Interesting Man Found Dead in Missouri Woods

delete

Some things still don't add up but really - who plans for such a momentous hike in the dead of North American winter? No matter how warm it gets don't you save that stuff for the the Spring, Summer and maybe Fall?

BTW Air Force basic training is standard difficulty along with the rest of the other branches, it's just a shorter duration than both the Army and Marines but on par with the Navy. I was in law enforcemnet (military policeman) in the Air Force and when basic training was over the security guys were shipped off to 8 more weeks of intense survivalist training at Fort Dix, NJ alongside the Marine police so it isn't as cushy as some would like to believe.

reply to post by hhcore


Really? I dont find any of it interesting. Dummy gets lost in the woods and freezes to death. Ok its not nice. Its not a happy ending but what is passing for interesting these days is just bad news on other days.

the length of hike, lack of preparedness/equpiment, and age of kids just do not make any sense... Who in their right mind would plan something like that?

Originally posted by cartesia
the length of hike, lack of preparedness/equpiment, and age of kids just do not make any sense... Who in their right mind would plan something like that?

I think the kids just got sick of hearing about how in "his day he would walk miles in the snow..." then the kids called him on it.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by cartesia
the length of hike, lack of preparedness/equpiment, and age of kids just do not make any sense... Who in their right mind would plan something like that?

I think the kids just got sick of hearing about how in "his day he would walk miles in the snow..." then the kids called him on it.

also, superhans is one of my alltime favorite tv characters

With all due respect OP this post was frustrating. It is posts like these that make me question so much of the conspiracy theory community. There's no doubt in my mind that there are conspiracies but so often it seems people around here see monsters where there are only shadows. Your post started with enough intrigue...A man, working on a top secret government black project, found dead in the woods, AND then....the end. "what do you guys think?".

I just think the OP should bring more to the table then some hollywoodesque mystery teaser. Of course what most people will think around here is that something sinister is afoot, you know what website this is, right ?
It's gotta be the CIA, NWO, Illuminati, etc., any thing but the elements and bad timing and/or an unfortunate mistake for passing on a ride to refuge...

You say yourself you haven't found much information on this man, so what evidence is there that this man was involved in any secret project(s) if he couldn't/didn't even talk about them privately?

Sometimes accidents happen and there is little evidence here to the contrary. Conspiracies are real too, but it doesn't help conspiracy theorists' legitimacy to see secret machinations in every unfortunate occurrence. If more evidence then the initial anecdote is presented, I'd reconsider my opinion.

Originally posted by Power_Semi
Folks, have some respect.

This is a Father & 2 young sons who have sadly passed away in a terrible tragic accident.

Imagine if it were your family and you find some internet nutballs posting about how they were murdered, it's a conspiracy based on absolutely nothing but the fantasies inside their own deluded minds.

How would you feel?

How do you think his widow, children, family, and friends will feel if they read this nonsense?

Some of you are even accusing the driver of being involved, you are possibley entering the dangerous territory of defamation of character.

There is no evidence at all that this is anything other than a tragic accident.

You should be ashamed of yourselves. Have some respect and show some decorum to his family FFS.

Mods, you should shut this thing down.

edit on 16-1-2013 by Power_Semi because: (no reason given)

Actually if I fall over dead in the woods, like Robin Cook for example, I would hope like hell somebody would look into it further, especially if I worked in some kind of classified DOD job. I'm utterly sick of people calling for threads to get closed down because it asks questions like this. You should be damned glad somebody asks these questions.

I always wondered how our parents and grandparents sat through the whole Magic Bullet crap from the Warren Commission without questioning it... The answer to that is in the quote above.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Power_Semi
Folks, have some respect.

This is a Father & 2 young sons who have sadly passed away in a terrible tragic accident.

Imagine if it were your family and you find some internet nutballs posting about how they were murdered, it's a conspiracy based on absolutely nothing but the fantasies inside their own deluded minds.

How would you feel?

How do you think his widow, children, family, and friends will feel if they read this nonsense?

Some of you are even accusing the driver of being involved, you are possibley entering the dangerous territory of defamation of character.

There is no evidence at all that this is anything other than a tragic accident.

You should be ashamed of yourselves. Have some respect and show some decorum to his family FFS.

Mods, you should shut this thing down.

edit on 16-1-2013 by Power_Semi because: (no reason given)

Actually if I fall over dead in the woods, like Robin Cook for example, I would hope like hell somebody would look into it further, especially if I worked in some kind of classified DOD job. I'm utterly sick of people calling for threads to get closed down because it asks questions like this. You should be damned glad somebody asks these questions.

I always wondered how our parents and grandparents sat through the whole Magic Bullet crap from the Warren Commission without questioning it... The answer to that is in the quote above.

