehills, or jumping on
the Media Matters bandwagon or whatever. This is just more calculated posturing FOX makes up to protect themselves from getting exposed on all their
BS. We're here on ATS to deny ignorance and uncover the truth behind the veil. Just because that truth happens to be something ugly you don't want
to look at doesn't make it any less true.
I understand FOX News is one of the sources that drew a lot of new members here, since it evidently became conspiracy theory central after Obama got
elected. Great - that's the only good thing that propaganda toilet ever did for you. Now that you've been introduced to the rabbit hole, if you ever
want to actually come inside it, you need to tear the Glenn Beck posters off your wall and deprogram yourselves first. Because otherwise you'll never
get past all the uncomfortable bits of reality you've been brainwashed into automatically rejecting as part of the "Liberal agenda" or whatever.
Denying ignorance first and foremost involves stepping past your ideological bias. That means you don't just justify all of the above because "MSNBC
does it too". I have no doubt that they do - but go ahead and PROVE IT: dig up primary, sourced information, apply critical thinking, logic and
resources that put it all together. Don't just mindlessly regurgitate some op-ed from some talking head hack who happens to appeal to your political
beliefs.
That's exactly how Steven Milloy and FOX News get away with it.
Here's 100% Proof That FOX News Are Straight Up Lying, Corporate Shills., page 1
Topic started on 10-2-2013 @ 12:53 PM by mc_squared
So the other day I started a thread on FOX News and their most recent hijacking of the facts, which they typically like to spin into fanatically
ignorant misinformation:
FOX News Talking Out Of Their You-Know-What On Solar Energy
This thread garnered some attention, most of which was in general agreement, but also managed to draw out quite a few Faux-apologists, who claimed the "expert" they had on just made an honest mistake (saying that Germany has a very successful solar program that the U.S. can't achieve because "they get a lot more Sun than we do", lol).
...
Anyway, this brings up a bigger existential dilemma that I'd like to address in this thread:
Is FOX News just making stupid (but innocent) mistakes, or are they straight up lying to you and pushing their own personal agenda?
I know most of us here will just look at their track record, for example through these ATS threads:
FOX NEWS Caught Distorting Reaction to Ron Pauls CPAC Win
Occupy Wall Street Activist Slams Fox News Producer In Un-Aired Interview
Fox news holiday card. Our sheeple are the best!
And just say "well duh" - there is a very obvious campaign of misinformation + manipulation of public opinion going on. But for those of you who still don't get it, or simply don't want to get it, I'd like to show you a piece of very explicit proof I stumbled upon while doing research for another topic:
Our story starts 20 years ago, when Tobacco companies were furiously trying to fight off all the bad publicity they were getting from scientific research that linked smoking to lung cancer.
Public opinion was being swayed, government regulation was on the horizon - and so one of the strategies Big Tobacco adopted was to create all these fake scientific front groups to question the consensus scientific opinion, seed doubt amongst the general public, and lobby the government towards inaction. One of these organizations was called The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC). We know this now because we have all sorts of (formerly secret) industry documents that were released due to the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement.
Thanks to this repository of insider information, we can access previously undisclosed correspondence between Philip Morris and a PR firm called APCO for example, which details how they conspired to create TASSC:
Source
Also check out some of TASSC's specific "Goals and Objectives", outlined here:
Namely the part about forging alliances, working with reporters, etc, to get the public to question the validity of scientific studies.
So how does this tie into FOX News? Well before we get to that, take note of one more thing - the use of "sound science" in TASSC's title. This was part of a "sound science" versus "junk science" rhetorical device commonly used amongst the industry. As Sourcewatch explains:
OK, now come meet Steven Milloy - the administrator of a website called junkscience.com, and a regularly featured "expert" on all things "junk science" on FOX News:
Here he is talking about the Climategate so-called "scandal" for example:
Here are numerous articles written by him featured on FOX News' website:
foxnews.com Junk Science Archive
Notice from the titles alone how antagonistic all those pieces are towards issues of public health, the EPA, environmentalism, clean energy, etc.
This man is a shill. But you probably think I'm just implying that based on some convenient coincidences over the term "junk science" right? Or that I'm basing some very serious accusations on flimsy semantic connections that ultimately prove absolutely nothing, yes?
Think again.
