China colonel raises nuclear spectre

Originally posted by nottelling
Any credible physical threat to Australia or her territories by China would incur the wrath of our Allies and probably NATO. Of course, if they made landfall they would encounter a technologically superior opponent who has, since the 1950s, prepared for conflict on our own soil against an overwhelmingly numerically superior enemy (China and Indonesia). We'd take an absolute beating and it's hard to say whether we'd be able to repulse a full-on invasion of our resource areas in the north and our industrial centres in the southeast and southwest. We'd make them pay dearly for any gains - of that you can be certain.

Spot on there mate!

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Has anyone thought of letting Japan re-militarize itself?

Do a little reserach into the Fukushima melt down and you'll find evidence that Japan was running a clandestine Nuclear weapons program.

You can bet Japans "Defence Forces" are only defensive by name. The West has been sponsoring them for decades.


Re: China's threats.....it is understandable, they want to stir public reaction and discource in order to sway political decisions. A growing economy/country can only keep growing if it expands. Chinese is nearing this point and Australia is a sweet piece of a$$ down south that it would love to inhabit and further develop into a 2nd China.

Both our agriculture and Natural resources aswell as low population are highly attractive to the Chinese.

But do not be mistaken or fooled my fellow Communist Imperialists. Take a lesson out of the WW2 handbook.

When, with all of the Japanese Empires might and force projection, a very small group of "farmers come soldiers" held back the Japanese advance in malaysia/indonesia taking a heavy toll against the Japanese with their improvised tactics.



Any serious projection of Chinese force would take time. The best they could do would be to use nukes from a distance or try and blackmail detsruction threats via subs......this would bring the wrath of the Western military against China and turn it into a plane of glass if not worse.

This is nothing more than the wet-dreams of a communist general aching for some action before he retires.

There's not going to be a China-Japan war, or a China-U.S. war, or anything like that.

China understands that the 19th-Century model of empires is over. You can't overthrow the world militarily or rule people with an iron fist and not expect rebellion. Instead, you build businesses, create jobs, and market products to people, who work hard so they can have the same life as the people glorified in the media. This is the way that Southeast Asia is going.

China flexing its muscles in the region isn't the endgame. They will rattle thier paper sabers and make lots of fear-inducing speeches, and it will all get settled in negotiations and treaties that make all the players involved rich. This is an old Eastern trick.

China holds a trillion dollars of our debt. If they fight a war with us, they can't collect.

China wants to own Japan and the US, not destroy them. They are in this for the long haul. They will build thier mousetrap slowly. It might take 50-100 years. That's okay. They've been around long enough to see how this works.

They are never going to collect that trillion anyways unless they somehow beat us in a fight. It's a game to them and they play things on a grand scale sometimes over 100's of years because they can. We're just the new kid on the block to them. They don't let anyone say anything unless they tell them to. If they didn't like what that guy said he'd already be dead.

reply to post by Iamschist


i cant wait to see australia invade china, that would be

E P I C


i dont ever see that happening

E V E R


lol

If china starts a war with the west, what do they do then?

Say they take australia. All the raw materials they need.
Nobody at war with them will buy their junk anymore, so who are they selling to, to keep the machines running?

Regardless of whether australia sides with the US, would the US accept china taking australia? Surely they would be worried about china doubling their lands/resources - and if nobody is buying china's crap anymore, china will almost have to retool to produce military equipment in ridiculous quantities just to keep their workers in line...

I honestly dont think we're going to see any major international moves in the near future... Everyone is waiting to see whether the US completely collapses or goes fullon police state.. once the future is a little more predictable, then people will start moving.. that said, i think people are positioning themselves for what they see as the likely outcome.

Gillard has already drawn the lines with China with cyber security directly targeting the ongoing threats from China which Krudd sweeped under the rug.

A NEW national cyber security headquarters will be set up to fight increasing online threats as part of a new national security blueprint revealed today.

