The endless war for peace, and the flawed belief system of belief systems. Please read.

A somewhat philosophical thread.

Most people have a certain drive that motivates their lives--certain goals and values. Right? We all have them. Weather their greed-driven, lust-driven, or morally driven, we all have some purpose that gets us out of bed in the morning, weather it's waking up and earning a paycheck for your family, fighting to end world hunger, wanting to "hit it and quit it" just to break someone's heart, or simply to find someone throughout your daily routine, argue with them, and somehow prove yourself right and win the argument (some people's life goals are very petty).

But we all have them. Drives.

However, it seems that no one particularly sees life "objectively."

Don't get me wrong, I understand why no one overlooks life through a general scope--because that particular outlook is rather depressing. But nevertheless, it may be the most logical.

If you look beyond your beliefs--just forget you have beliefs, morals, values, and drives, just for a second--you can see the world from a sky view, all time, all events, and all actions.

Looking down the line of history, as far back as anyone can record or remember, and probrably a lot further, humanity has always been consumed by war. War--killing those who oppose your beliefs, your freedom, your lifestyle, your anything really--has driven humanity since its dawn. Now, war between nations is more like a racket for our mafia of a government--but the point remains, on the streets here in America, along with every other nation in the world, you have people with strong beliefs, killing those who differ from them.

Why?

Because, of course, if you have strong beliefs and values, you are going to protect them from enemies. Who are the enemies to your beliefs? Anyone who believes differently from you. Why? Because anyone who believes differently from you is wrong--and, you fear that if you're exposed to them too much, they will corrupt you away from your beliefs. What's the only way to make damn sure they can't expose themselves to you or your people? Kill them.

When we are consumed by a strong belief, we become immensely, irrationally angry at those who don't follow the same belief.

Some people, like Jesse Ventura, who is one of my favorite people in the world, will argue that religion is to blame. Religion is fueled by people with insanely strong beliefs, and opposing religions--oh God, you better watch out.

But, racism is a strong belief. Look at the Nazis, look at the KKK, look at the Black Panthers. Sexism is a strong belief. Feminazis and womanizers follow a strong belief, and unrightfully hate and/or look down on the opposite sex, for no good, reasonable, or logical reason.

Nationalism is a strong belief. Some of you folks here on ATS, who are under the impression that the governments of the world AREN'T friends, and that all countries are on separate boats, you will side with your nation with a sense of pride and arrogance that bleeds through the words you type on the forum threads. Hell, I've done it before. Not intentionally, but I do love my country (not my government), and I feel the need to defend it when others attack it, even on a keyboard.

So, with these points made, I'd like to point out the modern idea that it is good to have morals, values, and beliefs that you whole-heartedly love and believe in.

See, people tell us it is good to express ourselves, to build character, and fight for our beliefs.

Then, when things like the holocaust happen, it's a different story. I'm not condoning the holocaust, remember, I'm being entirely logical here.

Isn't it a bit contradicting to believe, and raise our next generation to believe, that we should all have morals and values to fight for, when they spawn opposition, pain, and conflict?

No, I don't want to give up the morals and values I have, and I never will. But I can't shake the feeling that, when looking objectively to the world, the various different nations, religions, morals, values, and beliefs of so, SO many different people, we are locked in war forever.

This brings up an interesting philosophical question.

What is the point in choosing a side of no sides will ever win?

You can fight for your beliefs until you're blue in the face, but generation after generation, life after life, nation after nation, and religion after religion, even if you manage to take over your corner of the world (or the entire world, like the idea of a new world order), there will always be opposition. There will always be different people, with different views, different values, and different beliefs, and therefore, there will always be conflict, and there will always be a waging war.

Even if the new world order were to happen, and all who opposed it were exterminated, eventually, the people living in the new age would wake up. New generations could be born, and they would question the one world order, and opposition would breed from the belly of the beast. With every tyrannical government take over, this has always happened.