Because we're only laying the foundation here, so let's start pouring some concrete:
Go back to The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition - the group we've already proven through court-released documents was a corporate PR front group created by the Tobacco industry to question the validity of scientific studies. Take a wild guess who their Executive Director is:
*drumroll*
Source
So there you have it: Steven Milloy is a PROVEN corporate fraud, strictly hired and paid to undermine legitimate scientific research on issues of public health, safety and the environment. And he is the "expert" FOX News brings on air toquestion chastise and denounce these
very things!
This goes way beyond just smoking too, because once TASSC was exposed as a no longer useful tobacco-shilling firm, it was renamed The Advancement of Sound Science "Center" (what a clever disguise!) and adopted instead by the fossil fuel industry (Source). Steven meanwhile has a long history of lobbying for all sorts of shady companies with poor track records on environmental and public health:
Source.
So there's no question about it - the man is a clear cut bonafide shill. If FOX News had any integrity whatsoever, they wouldn't let him anywhere near a microphone - yet instead they constantly give this guy a soap box to exploit and spew his propaganda from. They aren't just guilty by association either, they've done this so many times, so blatantly - combine this with their own leaked internal documents that reveal strategies like this and this and it's quite OBVIOUS what their agenda is.
At least to anyone not stuck inside the echo chamber with them that is.
FOX News Talking Out Of Their You-Know-What On Solar Energy
This thread garnered some attention, most of which was in general agreement, but also managed to draw out quite a few Faux-apologists, who claimed the "expert" they had on just made an honest mistake (saying that Germany has a very successful solar program that the U.S. can't achieve because "they get a lot more Sun than we do", lol).
...
Anyway, this brings up a bigger existential dilemma that I'd like to address in this thread:
Is FOX News just making stupid (but innocent) mistakes, or are they straight up lying to you and pushing their own personal agenda?
I know most of us here will just look at their track record, for example through these ATS threads:
FOX NEWS Caught Distorting Reaction to Ron Pauls CPAC Win
Occupy Wall Street Activist Slams Fox News Producer In Un-Aired Interview
Fox news holiday card. Our sheeple are the best!
And just say "well duh" - there is a very obvious campaign of misinformation + manipulation of public opinion going on. But for those of you who still don't get it, or simply don't want to get it, I'd like to show you a piece of very explicit proof I stumbled upon while doing research for another topic:
Our story starts 20 years ago, when Tobacco companies were furiously trying to fight off all the bad publicity they were getting from scientific research that linked smoking to lung cancer.
Public opinion was being swayed, government regulation was on the horizon - and so one of the strategies Big Tobacco adopted was to create all these fake scientific front groups to question the consensus scientific opinion, seed doubt amongst the general public, and lobby the government towards inaction. One of these organizations was called The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC). We know this now because we have all sorts of (formerly secret) industry documents that were released due to the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement.
Thanks to this repository of insider information, we can access previously undisclosed correspondence between Philip Morris and a PR firm called APCO for example, which details how they conspired to create TASSC:
Source
Also check out some of TASSC's specific "Goals and Objectives", outlined here:
Namely the part about forging alliances, working with reporters, etc, to get the public to question the validity of scientific studies.
So how does this tie into FOX News? Well before we get to that, take note of one more thing - the use of "sound science" in TASSC's title. This was part of a "sound science" versus "junk science" rhetorical device commonly used amongst the industry. As Sourcewatch explains:
While the phrase "junk science" is used by corporations, governments and front groups to discredit public interest and consumer activists, the phrase "sound science" is employed to describe the research said to back-up industry's own claims on safety and risk.
OK, now come meet Steven Milloy - the administrator of a website called junkscience.com, and a regularly featured "expert" on all things "junk science" on FOX News:
Here he is talking about the Climategate so-called "scandal" for example:
Here are numerous articles written by him featured on FOX News' website:
foxnews.com Junk Science Archive
Notice from the titles alone how antagonistic all those pieces are towards issues of public health, the EPA, environmentalism, clean energy, etc.
This man is a shill. But you probably think I'm just implying that based on some convenient coincidences over the term "junk science" right? Or that I'm basing some very serious accusations on flimsy semantic connections that ultimately prove absolutely nothing, yes?
Think again.
