Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne
What's absolutely ridiculous is you trying to backpedal and contend you never said things that are written right there in your posts.
And to claim that no one has ever denied humans have an impact on climate...
That's why this "debate" is absolutely insane and why I really shouldn't have even bothered. Trying to discuss these things with people who just constantly dance around the issue and make it a pissing contest, grasping at anything they can to justify their own bias rather than discussing it open-mindedly and honestly.
You act like the latter is what you're all about but your hypocrisy on this thread is astounding. You keep trying to make everything into some pointless google fight, nit-pick irrelevant details to avoid the facts, and immediately defer to the opinions and interpretations of others when all I'm trying to do is get you to look at the content itself.
I would have gladly discussed this topic in a polite rational manner if you had shown any intention of doing the same. I have easily managed to do this in the rare threads with those few and far between real skeptics who don't just make arrogant, foolishly authoritative statements on what's "the correct venue" or "destroying" others positions (with really ignorant and long ago debunked memes - I'm still lol'ing about that one).
So you want to judge me on my style then go ahead - but the fact is I rarely shoot first around here, I just have this nagging intolerance for hypocrisy and people showing up on ATS spouting total BS while preaching "deny ignorance" or some phony appeal for critical thinking.
There is plenty of room for a healthy, polite, sane discussion on climate change - but not when people are so clearly arrogant AND insecure about their opinions that they feel the need to explode over every little criticism that comes their way.
~Namaste, love+light, nanoo-nanoo, and all that junk
The direct effect of CO2 is well-established physics, based on laboratory results, and known for over a century.
The serious skeptical scientists have always agreed with the government climate scientists about the direct effect of CO2.
It's hardly news that human beings have had a hand in the planetary warming that began more than 30 years ago. For nearly a century, scientists have known that increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide would eventually result in warming that was most pronounced in winter, especially on winter's coldest days, and a cooling of the stratosphere. All of these have been observed.
The greenhouse effect is real, as is the enhancement due to increasing carbon dioxide concentration.
In comparison, an ensemble summary of our measurements indicates that an energy flux imbalance of 3.5 W/m2 has been created by anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases since 1850. This experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming.
~Namaste, love+light, nanoo-nanoo, and all that junk
What a douchebag thing to say. No more rope needed, you've hung yourself.
An Open Letter to the Community from Chris Landsea.
After some prolonged deliberation, I have decided to withdraw from participating in the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). I am withdrawing because I have come to view the part of the IPCC to which my expertise is relevant as having become politicized. In addition, when I have raised my concerns to the IPCC leadership, their response was simply to dismiss my concerns.
With this open letter to the community, I wish to explain the basis for my decision and bring awareness to what I view as a problem in the IPCC process. The IPCC is a group of climate researchers from around the world that every few years summarize how climate is changing and how it may be altered in the future due to manmade global warming. I had served both as an author for the Observations chapter and a Reviewer for the 2nd Assessment Report in 1995 and the 3rd Assessment Report in 2001, primarily on the topic of tropical cyclones (hurricanes and typhoons). My work on hurricanes, and tropical cyclones more generally, has been widely cited by the IPCC. For the upcoming AR4, I was asked several weeks ago by the Observations chapter Lead Author Dr. Kevin Trenberth to provide the writeup for Atlantic hurricanes. As I had in the past, I agreed to assist the IPCC in what I thought was to be an important and politically neutral determination of what is happening with our climate.
The scientist behind the bogus claim in a Nobel Prize-winning UN report that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders.
Dr Murari Lal also said he was well aware the statement, in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), did not rest on peer-reviewed scientific research.
In an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Dr Lal, the co-ordinating lead author of the report’s chapter on Asia, said: ‘It related to several countries in this region and their water sources. We thought that if we can highlight it, it will impact policy-makers and politicians and encourage them to take some concrete action.
‘It had importance for the region, so we thought we should put it in.’
Dr Lal’s admission will only add to the mounting furore over the melting glaciers assertion, which the IPCC was last week forced to withdraw because it has no scientific foundation.
According to the IPCC’s statement of principles, its role is ‘to assess on a comprehensive, objective, open and transparent basis, scientific, technical and socio-economic information – IPCC reports should be neutral with respect to policy’.
The claim that Himalayan glaciers are set to disappear by 2035 rests on two 1999 magazine interviews with glaciologist Syed Hasnain, which were then recycled without any further investigation in a 2005 report by the environmental campaign group WWF.
It was this report that Dr Lal and his team cited as their source.
The WWF article also contained a basic error in its arithmetic. A claim that one glacier was retreating at the alarming rate of 134 metres a year should in fact have said 23 metres – the authors had divided the total loss measured over 121 years by 21, not 121.
Last Friday, the WWF website posted a humiliating statement recognising the claim as ‘unsound’, and saying it ‘regrets any confusion caused’.
Dr Lal said: ‘We knew the WWF report with the 2035 date was “grey literature” [material not published in a peer-reviewed journal]. But it was never picked up by any of the authors in our working group, nor by any of the more than 500 external reviewers, by the governments to which it was sent, or by the final IPCC review editors.’
JSC Human Space Flight Vets Complain About NASA's Climate Change Position
By Keith Cowing on April 11, 2012 1:42 PM
"49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it's role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question. The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change."