She said the third measure was to focus on enhanced regional engagement in the Asian region as the area increases it influence amid the rise of China and India.

Thank christ the Haiwei contract for the NBN was blocked due to national security, Australia would of had it's core network wide open and ofcourse Haiwei was 'very upset' by the decision,

PM: Australia's security focus is Asia and reveals cyber security blueprint

Australia doesnt hold much hope of lasting against a Chinese attack. We are a long way away from assistance from allies, we do not have the numbers or the machinery to counter china, not by a long shot.

Our handful of jets would be taken down pretty quick, our boats might stand up for a few days, but eveantually overwhealming numbers would take them down too.

Our population centres are pretty isolated and small and easy pickings. Our military men and women although brave, strong and willing simply do not have the numbers to defend for very long.

Our only real advantage is our size and our hazardous land. Like the Germans in Russia, the Chinese would not beat us if it were to turn into a war stretching across the continent, we'd take to the bush and build up a pretty good alliance with the Aboriginals for guriella warfare, but if it got to that, then there's really no hope as we'd never be able to take back Perth.

Perth is the Key, if anyone wanted to invade Australia Perth would be the focus. It's a metropolis on its own, it has a large city centre, it has a large ocean port. It has good rivings to hide subs and boats, it has good access to the outback. It has a massive mining and gas aspect and its so far from the other side of the country that any counter attack would be seen early and dealt with before it crossed the WA border.

If the Chinese could figure out how to sneak up a few aircraft carriers and 50'000 troops to within a days sailing of Fremantle, Perth would be taken very quickly and it would be a long bloody battle around the world before it fell!

In saying that, we cannot openly side with China, as America's alliance means more than you imagine to us.
But we cant openly side with America if the Chinese force us to, because we will not be able to hold out.

however, if China hits Japan and SE Asia and the US gets involved, it wont matter. World War will be on and we will play a much larger role than WW2

The drums of war are reaching a deafening volume .....and to think, some thought Dec 22 dawning meant it was all over or something. lol... The Mayan Calendar was whatever many ages ago. This is now.

Weren't some folks just saying a few months ago how much nicer and friendly China would be for the Australians to ally with than the mean old United States? I really hadn't expected China to show her true colors quite THIS fast but wow...it's absolutely no surprise either.

Ask those folks in Tibet how Chinese hospitality is working out there. I think they're a little sick of their house guests if I had to guess. I wouldn't stay middle of the road too long either. No decision made IS a decision made...and that won't be lost on China if the U.S. has an economic implosion. That takes us off the board for a few years anyway.

Australia does have ONE big advantage. It's a BIG BIG ocean to cross and China has all the Blue Water naval capability of Singapore. It's not much..but it's something.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The drums of war are reaching a deafening volume .....and to think, some thought Dec 22 dawning meant it was all over or something. lol... The Mayan Calendar was whatever many ages ago. This is now.

Weren't some folks just saying a few months ago how much nicer and friendly China would be for the Australians to ally with than the mean old United States? I really hadn't expected China to show her true colors quite THIS fast but wow...it's absolutely no surprise either.

Ask those folks in Tibet how Chinese hospitality is working out there. I think they're a little sick of their house guests if I had to guess. I wouldn't stay middle of the road too long either. No decision made IS a decision made...and that won't be lost on China if the U.S. has an economic implosion. That takes us off the board for a few years anyway.

Australia does have ONE big advantage. It's a BIG BIG ocean to cross and China has all the Blue Water naval capability of Singapore. It's not much..but it's something.

Dude, what are you talking about - "middle of the road"?

Australia and the United States have ironclad mutual defence treaties. Any external threat against America or its strategic interests is treated as a threat against Australia - it's been that way since the 1940s. This is why any time the US embarks on a military adventure, Australian Diggers, Sailors or Airmen are there.

