UK and Algeria

is it pure coincidence that UK PM is in Algeria forming a new tag team?

is it pure coincidence this comes a week or so after an alleged hostage crisis in In Almeras oil plant?

This hostage situation was purely criminal - why was it treated like a terrorist attck? Why did they say Al Quada attacked the staff at an oil base because of French action in Mali? If AQ wanted to attack an oil base, why didn't they blow it up at 3am and run away instead of getting themselves all killed?

Did the UK set this up to form an alliance in North Africa ? seeing as they have no other alliances on that continent... so far only the French have footsteps / allies in Africa - what are the Brits upto?

Algeria has been tied to the UK though the EUs Euro-Mediterranean Partnership since 95 and through NATOs Mediterranean Dialogue since 2000. So no the UK did not do this to make an ally out of nation that already has been an ally for 15 years. In fact the Algerians go in shooting has put some strain on it.

I assume by “Al Quada” you actually mean “Al-Qa’ida”.

And no the UK government did not have any part in the recent hostage crises they have long been allies of Algeria.

US Brits aren’t up to anything so don’t worry.

It is a shame that you have written this as your first thread.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


The brits aren't up to anything? wow what a statement - so how have the UK and Algeria been such close allies for so long? In 1992 when Algeria was engulfed in a dirty bloody civil war where 100,000 lives were lost at the hands of the Algerian govt, where were the Brits? Where were the west when all these civil liberties were lost to Islamic war - oh oh oh hold on...selling guns - thats as far as they were friends - it was only 2011 when Algeria started treating their citizens as people because wait for it - hussein, gaddafi, Assad were all on the radar and Algeria was next.

Last week when the hostage situation was occuring, Cameron was bitching like hell because Algeria didn't ask his advice and went in alone - Cameron lost the plot then what happened - all shake handies again - and you Brits aren't up to anything.......

reply to post by MrSpad


you think the ALgerians going all guns blazing put some strain on relations.......

you are right about the bare threaded strings attaching the UK to Algeria through the EU - like Britain had any choice in it

the fact remains (as i have just mentioned) the only ties the UK had with Algeria was the sale on guns which led to 100,000 deaths over 10 years.

This is a site for conspiracists not apologists..

Nice little theory there dude .

But believe it or not contrary to what the internet might tell you there does exist these nasty people called terrorists, they have been around for years and they do nasty things like blow up building and take hostages. Just like earlier this month a group of these nasty people took a whole load of hostages, some were British. That is why good O’l dave lost the plot because the Algerians could have got a lot of brits dead and he wanted them to hold off and let the SAS and GIGN do the job.

Ohhh and guess what, these nasty men, these terrorists they don’t work for the British state.

Really I know its amazing but evil people actually do exist.

Once you understand that you might actually start to learn something about the real big bad world.

Nice little theory there dude .

But believe it or not contrary to what the internet might tell you there does exist these nasty people called terrorists, they have been around for years and they do nasty things like blow up building and take hostages. Just like earlier this month a group of these nasty people took a whole load of hostages, some were British. That is why good O’l dave lost the plot because the Algerians could have got a lot of brits dead and he wanted them to hold off and let the SAS and GIGN do the job.

Ohhh and guess what, these nasty men, these terrorists they don’t work for the British state.

Really I know its amazing but evil people actually do exist.

Once you understand that you might actually start to learn something about the real big bad world.

no one said terrorists don't exist - the question is "who are these terrorists?"

do you really belive the news? Do you really think Bin Laden was the leader of a world wide network of Islamists all set to kill the infidel for no reason except to place Sharia Law on the whole world? Do youreally belive they killed Bin Laden and dumped him in the sea?

If he was so beloved by millions of extremists - where are the revenge attacks? the reprisals?

Do you think the White House / Pentagon gave all the details of the operation to Hollywood verbatim to go make a film about it?

More propaganda and you fell for it

reply to post by erebh

the question is "who are these terrorists?"

Assuming you mean the guys responsible for the hostage taking the BP facility in Algeria they were members of the al-Mua'qi'oon Biddam Brigade an off shot of Al-Qa’ida In the Islamic Maghreb their leader is believed to be some dude called Mokhtar belomokhtar.

do you really belive the news?

nope!

Do you really think Bin Laden was the leader of a world wide network of Islamists all set to kill the infidel for no reason except to place Sharia Law on the whole world?

If by that you mean do I believe there existed a terrorist network called Al-Qa’ida that was led by Osama Bin Laden then yes I do.

Do youreally belive they killed Bin Laden and dumped him in the sea?

yup!

If he was so beloved by millions of extremists - where are the revenge attacks? the reprisals?

Just because its not happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t, a few attacks have been prevented.

Do you think the White House / Pentagon gave all the details of the operation to Hollywood verbatim to go make a film about it?

No

More propaganda and you fell for it

no i didnt, I just dont buy into your propaganda

Originally posted by erebh

do you really belive the news? Do you really think Bin Laden was the leader of a world wide network of Islamists all set to kill the infidel for no reason except to place Sharia Law on the whole world? Do youreally belive they killed Bin Laden and dumped him in the sea?

Do I think BL was the leader of a global network? Yeah, sure. I don't think it was anywhere near as structured as the PTB liked to make out though. And yeah, I do think their aim was to spread hardlined Islam around the world - ridiculous a notion as that is.