Because we're only laying the foundation here, so let's start pouring some concrete:
Go back to The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition - the group we've already proven through court-released documents was a corporate PR front group created by the Tobacco industry to question the validity of scientific studies. Take a wild guess who their Executive Director is:
*drumroll*
Source
So there you have it: Steven Milloy is a PROVEN corporate fraud, strictly hired and paid to undermine legitimate scientific research on issues of public health, safety and the environment. And he is the "expert" FOX News brings on air to
This goes way beyond just smoking too, because once TASSC was exposed as a no longer useful tobacco-shilling firm, it was renamed The Advancement of Sound Science "Center" (what a clever disguise!) and adopted instead by the fossil fuel industry (Source). Steven meanwhile has a long history of lobbying for all sorts of shady companies with poor track records on environmental and public health:
Though Milloy denies ever having been a lobbyist, Milloy shows up in federal lobbying registration data for 1997 as having expenditures on his behalf, indicating his firm, the EOP Group, believed him to be an active lobbyist. The same federal records indicate Milloy represented the American Petroleum Institute, FMC Corp, Fort Howard, International Food Additives Council, and Monsanto.
Source.
So there's no question about it - the man is a clear cut bonafide shill. If FOX News had any integrity whatsoever, they wouldn't let him anywhere near a microphone - yet instead they constantly give this guy a soap box to exploit and spew his propaganda from. They aren't just guilty by association either, they've done this so many times, so blatantly - combine this with their own leaked internal documents that reveal strategies like this and this and it's quite OBVIOUS what their agenda is.
At least to anyone not stuck inside the echo chamber with them that is.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 01:04 PM by ollncasino
reply to post by mc_squared
Pretty much all the networks are lying, corporate shills with an agenda.
Some of them are just better at hiding it.
Pretty much all the networks are lying, corporate shills with an agenda.
Some of them are just better at hiding it.
They all
seem to end in the same place.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 03:15 PM by mc_squared
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
Word.
I get that this thread is mostly "tell us something we don't know" and preaching to the choir anyway, but it just continues to numb my brain to see people on ATS defend this level of obvious propaganda like they did in the other thread.
Sure, everybody does it to some extent, but FOX News like to take it to a whole new extreme from what I've seen. Most media outlets like to squeeze in little white lies here and there, subtley tack on conjecture and personal opinion to the coattails of actual facts, but News Corp brings in obvious, paid off shills and makes unbelievably stupid statements like "Germany gets more Sun than the U.S. - that's why they can pursue viable solar power".
And although I agree MSM entities from the other side are certainly guilty of their own crimes, I still think it's a complete cop-out to just hang your hat on that. I'm as cynical about the MSM in general as any other conspiracy...ummm..."enthusiast"... but I think it's a dangerous proposition, and a slippery slope, to just exclusively follow ones own suppositions like that. That's precisely what leads to ideological biases and misinformation, no matter how genuine your initial intentions might be.
At the end of the day, we're all brainwashed and biased to some extent - that starts from birth - so sorting through the riff-raff is a complicated feat. But putting humility and critical thinking above ideology is key. Employing cynicism masked as skepticism, or taking up firm positions in the center doesn't necessarily make anyone automatically more objective.
If anything I want to at least make an example out of this thread - to show what kind of information comes out, and how it comes together, when you investigate primary sources, really get to the bottom, and then work your way back up. You might come out a different person than when you started, but at least (hopefully) it'll set you free...
Word.
I get that this thread is mostly "tell us something we don't know" and preaching to the choir anyway, but it just continues to numb my brain to see people on ATS defend this level of obvious propaganda like they did in the other thread.
Sure, everybody does it to some extent, but FOX News like to take it to a whole new extreme from what I've seen. Most media outlets like to squeeze in little white lies here and there, subtley tack on conjecture and personal opinion to the coattails of actual facts, but News Corp brings in obvious, paid off shills and makes unbelievably stupid statements like "Germany gets more Sun than the U.S. - that's why they can pursue viable solar power".
And although I agree MSM entities from the other side are certainly guilty of their own crimes, I still think it's a complete cop-out to just hang your hat on that. I'm as cynical about the MSM in general as any other conspiracy...ummm..."enthusiast"... but I think it's a dangerous proposition, and a slippery slope, to just exclusively follow ones own suppositions like that. That's precisely what leads to ideological biases and misinformation, no matter how genuine your initial intentions might be.
At the end of the day, we're all brainwashed and biased to some extent - that starts from birth - so sorting through the riff-raff is a complicated feat. But putting humility and critical thinking above ideology is key. Employing cynicism masked as skepticism, or taking up firm positions in the center doesn't necessarily make anyone automatically more objective.