How many take-overs can you think of that lasted forever? None.

You can never exterminate opposition to your beliefs.

Then, there's the added argument; who's to say which beliefs are right and which ones aren't?

I understand that we all need a beliefs system, because they give our lives purpose.

But, looking beyond that, if no side can ever entirely win the war, why fight to win?

I am not being pessimistic. I am honestly looking for the answer to this question.

It seems as though humanity is locked in war with opposition to one another, and we can never escape.

Through all the ages, through all the governments and all the different countries, mankind has always killed, over thrown one another, and waged war, through the dillusional idea that, one day, the world will be free of all things that differ from you and your beliefs and values, when in reality, that could never happen.

We are like the Daleks. I've referred to the Daleks a lot before. For those of you who don't know, a Dalek is an alien creature that lives inside an indestructible robotic shell (see my avatar) and it feels nothing but hate, nothing but the passion to kill anyone and anything non-Dalek. Basically, like alien Nazis.

How different are we from Daleks?

I made another thread about a week ago, comparing humans with Daleks. A certain Dalek, from the show Doctor Who, transformed into a human-Dalek hybrid. This was the first thing he said after transforming, and feeling human feelings for the first time;

I... feel... humanity. I... feel... everything we wanted from man kind... which is hatred, aggression, anger... and war. Such a genius for war... at heart, this species is so very... Dalek.

Please don't knock me for using a fictional sci-fi series as a reference. I'm just making a comparison to the Daleks to better explain my point.

Humanity is constantly fighting a never ending war with themselves, something we can never win.

Has anyone else ever noticed this?

There is a fan song called "Exterminate, Regenerate" written as a tribute to the Daleks and the Time Lords (the Dalek's enemy race) and it explains my thoughts very well. It's a gorgeous song.

Here are the lyrics;

It's been such a long time since I met you back on Skaro
And I'm pretty sure that you know
That not much has changed since then
It doesn't matter how hard you try to remove me
I think you will agree
That if one of us dies, then the other will too
I am locked in war with you

Exterminate, Regenerate
I thought you always knew our fate
To just keep fighting on and on
While time keeps turning
Regenerate, Exterminate
And even though we are the same
Why don't you hop into your ship
And leave me burning

Even though, as men, we have our contrasts
We're of exactly the same class
And our constant companion is death
Look at you, fashioning people into weapons
How can you say that you're better than me?
We both carry the fire, that is set to devour life

Exterminate, Regenerate
I thought you always knew our fate
To just keep fighting on and on
While time keeps turning
Regenerate, Exterminate
And even though we are the same
Why don't you hop into your ship
And leave me burning

Now, doesn't it seem like that song defines the feeling of wanting more than anything to destroy an opposition that can never be destroyed?

That's my point.

What are we, as humans, doing?

What are we, as humans, doing?

What we as humans are doing, is the same thing we as a species have done since the beginning of our existence. The next question is WHY are we doing it (war)? There are 7 reasons.

Greed
Wrath
Lust
Pride
Sloth
Envy
Gluttony

Now I am in no way a religious person and I do not subscribe to any one tenet. But it seems to me that almost every human conflict fits into one of those 7 categories by one or both sides. The quest for power and dominance doesn't have to have reason and it usually never does, but unfortunately that is what drives too many people.

Originally posted by Carreau

What are we, as humans, doing?

What we as humans are doing, is the same thing we as a species have done since the beginning of our existence. The next question is WHY are we doing it (war)? There are 7 reasons.

Greed
Wrath
Lust
Pride
Sloth
Envy
Gluttony

Now I am in no way a religious person and I do not subscribe to any one tenet. But it seems to me that almost every human conflict fits into one of those 7 categories by one or both sides. The quest for power and dominance doesn't have to have reason and it usually never does, but unfortunately that is what drives too many people.

It seems as though EVERYTHING we do is motivated by these things, at one angle or another.

Everyone is corrupt.