Do I think BL was killed and dumped in the sea? I think he's been 'eliminated'. I'm not convinced he's dead, but he's captured at the very least. If he wasn't, AQ would be rushing to put him on television. I don't buy the theory he died a few years ago.

As for the apparant lack of reprisals - there have been reprisals, but mainly in the Muslim heartlands. I think the back of AQ has been broken by a combination of eliminating leaders and closing off the financial tap. What we have now is a much less co-ordinated and demoralised loose collection of jihadi groups who no longer have the ability to strike at the West directly - providing Wester security doesn't get sloppy, of course.

i don't understand how you think "AQ" dont have the finances for Western reprisals - seriously folks - how much did it cost to take down the twin towers? a few budget airline tickets max. There are enough extremists already in the US, guns can be bought on any street corner for less than a Big Mac.

If this AQ worldwide network is so fantastic, where are the leaders? why weren't they in place? Even the boy scouts have ranks and people ready to take over after off-the-radar events

I believe if BL was not taken out of the game, his so called followers in the ME would be showing him on tv night and day. But also I don't believe he was dumped in the sea - rather he is alive and well and living off his US state pension some place.

reply to post by erebh




The UK has close ties right accross Africa, what the hell are you talking about? At least 19 African nations are part of the Commonwealth.

a lot of good it's done them - all former british colonies with no real ties except the queen on their stamps.

this thread was about the UK and Algeria and what was behind the hostage situation - is the one eye guy a CIA agent? why didnt they blow up the oil base? wouldnt that be better for their "cause" than taking or killing a few hostages? Oh wait - it would cost the West a lot of money and they wouldn't be the good guys in the end.

Funny how the French are suddenly great friends of Mali after years of hatred but guess what - there's oil there with Hollande's name all over it and now the US have drone bases in Niger

yeah you're right - nothing going on there...

reply to post by erebh


As I understand it, terrorism is expensive more due to the amount of palms needing greasing than anything else. Known extremists can't go around doing terrorist type things like buying bomb ingredients, even in places like Pakistan, so they pay 'clean skins' to do their errands. Same with paying civilians off to use their homes as safe houses, storage facilities and such.

Throw in the cost of fake documents, buying intel from police etc and I'd imagine it's actually quite pricey to mount anything more than even the most basic attack - especially internationally.

reply to post by KingIcarus



Ok if we are to believe that these islamist terrorists really exist, that they preach sharia law, have banned education for girls, rape and kill at will anyone in these Afghan caves and villages etc etc etc, then why should we now believe that they pay people to supply safe houses, run errands, print fake passports, buy bomb equipment - if these people are so holy and dedicated to the cause why are they all volunteers? And like I said before, an extremist already in the states could make a statement with a few dollars, even just a box of matches is all it would take to set fire to banks, oil bases anything

reply to post by erebh


I think what might be causing your misunderstanding of Al-Qa’ida is that you hold a pre-9/11 view of Al-Qa’ida, in the last decade Al-Qa’ida has changed away from being a organisation to being an idea. It is something that the media and government are very bad a explaining but if you pick up a Jason Burke or Peter Bergan book bother provide a very good explanation of the difference between pre and post-9/11 Al-Qa’ida.

PS: the 9/11 operation is believed to have cost in the region of $500,000 although figure do vary.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


so what's your point? Bin Laden was worth anything between 100 million to 500 million dollars and the the twin towers cost a few pennies out of it - he wouldnt even miss that kind of money.

And as from going from an organisation to a an idea? whats the point of that? So as an organisation, a network of hundreds of thousands of extremists around the world who pull off their biggest coupe possible and then call it a day and tell their followers to chill and think about the idea instead?

pfffffffffttt!

reply to post by erebh


Again you are thinking pre-9/11, the infrastructure that Bin Laden as his associates created from 1996-2001 was destroyed when America went into Afghanistan and the financing was a lot more complex than you are making out.

There have been attacks since 9/11 that have been attributed to Al-Qa’ida but they have been unable to launch anything on the scale of 9/11 because almost every attempt to do so has been disrupted by intelligence officials or has just failed. “Core” Al-Qa’ida has also shifted its focus since 9/11 and since 2005 has not been directly responsible for any attacks in western states

like i said before pick up a book up this subject

Pick up a book? A bbc sponsored book I suppose?

Anyway - as much as I've tried to get you back on topic re: Algerian hostage crisis I see there is no point - you are determined to derail it so shy bother

I look forward to debating with you elsewhere

Regards

PS anyone can google, cut and paste

reply to post by erebh


None of the authors I have mentioned thus far have been sponsored by the BBC I would highly recommend if you want to discuss the topic of Islamic terrorism that you read up on the subject a little beforehand.

I am more than happy to discuss the Algerian hostage crisis with you however your premise that it was engineered by the British government for the purposes of forging an alliance with the Algerian government is unfounded as such an alliance is already in place and as such your thread fails. Myself and several other members have pointed this out to you. Furthermore you are the one who started asking off-topic questions such as do I believe that Bin Laden was buried at seal for instance, not me.

Also none of what I write is copy and pasted from Google or any other source unless I quote it to clearly state it has come from another source therefore I would appreciate it if you did not cast such aspersions without proof. This is a subject I have done quite a lot of reading into so I don’t need to copy paste.