If God is Almighty then.....

Why didn't he just create us to have faith in just one religeon? If he were so almighty why did he create so many barriers skin/culture/religeon?

Im bring this up because I'm tired of people trying to convert me and asking me were my faith lies with god. I go to church and the same guy approaches me every sunday and asks why Im not inside church I tell him that I don't believe in god and Im forced to go to church by my parents. But the man keeps on insisting that I should have some bit of faith in god since he created me and the Earth all this other jiberish the guy keeps on talking about. Then I tell him if your god is so mighty why does he even bother with people like me why wont your god just vanish me from the face of the earth?


Is their anyone out there with the same type of situation like mine? Whos boarder line atheist ?

Simply because God gave man free will. Man is free to choose his own religion, make a new one, or even not to have one. Ah, the beauty of free will.

Free will.....correct me if im wrong but didn't god want us to be "Good" people and only that, Just look what happen to adam and eve. Didn't they piss off "God" for disobeying him becuase of their free will??

If you really want to know read the Bible, the answers to all your questions are in there.
Read it, then you can make up your own mind, with the little freewill you have left.
God gave us freedom, but man taketh away.

Originally posted by THX 1138
Free will.....correct me if im wrong but didn't god want us to be "Good" people and only that,

You're wrong, if God is actually what he's cracked up to be.

But that depends a lot on which "God" you're talking about. There are many spirits who go by that name, and many, many more who claim to speak on their behalf and usurp whatever authority said gods might actually have.

If by "God" you mean the Creator, then I am as certain as I can be that Darkness and Evil are very deliberate parts of the equation.

Originally posted by THX 1138
Just look what happen to adam and eve. Didn't they piss off "God" for disobeying him becuase of their free will??

Again, that depends on who or what you believe, and obviously opinions vary among people who may otherwise profess to the same beliefs.

Assuming that Adam and Eve ever actually existed, which is by no means certain, I find it somewhat insulting to suggest that a God who is supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful and all-present wouldn't have a fairly good idea how the whole "Garden of Eden" thing was going to turn out -- especially since God is reputed to be able to see and reveal the future (aka classic concepts of "prophecy").

But then, maybe God really does have the personality of a spoiled two-year-old. Who knows?

Cutting To The Chase

My advice in all spiritual matters is to look within and know yourself first and foremost. If you don't know who you are, then nothing else you know really has any meaning.

This may not seem obvious at first, but becomes much clearer over time. I believe that denying the truth of who we really are is the real "original sin", and all this is a consequence of that.

Secondly, be skeptical of everything and use the vital tool of reason the Creator gave you to find out more about you and everything around you. Anyone who is trying to get you to believe something without reasonable cause is trying to deceive you. Remember that.

Always question assumptions, trust your feelings as a guide to right and wrong, and never let fear be a motive for your beliefs.

But more important than anything is to remember to be true to yourself, and never let anyone else intimidate you into believing that which you feel is false. To do so is to enter into the service of another for the worst of reasons.

Of course, that's just my advice. Your path is yours to choose and entirely unique to you. Enjoy it!




[edit on 10/29/2004 by Majic]

Originally posted by THX 1138
Free will.....correct me if im wrong but didn't god want us to be "Good" people and only that, Just look what happen to adam and eve. Didn't they piss off "God" for disobeying him becuase of their free will??

No, God wanted us to have free will... He gave us free reign in the garden we got to name everything, we held the keys to the earth, and he told us do not eat the apples from that one tree, the rest is yours... sure enough they ate the apples and were vanquished from the garden, because now the devil had the keys to the earth because he convinced us to go against gods word... then God sent himself down to earth in the form of Jesus, who died for us on the cross, and regained the keys to the earth by overcoming the devil and sin, which he then gave us back the keys to our own destiny, but through him, so this way we could never lose this battle, because we can always ask for forgiveness and recieve it. God wants us to be good, yes, but he doesn't want mindless robots!

Depends on your take on the Bible.

Me l believe that you live your life the best you can and you decide your fate when and if there is a heaven or hell.If you kill or live life in a way that is wrong on earth l believe you stand a better chance of going to hell.
I prefer not to live as the bible teaches as l have a free will and can decide what is right or wrong.A truelly good person dosn`t follow the rules just because the bible states this is the only way to heaven.
I don`t believe in following any religious faith as they are about attracting people to follow them and scaring them into believeing.
The catholic church is everything that Jesus was against.If you follow the message jesus was trying to get accross we should live without material wealth,look after ourselves and strangers,help people who are suffering.The cathoilic church and the huge population of people don`t live as this.This in my eyes is too faced.
I`ve been to church surrounded by people who are wealthy.They get preached to on this subject of respecting each other giving your wealth to the poor and needy.Then they send around the collection basket and it is full of small change.Then people leave in there flash cars pass shelters for the homless and go strat to resturants for lunch and they thank themselves that they don`t have to worry where there next meal is coming from.Do they use there wealth or does any of us jump on a plane and go to countries were children are starving or people are killing themselves.No.but people who just cos they read the bible believe it go to church regular prey are going to heaven.I fear the chances of getting into the club are more strict than that.I think actions speak load than words.Members of Aid agencies and people prepared to put there life at risk for the good of others are more likely to be judged and enter heaven

IF THERE IS A GOD AND A HEAVEN AND HELL.

