Algerian assault ends crisis, 19 hostages dead

reply to post by ChesterJohn


There is evidence of a plane with what would likely be Delta force landing before this all went down. I bet a couple of Algerians are having fun playing with them..

Why did those...individuals.... refuse help from the US and Britain, who have 2 of the best SOF in the freaking world!?

eta correction 3 of the best SOF. Forgot about the French, and the GIGN. The Algerians will regret this for some time to come, if i know my country like I think I do. This will not be profitable for them at all. It was a foolish and pride-based decision from what I can see.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by ChesterJohn

 

Now I wonder how it would have all ended if they would of had armed Guards and each employee was allowed to carry at least a side arm?

I don't think any gas/oil company is going to allow firearms on site for the same reason that people aren't allowed to smoke at petrol stations.

Wow what a freaking joke.

Seriously?

It is sad to say that argument is persuasive enough to get innocent people killed...as you can see.

ETA the real reason isn't because they are scared of blowing up - it is simply BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR MONEY - NOT YOUR LIFE. Or your kids life for that matter.

Algerian Special forces are definately a cut above the regular algerian troops.....
They have shoes!

A Blanket ban on guns and religion would have solved this... yup yup.... Now look to the left, while i put these cuffs on you.

Glad its over. Unfortunate to hear about the loss of life caused by this hostage situation. Although, I don't fault the Algerians for taking the intiative and assaulting the terrorists first and foremost. From what I heard, this was a large complex, and a very difficult operation that would have been diffcult for whomever was involved. Hindsight is 20/20.

I am not one to play the my special forces are better than yours. It is really pointless. Each of them have their particular strengths and weaknesses. Any way you look at it, special forces operations are inherently dangerous not only for the operators involved, but any civilians as well. Anybody recall Breslan and the Moscow Theater incidents which was conducted by Russian Spetnz, Operation Eagle Claw which involved Delta Force Operators, Operation Urgent Fury during the invasion of Grenada which involved Navy Seals and Army Rangers, or how about the journalist that died in Afghanistan a few years ago during a hostage rescue.

The work is difficult, and the special forces are the cream of the crop. Although, they are still human like the rest of us. Let not forget that. On another note, perhaps, pride and ego got in the way of the Algerian goverment from seeking outside consultation and assistance from foreign countries? It was a difficult operation! That is all I can say about it.

reply to post by Jakes51


I read the first paragraph and my wtf meter went off. Sorry missed the last two. Did you just say you don't blame the Algerians for handling this themselves when 3 countries with the best SOF groups had hostages involved, and offered help.


wtf meter now approaching critical mass, world armageddon is surely imminent given the scale of the wtfocules reacting with each other.

Why is wtfocules not registering with spell check!?

eta Algerian special forces can not be compared with them. OK sorry I am risking world armegedon given the fact that I am editing more wtfocules into the mix. Better than not speaking the truth I guess.

From what I'm aware Algeria were contacted by Britain who told Algeria not to act in haste and to constantly feed information back before any action is taken. From what I've read/heard the terrorist had begun executing some hostages or at the very least the Algerians believed this was the case and thus felt like they had no choice.

Nontheless, the actions of the Algerians was sloppy by all accounts, using air support on escaping vehicles filled with hostages and kidnappers alike. Other hostages had apparently had suicide belts strapped to them and were subsequently either killed in the botched rescue in friendly fire or executed.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Don't sugar coat this sh*t. A pride-based and foolish decision cost lives. Algerian SOF wanted the spotlight, and they got it.

They are saying 23 hostages were killed. I think the Algerian Army were too heavy handed in dealing with this situation.

I am in Algeria just now working in Hassi Messaoud. Some of the employees of the company I work for were there when it all kicked off. They managed to escape after the first Army attack. I was told by them that during their escape they had the unfortunate experience of seeing bodies after the Algerian Army had attacked the Militants. The bodies were a mix of Algeria, Militant and Expats all shot and burned. Probably by the Algerian Army.

This should have been handled better with forces that have more experience in dealing with hostage situations.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by ChesterJohn

 

Now I wonder how it would have all ended if they would of had armed Guards and each employee was allowed to carry at least a side arm?