If you think about it, prior to telephony and the Internet, people would have had these discussions behind clothes doors, and (purposefully) well out of earshot of those affected by the tragedy or scandal. You wouldn't present speculative machinations, theory or conjecture to the parties directly involved unless you had proof - otherwise you risk embarrassing yourself and "losing face".

The reason this doesn't happen with people on the Internet is twofold: 1) anonymity and 2) you have an almost complete guarantee that no one you are interacting with online is a directly related party.

So, to recap, no, probably no one who posted in this forum would have made any of these comments if they were physically present in the same room with the wife and family. This is why I feel bad for people who are "outted" and nationally shamed for a YouTube video or forum post. Not blogs, per se, as the intent is different (audience is expected to be general).

Many people say, "we'll, they should have known better...things go everywhere on the Internet". However, in casual speech or directly written letters, we generally have an expectation of limited/controlled audience when we speak or write. It is a learned skill to realize that any and all things we say, write or do online is not off-limits to anyone, in particular. The audience in any and all things we say is no longer under our control as it was (relatively) guaranteed to be in the past.

reply to post by Sphota


That's an excellent point.
The obligatory second line...

Originally posted by Threadfall
With all due respect OP this post was frustrating. It is posts like these that make me question so much of the conspiracy theory community. There's no doubt in my mind that there are conspiracies but so often it seems people around here see monsters where there are only shadows. Your post started with enough intrigue...A man, working on a top secret government black project, found dead in the woods, AND then....the end. "what do you guys think?".

I just think the OP should bring more to the table then some hollywoodesque mystery teaser. Of course what most people will think around here is that something sinister is afoot, you know what website this is, right

?
It's gotta be the CIA, NWO, Illuminati, etc., any thing but the elements and bad timing and/or an unfortunate mistake for passing on a ride to refuge...

You say yourself you haven't found much information on this man, so what evidence is there that this man was involved in any secret project(s) if he couldn't/didn't even talk about them privately?

Sometimes accidents happen and there is little evidence here to the contrary. Conspiracies are real too, but it doesn't help conspiracy theorists' legitimacy to see secret machinations in every unfortunate occurrence. If more evidence then the initial anecdote is presented, I'd reconsider my opinion.

Well, I didn't have much else to report in the op. I didn't know anymore, though I was trying to find more. At the time, every news report I found said the same thing. I was curious if anyone had heard the name before and could point me to more information.

I gave up the conspiracy around page 2 when posters informed me his job is very common in the area and doesn't necessarily mean he was working with secret information.

Other posters have gone on to speculate, but it has become pretty cut and dry to me now.

Very odd indeed.

what is odd is the number of people making baseless assumptions

as an example try answering a few simple questions :

1 - what equipment was he carrying ?

2 - how far from the lodge ware they found

3 - how long was the hike they took

It's my guess it was hypothermia that killed them. Their shivering and physical exhaustion would increase, and as their body core temperatures continued to drop, a false sense of warmth would creep in along with a need to rest for a while, which is when the final sleep would take over.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
what is odd is the number of people making baseless assumptions

as an example try answering a few simple questions :

1 - what equipment was he carrying ?

2 - how far from the lodge ware they found

3 - how long was the hike they took

Agreed. I tried to find this information a few days ago and was unsuccessful. I looked at some hiking maps of the area and could see the position of the lodge and their destination, but without knowing where they were found, and where they really started I couldn't draw any conclusions. I expect that maybe I'll see an article about this in Backpacker magazine in a few months. If I do I'll find this thread and post an update.

How many people from Missouri are on this site!

Just because he was a Den Leader for the Scouts doesn't mean he was an experienced hiker...obviously. It doesn't mean he knew how to build a fire. Anyone can be a Den Leader, you don't have to pass some test. It would appear he thought he was a bit more capable than he actually was. I just can't imagine taking an eight and ten year old on a hike for that amount of time. My two children are that age and get bored in about two hours of any activity like that.

The article says the retired officer offered him a ride as they were already wet from the rain. I would guess his pride prevented him from accepting. The article then goes on to say his cell phone and a flash light were both dead (if any of you would bother to read the source). I would guess he couldn't get a signal and was using the phone as a flashlight trying to find his way back.

The search started at 6:30, about an hour after it was dark, and was called off after midnight, I believe the report said. They were found the next morning a few hours into the search. This would lead me to think that once lost he did NOT stay put, which is the first rule of hiking. Hug a tree. As they were found 30 miles from the lodge with a dead flashlight and cell phone I would guess they walked all night and stopped to sleep when the hypothermia started setting in.

No conspiracy here, but I think we should all take note of the circumstances and try to learn from it.

reply to post by essanance


he was from the south and last 10 years in germany, may not of ever been there before. colds one thing but wet and cold your dead.