There's no middle of the road. Regardless of how much the socialist scum in Canberra (that's our capital city BTW) would wish it otherwise, our military/defence treaty obligations to our United States (and Kiwi, and British) Allies aren't something that any given government of the day can choose to ignore, let alone dishonour. To drop out of them would also entail unravelling a whole raft of economic agreements, something the Left won't do because it's too close to nationalism for their liking.

I say the U.S. and Australia should stay out of it. It's neither ones neighborhood. Let Japan and China settle their differences.

I would like to say as an American we have your backs over this even if you side with china "American people not our government" we may bust each other balls sometimes but its just for fun and laughs. Do what you think is right

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Our entire country would be brought to its kness through attacks from the ocean. Every major city is on a coast. As usual, the only city out of harms way is the one where the politicians spend most of their days and I wouldn't even call that a city.

reply to post by nottelling

Australia and the United States have ironclad mutual defence treaties. Any external threat against America or its strategic interests is treated as a threat against Australia - it's been that way since the 1940s. This is why any time the US embarks on a military adventure, Australian Diggers, Sailors or Airmen are there.

Well, I can't quite express in a post how happy it makes me to hear you say that. We get little if any news up here that would be of the tone or accuracy you folks have there. Generally, references to Australia include some tacky call for 'shrimps on the barbie' or a Kangaroo hopping around. It's truly pathetic, I know, but it's the truth.

Given that for the level of information commonly had on American TV about the state of public opinion and attitude of Australians? Well, it's easy to listen to some of the more left here ...see it go unchallenged for the most part ...and presume they are sharing a decent representation of the opinions of Australia overall.

So thank you for jumping in as an Australian to share a side not heard nearly often enough in reassurance that our faithful ally is still down there and doing well. By the way....I have nothing but respect for the Aussie Military. Your pilots were known as some of the craziest guys in Vietnam, as just one example. It's reading about it...but also hearing from my Father when he was alive..just how crazy your guys got to save some of our people when U.S. pilots laughed at the idea of going to some places ...no one was supposed to be. (tips hat)

If Australia is to be forced into a position to pick between China and the US, so would many other Nations around the globe. First we would have our own civil war as our multicultural heritage surfaced in this stand off. With the government and military more aligned with the US and Europe we would more likely side here once our dust settles. With the global economy more likely to push this division rather than some ocean boundaries, on the other side will be the BRIC nations and their alliances.

Considering how many reports there have been of UFO's interfering with nuclear weapons and missiles, such an option looks to be further up the chains of power with their capabilities, limitations and motivations unknown. Despite all of the ongoing international tensions, civilization is still standing. In my opinion, the likelihood of a scorched earth policy based more on galactic rather than terrestrial reasons. Sure there is always a possibility of any survivors being sent back to the stone age if global divisions fracture deep and sever enough. Resources do not appear stretched enough to currently justify such action.

As for a China Colonel letting of some steam, good on him. Helps keep everyone motivated.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by nottelling

 

Australia and the United States have ironclad mutual defence treaties. Any external threat against America or its strategic interests is treated as a threat against Australia - it's been that way since the 1940s. This is why any time the US embarks on a military adventure, Australian Diggers, Sailors or Airmen are there.

Well, I can't quite express in a post how happy it makes me to hear you say that. We get little if any news up here that would be of the tone or accuracy you folks have there. Generally, references to Australia include some tacky call for 'shrimps on the barbie' or a Kangaroo hopping around. It's truly pathetic, I know, but it's the truth.

Given that for the level of information commonly had on American TV about the state of public opinion and attitude of Australians? Well, it's easy to listen to some of the more left here ...see it go unchallenged for the most part ...and presume they are sharing a decent representation of the opinions of Australia overall.

So thank you for jumping in as an Australian to share a side not heard nearly often enough in reassurance that our faithful ally is still down there and doing well. By the way....I have nothing but respect for the Aussie Military. Your pilots were known as some of the craziest guys in Vietnam, as just one example. It's reading about it...but also hearing from my Father when he was alive..just how crazy your guys got to save some of our people when U.S. pilots laughed at the idea of going to some places ...no one was supposed to be.