If anything I want to at least make an example out of this thread - to show what kind of information comes out, and how it comes together, when you investigate primary sources, really get to the bottom, and then work your way back up. You might come out a different person than when you started, but at least (hopefully) it'll set you free...
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 07:02 PM by NeoVain
reply to post by mc_squared
Most of us don´t need this amount of overwhelming evidence of their efforts to dumb down the people and spew propaganda for the establishment, but i appreciate your thread for the ones less fortunate in the cognitive department...
However, even after this thread, i bet there will still be a few not "getting it", those guys are pretty hopeless, don´t waste too much time on them.
Most of us don´t need this amount of overwhelming evidence of their efforts to dumb down the people and spew propaganda for the establishment, but i appreciate your thread for the ones less fortunate in the cognitive department...
However, even after this thread, i bet there will still be a few not "getting it", those guys are pretty hopeless, don´t waste too much time on them.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 07:30 PM by mc_squared
reply to post by SpaDe_
Great - but how about YOU go find that proof, since you're the one making the accusation. This is exactly the response I expected from people, and I am completely open to it and can't wait to see what you guys come up with.
But how about everybody stop telling me how much the other
side does it too and go show me now.
Show me some real, explicit, bare bones proof of this fraud like I promised and delivered in this thread. If you just google some link to FOX News saying wah wah liberal media bias wah George Soros wah it's not going to carry much weight I'm afraid. I totally believe it's out there - so how about someone do their own homework instead of demanding I do it for them?
Great - but how about YOU go find that proof, since you're the one making the accusation. This is exactly the response I expected from people, and I am completely open to it and can't wait to see what you guys come up with.
But how about everybody stop telling me how much the other
side does it too and go show me now. Show me some real, explicit, bare bones proof of this fraud like I promised and delivered in this thread. If you just google some link to FOX News saying wah wah liberal media bias wah George Soros wah it's not going to carry much weight I'm afraid. I totally believe it's out there - so how about someone do their own homework instead of demanding I do it for them?
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 08:12 PM by SpaDe_
Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by SpaDe_
Great - but how about YOU go find that proof, since you're the one making the accusation. This is exactly the response I expected from people, and I am completely open to it and can't wait to see what you guys come up with.
Show me some real, explicit, bare bones proof of this fraud like I promised and delivered in this thread. If you just google some link to FOX News saying wah wah liberal media bias wah George Soros wah it's not going to carry much weight I'm afraid. I totally believe it's out there - so how about someone do their own homework instead of demanding I do it for them?
Ok,
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 09:37 PM by mc_squared
reply to post by SpaDe_
Nice. I'll give you a star for the CNN Gulf War vid alone. I forgot I've actually seen that one before - pretty epic lol. I'll have to find some time to watch the other ones properly, but in the meantime will add one of my own favourites onto the fire:
Don't know how legit it is because it's one man's version of a probably bitter divorce, but definitely something to consider in light of other evidence.
So this is all I ask really I guess - people back up their claims with a little substance. I think one of the biggest problems on ATS is unfortunately how much conjecture and groupthink rules the roost around here. People will just believe something because everybody else says it too. I know plenty of claims that can easily be debunked, but are treated like gospel on ATS just because everyone goes around repeating them over and over. That's why it gets irritating seeing post after post of the same claim without any actual evidence to back it up.
Even when it's something seemingly obvious like the MSM is full of crap, it still doesn't really show much for "denying ignorance" when we're all going around repeating these memes like a bunch of automatons ourselves.
Anyway, thanks for contributing.
Nice. I'll give you a star for the CNN Gulf War vid alone. I forgot I've actually seen that one before - pretty epic lol. I'll have to find some time to watch the other ones properly, but in the meantime will add one of my own favourites onto the fire:
Don't know how legit it is because it's one man's version of a probably bitter divorce, but definitely something to consider in light of other evidence.
So this is all I ask really I guess - people back up their claims with a little substance. I think one of the biggest problems on ATS is unfortunately how much conjecture and groupthink rules the roost around here. People will just believe something because everybody else says it too. I know plenty of claims that can easily be debunked, but are treated like gospel on ATS just because everyone goes around repeating them over and over. That's why it gets irritating seeing post after post of the same claim without any actual evidence to back it up.
Even when it's something seemingly obvious like the MSM is full of crap, it still doesn't really show much for "denying ignorance" when we're all going around repeating these memes like a bunch of automatons ourselves.
Anyway, thanks for contributing.
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