You`ll find out when you die just be a good person and every time you have the oppertunity to help someone in need don`t walk past give everything you can.


[edit on 30-10-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

[edit on 30-10-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

[edit on 31-10-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

Heres a better thought. If god is almighty why did he create us knowing full forward that some of us would reject him and go to hell to burn forever? Why would a god who loves us so much let us burn in hell? Why not just come out and show himself to the world plainly and save million of lives from suffering?

Because he doesn't exist!

Invention by man to control man.

If god were almighty he would not of needed to have anyone die for salvation, wouldn't of needed anything sacrificed to him....an omnipotent god wouldn't of needed a lot of things her required.

Originally posted by LadyV
If god were almighty he would not of needed to have anyone die for salvation, wouldn't of needed anything sacrificed to him....an omnipotent god wouldn't of needed a lot of things her required.

Why not? He died for us not Himself. We couldn't save ourselves because we are just mere mortals. He needed a perfect sacrifice.

Love can forbear, and Love can forgive.....but Love can never be reconciled to an unlovely object.....He can never therefore be reconciled to your sin, because sin itself is incapable of being altered; but He may be reconciled to your person, because that may be restored. TRAHERNE, Centuries of Meditation.

It would, no doubt, bave been possible for God to remove by miracle the results of the first sin ever committed by a human being; but this would not have been much good unless He was prepared to remove the results of the second sin, and of the third, and so on forever. If the miracles ceased, then sooner or later we might have reached our present lamentable situation: if they did not, then a world thus continually underpropped and corrected by Divine interference, would have been a world in which nothing important ever depended on human choice, and in which choice itself would soon cease from the certainty that one of the apparent alternatives before you would lead to no results and was therefore not really an alternative. As we saw, the chess player's freedom to play chess depends on the rigidity of the squares and the moves. CS.LEWIS The Problem of Pain chapter 5.

I would have to address your initial question more then answer it, think instead why didn�t he create us to have faith in him void of any spiritual leaders to �tell us� what to believe. I won�t state blatantly that religion is an opiate for the masses or anything too extreme but it�s a bunch of BS IMO. The bible come on guys all we are talking here is mythology so hey if you want a good story to go to bed to by all means. The bible is about as reliable as telling him to read Greek or Roman Mythology or hey why not Ancient Egyptian� I could go one but I think the point was made.

THX let me tell you a little about myself! My father was Baptist my mother Lutheran; I was baptized Lutheran and went to church every Sunday. I started to question organized religion around the age of 15 or 16. My sophomore year I transferred to an all boys catholic school church every wed. By junior year in High School I was so engrossed in every religion that I could find. I wished to learn all about them and I came to a realization why one. See I didn�t want to question religion with no true knowledge on the issue; instead I read everything and learned so much. Is one belief in the Supreme Being that much more or less absurd then the next? I came to my answer and it was a simple no! Little side note I also went to a Methodist college.

For a while I thought might it be that a supreme being is a fabrication a source of strength for people then I thought more. Where did I find the answer what religion was it to be honest none. Instead I found it in Philosophy that was my answer. I found my faith in a supreme being on my own terms. Not some structured belief passed down from generation to generation but what I truly thought.

Don�t ever let the blind lead your way. I learned quickly that people of one religion were actually afraid to ever give another belief a chance. This is in my encounters and does not apply to all. To be honest while attending my catholic High School I met a very interesting priest. He was a priest, a psychologist, and a war veteran and not a clergy member in the war a real front line type. He was truly open minded and accepted others; however for every person like him I met there was a few hundred of the opposite. Really can we blame them though imagine devoting your life to a belief and finding out it was all a sham.

THX if you are so inclined pick up some philosophy see what some of the great minds have to say. To suggest two real quick I would have to say The Five Proofs of God according to Thomas Aquinas and The Existence of God as described by Anselm of Canterbury. You can exchange God and a Supreme Being in both of these works. However for that guy that bothers you all the time you might want to read a little Nietzsche Death of God would be a good start give you a little debate material next time he comes at you.

That�s all for now if you ever have any question about philosophy don�t hesitate to ask it was not my major in college rather a passion similar to mythology. My major was actually Psychology incase anyone was curious. Also any that I might have offended apologies and keep in mind that this is not a fact based argument instead it is an opinion based one. So yes all of this is in fact my OPINION!!!

Originally posted by favouriteslave
If god is almighty why did he create us knowing full forward that some of us would reject him and go to hell to burn forever? Why would a god who loves us so much let us burn in hell? Why not just come out and show himself to the world plainly and save million of lives from suffering?