(tips hat)

It's all good mate.

Seems like there is a lot of angst between Aussies and Americans on these sorts of forums and I for one don't understand it. If you disagree with a country's foreign policies that's your right as a free-thinking individual, but to lump all Americans into one basket based on what their government does is ridiculous. Australians and Americans (of all colours and creeds) have far more similarities than we have differences.

As nations we have been close friends since at least the 1850s and the friendship was solidified during the Great War when Australians and members of the American Expeditionary Forces fought side by side in the mud and trenches of France, it was cemented when America came to our aid in 1942 against Japanese aggression and again when Australia put herself forward as America's giant floating aircraft carrier in the Pacific for the fight back against the Imperial Japanese. During the United Nations operations on the Korean Peninsula in the early 1950s, Australian troops, sailors and aircrew once again fought side by side with their American Allies (against Chinese communist forces mainly), and in the 1960s we followed our Ally into the meatgrinder of Vietnam without a hint of naivete - our leaders knew that a secure South Vietnam meant more security and influence for Australia in the South East Asian region. Hours after the events of September 11, 2001 Australia invoked the ANZUS treaty to come to America's aid and for the past decade we have been right there by your side.

We're like Canada, but not as polite, and we're a bit further away

The histories and the fates of our two nations are intertwined. America has made some mistakes and so have we, but if it weren't for the other, both would be worse off.

Chinese propaganda can't break those bonds.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Has anyone thought of letting Japan re-militarize itself?

It may sound crazy, but many things have changed in 70 years, I don't think the people of Japan today are the same kind of people that were on board for controlling all of the Pacific back in WWII.

Japan is now an ally of the West, and having them able to be a check to China saying they own all the fishing/drilling rights in that area of the world wouldn't be a bad thing.

I read 6 pages and this is the first comment I want to respond top.

America can trust Japan to a certain extent but Australia can't. The same goes for India and there is Indonesia.

China isn't necessarily the biggest threat.

This is about China gaining rights to resources in the Philippines. The inclusion of Australia is because we tend to bang-on a lot about law and order and other such silliness. They know that they will get a rise out of us. To talk of war against china is just going to make people weak... not a single shot fired

This was about America, India and Japan containing china. It's still expected that Australia would help, even though we have spelled it out clearly that we are neutral.

As far as the militarized specter of India or Japan are concerned they are just as big a threat if not bigger.

Originally posted by Jubosh
meh china most likely ridding it out till the US finishes collapsing then what doesn't japan have... nothing, china is mighty mad at them still. and worst case is they will take japan then us that powre gain to take us isle, and Hawaii,
then west coast, and probally get em all if obama has his way, either way once china moves in they ain't moving out, regardless of if we get our # together,
Read the book "one second after" by William R. Forstchen

I agree. A whole lot of countries are waiting it out until America crashes. I mentioned India and japan as countries who would be motivated to help themselves, but to be fair Russia is the player that would like to exert itself. Saying that Europe hasn't gone away either...

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by 200Plus

 

I'm not sure China has 100 Billion people, there are only 7 billion on the whole planet

but everything else you say is true aside from Australia needing to sell their raw materials to China. Australia is capable of complete self sustainance.

As of 2011, china's population is 1,344,130,000, one billion, three hundred forty four million, one hundred thirty thousand people. That's pretty much 20% of the worlds population in china alone...
PLA Stats
Active personnel approximately 2,285,000

Available for
military service 385,821,101 males,
363,789,674 females,

Reaching military
age annually 10,406,544 males
9,131,990 females

These are wiki figures, which could be grossly underestimated, or grossly over estimated, we all seem to think we have perfect intelligence on the Chinese, which really urks me. Online, we often run into instances of bold patriots claiming they could squash china like it was no big deal.