I don't think any gas/oil company is going to allow firearms on site for the same reason that people aren't allowed to smoke at petrol stations.

i don't think that's the reason to be honest. i used to work as a welder at a power plant (tight security), and we weren't allowed pocket knives, but there were plenty of much more dangerous things on the plant.

hell, if someone wanted to destroy it, all they would have to do is wheel some acetylene tanks and oxygen tanks next to each other, open the valves, and have welding leads running over to the area. all common equipment.

to be fair though, construction workers are a rough bunch, most were druggies or drunks (yes, even on the job) with criminal histories, or just generally unsavory characters.

reply to post by NarrowGate


I was not making any comparison to the other Special Forces outfits you mentioned. All I said was that I was happy the situation was over. That is all! Then I went on to state that from what I heard on the news earlier that this particular operation was a difficult one. I think it was that retired CIA agent, Bob Baer, who notioned as much? This was a sprawling compound with highly flamable stuff inside with it being a gas plant, and no one really knew how many terrorists were inside or how many hostages. Where mistakes made? Probably? Will we ever know if the scenario would have been different if US, UK, or another special forces team took the lead? No. With that said, I agree they should have taken outside help and consultation. Pride and ego is a hell of a thing!

Although, why let those scum get comfortable to make demands, behead hostages, strap explosives devices to hostages, and do whatever else they do in situations like this. Go in there an smash them! Just my two cents, and I am just as appalled as anyone when hearing how many hostages could have lost their lives in the raid that ensued. Hindsight is 20/20. Please spare the belittling and ridicule, because it is not necessary. We can have decent conversation about this without slighting each other. Thanks for the reply, and I respect your opinion on the matter.

Algeria's oil minister Youcef Yousfi just stated that Algeria will not allow foreigners to secure its oil facilities.

I am asking are there already kind of private contractors firms securing foreign workers? Thats what I was thinking before, or maybe he is speaking on a larger scale of securing entire facilities.

Take care

I found this weird black square at google maps. Or maybe its just me.

maps.google.nl...

and paste this after 'myplaces'

?hl=nl&ll=27.926739,9.119768&spn=0.023964,0.052314&ctz=-60&t=h&z=15

"we don't negotiate with terrorists we created"

great motto.

reply to post by kanbanozaurus


I think it's about time someone secures Algeria's oil fields. If they have a problem they can take it up with an m4? They will not that much is certain.

reply to post by Jakes51


I just do not agree. They should have never been able to take hostages, and they should have known how many people were taken hostage considering it is a high risk target for terrorists, and as you can see Algeria is not capable of securing their own oil fields.

Other than that, they should have let a real SOF group handle this. If we wanted to just blow everyone up we could have sent drones. Our citizens were involved. Algeria can kick rocks. Either let us secure the oil fields, or we should no longer do business with them.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Well made points, and I agree. Why was that facility not afforded reasonable security measures? That is the major question. Good that you brought that up. Hopefully, the nations that lost citizens will get a decent report to find out what happened? Right now, things remain in a haze. Judging by the chain of events, any help offered to avoid this tragedy should have been utilized. However, as I said earlier, pride and ego is a hell of thing. I suppose the Algerian military has a lot of learning to do, because it seems they missed the learning curve? Thanks for the response!

reply to post by Jakes51


I hope so too. Thank you for the intelligent discussion!

eta sorry if I came off as condescending, I am aggravated by this incident. Everything about it is just....well you get the point.

Originally posted by Heisenberg59
"we don't negotiate with terrorists we created"

great motto.

Could you elaborate?

Do you have evidence we armed them? Or are you implying it is somehow our fault they are slaughtering people because Islam demands it?

Algeria may have received help we won't know about and may have refused help it really didn't need.
There are many reasons why a hypothetical help wouldn't be advertised for both domestic and international political motives, be it good or bad motives.

More than 700 hostages were freed or able to flee during the fights, something that doesn't seem to be underlined in the english-speaking MSM.
This kind of attack has always been considered a major risk in Algeria. Personal has been trained and prepared for it with foreign assistance, I have got no reason to think western units would have undoubtely done better, except for my natural western arrogance.

You can consider Algeria currently as a police state whose regime is founded on the opposition to Fundamentalists. They very well know what they are dealing with.