I believe that it is all a matter of perspective. When people blame God for suffering in this world, they are only looking at one reality. It's quite possible that our human lives are only a single footstep in an eternal walk, but we place too much emphasis on our immediate self-comfort. For all we know, our existence here is only a stepping stone to something greater.
We are the ones who should be making this world a better place for our fellow man - not God. When you blame God for the ills of the world, you are placing blame on the wrong doorstep. All ills have been created by man himself.

I try not to worry about what comes next - there is no point in trying to out-think God. Life should be about the here and now. Choose the way in which you want to go forward.
Does a caterpillar know that it is going to turn into a butterfly?

I'm in a similar situation. My parents used to force me to go to church until I told them I didn't want to go because I don't believe in God. I'm 13 and this kinda scared them so now i'm in control. There also afraid of what I do on ATS because they think its some sort of atheist site!

Originally posted by THX 1138
Why didn't he just create us to have faith in just one religeon?

That sort of gets in the way of free will. I think Bruce Almighty was a good movie. At one point Jim Carrey says "How do you make somebody love you without affecting free will?"

I am sorry you feel the way you do. I have been on both sides of the fence. All I know is that when you get closer to God you can feel it. You can feel it in your heart and after that you just know. You can't imagine, understand, or believe it until you feel it.

If you seek God out you will find him and if you seek the answers then you will find them. I have found out first hand out how true that statement really is.

[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

None of us are any better than another. No one can be good enough to get into heaven. We can't do it. We have to be forgiven. Jesus died to give us that forgiveness. Even the worst of human beings can be forgiven.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
No, God wanted us to have free will... He gave us free reign in the garden we got to name everything, we held the keys to the earth, and he told us do not eat the apples from that one tree, the rest is yours... sure enough they ate the apples and were vanquished from the garden

Ok, say there is a God, and Adam, Eve, and the Tree of Knowledge actually exsisted... What is the first thing someone does when they're told NOT to do something? They go and do the very thing they were told not to do...
Sounds like a complete set-up to me...If he didn't want them eating from that tree, then why was it put there?

Originally posted by THX 1138
Free will.....correct me if im wrong but didn't god want us to be "Good" people and only that, Just look what happen to adam and eve. Didn't they piss off "God" for disobeying him becuase of their free will??

In response to your initial question, "God" didn't create religion or cultures--man did. God is the cause and source of spirituality but not religion. Religion IMO, is man's perversion of pure spirituality, and if God had human emotions, It would be seriously offended by how warped The Truth is thanks to us.
God, as in the force that causes all things to exist, is not the gods of the Old Testament. They are described as being vengeful, they do things they later regret, and they only care about the 12 tribes of Israel that they designated as their "chosen ones".
There are some beautiful and wise depictions of God in the Old Testament which I feel were written by those few who were truely enlightened by Its power, but no one ever acknowledges these passages.

As for why Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden...it had nothing to do with the fact that they had disobeyed God. They were kicked out because after they took of the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil they became like the gods themselves and the gods were afraid because they knew that if Adam and Eve also ate of the tree of Life they would become immortal and be equals with the gods. Since the gods wanted mankind to remain inferior to them, so they could be worshipped and obeyed, they kicked them out into the earth (and as far away from the tree of Life as possible). Don't believe me??? Read it for yourself...
KJV
Genesis 3
1: Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2: And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
...
21: Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086.../modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=3&division=d iv1

In the beginning God walked with Adam and Eve. They broke that relationship with Him and sin resulted and infected man. Sin distorts and lies and causes division etc. They were deceived into thinking that God did not know what He is talking about. We are getting a taste of what a world and universe is like without God's ways in full force. This will only last for a certain period of time before He reclaims all creation fully. After going through this man will never again be able to say God doesn't know what He is doing.

THX 1138,

Im an athiest. Ive been in this argument with my friend for years and he is constantly trying to 'recruit' me. I cant give you a perfect answer only the reasoning I have applied to the subject. Free will is a tough topic.

My argument is, If all time and history are known to God then can I do something God wouldnt expect? No. Did he know what Adam and Eve would do? Yes. Did he create the Angels? Yes. Did he create the Devil/Serpent? Yes. Did he create everything knowing full well what would happen? Yes.

Now do you have free will? Id have to say no. No matter what you or I try to do in life its going to turn out as God planned it. There's no escaping it, we're trapped. This doesnt appeal to me in the least and I cant wrap my head around where free will fits into that sort of scenario. Nonetheless Christianity somehow seems to find free will in there.

The only advice I can give is this. Know yourself and in so doing you will understand your fellow man. Be good to yourself and dont tread on others. Make sure you can live with yourself and your decisions as one day God or not you will be judged, if only by yourself. This is common sense.

No matter what you believe, im pretty sure that the Divine, Loving, Forgiving and Understanding God, if there is one, will be able to understand why you made the choices you did.

The biggest peice of advice I can give is this. DO NOT Base any of your beliefs on fear, especially of the unknown and especially on the inevitable unknowns. Fear based beliefs are still holding back our true potential.