Between active military personal, and their currently fit for service individuals they outnumber the ENTIRE US population. Now, I will admit, the technology china has we are aware of is not all something to be worried about, but they do possess enough technology the US government does not make the same absolute certain foolish patriotic statements of a cake walk conflict.

Make no mistake, the US would not want, enjoy, have an easy day in a conflict with China, and for a long time the Chinese shared a similar mindset. I have to say I'm absolutely shocked, that china has made the bold statements it has in the recent months. It makes me begin to question China's capabilities and if they are underestimated by those in the west, or if China knows that the west does not possess all of the capabilities it claims to.

Many of us are well aware, on the cyber warfare/espionage side of things China is ahead of the US by miles. They seem to find out more about the west's technology and secrets then we know about their most basic of services. I'm sure a large part of this is due to the communist silence that china has with in it's own borders. Everything is a secret, no one talks, nothing is left exposed for prying eyes.

I'm not necessarily saying those of us in the west are complete idiots when it comes to our "security," but goofy basement dwelling hackers break into top secret systems and files. Why are we so bold as to think those in the business of spying on us aren't miles ahead of them in their skills. We also live in a modernized electronic world, that was developed and built in china. They produce our software and security systems, and likely know how to get into them typing with their ear lobes.

I don't want anything to do with this conflict, unfortunately if china kicks off with any of the Asian Allies, the US, or Australia could get involved, dragging the rest of the western allies into in. I don't want that, nor do you, nor does anyone and sadly if it does happen it's going to be unlike anything this Earth has seen(that we know about).

China is a modern nation, strong economy(They buy up all the resources we will give them, own all our debts, produce all our goods.) More man power than any other nation. They're in the closest thing to a modern industrial boom than any of us have seen(even though we need it), they stand to turn into the worlds leading nation, and they are borrowing a trick from the old world. War brings a nation together, it puts everyone on common terms, they work together to find new solutions, produce jobs, make enormous amounts of money, and potentially gain land and or resources. China stands to gain the most in this conflict, we all stand to lose.

It's going to be a pretty stressful year if this tension isn't sorted out quickly and diplomatically.

Originally posted by woogleuk
You also have to take into consideration that should the Chinese land on Australian shores, they would have the wildlife to deal with.....crocs, alligators, scorpions, big mother spiders, skippy and that thing they go on about that looks like a rabid koala bear,

Mate, I don't see one thing mentioned in your list they don't consider a delicacy. I think this is a big part of why they want to plunder, down under. Set up some fancy Chinese Eateries.



China is home of the worlds largest centipedes, hornets, snakes, crocs/gators of their own, snakes, monkeys, wolves, bears, they aren't that much different than your neck of the woods. Actually, I'd rather revisit Australia and go for a walk in the bush then get lost in the Chinese Wilderness.

Wouldn't want to stumble into a hive of these bad boys stumbling around toxic Chinese wilderness, in the smog and panic.

world's largest hornet, native to temperate and tropical Eastern Asia. Its body length is approximately 50 mm (2 in), its wingspan about 76 mm (3 in),[3] and it has a 6 mm (0.2 in) sting which injects a large amount of potent venom.

Nasty, nasty bastards.

Originally posted by woogleuk

Originally posted by kingmonkey


Having over 1500 combat aircraft, China would make easy work of any naval fleet the UK could muster.

I really don't need to add any further comments, the pic speaks for itself.....1500 you say?

Like shooting fish in a barrel, except airborne fish.

DF-21

Your fancy toy will be on the bottom of the pacific mate. China has made some serious advancements the rest of the world didn't even think of up until recent years.

The US DOD has stated there is currently no defense against this system. Bring all the boats you want with in strike range of Chinese targets, and the Chinese can sink your multi-million dollar sail boats. China doesn't need a navy to destroy yours. China can take hypersonic pot shots at you that you can not shoot down. No body can apparently.