Simon Wiesenthal Center: Top 10 Anti-Semites, Israel-Haters for 2012

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
My interpretation of this post was that it appears that you do not like certain aspects to be discussed if they do not fit within your views of Anti-Zionism versus Anti-Semitism. I made it quite clear in my OP what my intentions were yet you continued to ask me what were my intentions as if I should not be discussing this topic in the fashion that I have.

After reading other posts from you, I believe you deserve to be recognized as Not being a hate monger.

I re-read your opening post and believe your intent was to show that Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Your list from the Wiesenthal Center is, solely, intended to prove your point by including people who do not qualify as Anti-Semites. If this is your intent I am fully with you but please correct me if I am misinterpreting.

The only question I wonder is why did you choose to name the thread not relaying that intent, if I understood correctly. In short, should we discussing here the list, or, the difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism?

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
My interpretation of this post was that it appears that you do not like certain aspects to be discussed if they do not fit within your views of Anti-Zionism versus Anti-Semitism. I made it quite clear in my OP what my intentions were yet you continued to ask me what were my intentions as if I should not be discussing this topic in the fashion that I have.

After reading other posts from you, I believe you deserve to be recognized as Not being a hate monger.

I re-read your opening post and believe your intent was to show that Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Your list from the Wiesenthal Center is, solely, intended to prove your point by including people who do not qualify as Anti-Semites. If this is your intent I am fully with you but please correct me if I am misinterpreting.

The only question I wonder is why did you choose to name the thread not relaying that intent, if I understood correctly. In short, should we discussing here the list, or, the difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism?

In my opinion it's pretty obvious that I do not monger hate. As previously mentioned I do not dislike anyone due to race or religion.

You are mostly correct about my intentions as I did want to point out the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism and the agenda driven actions of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. We should be discussing both the list and the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism as this helps filter facts from the propaganda that has been included on this list.

In my opinion, the title of the thread should not define the whole OP. The OP should be read in it's entirety before members form an opinion instead of people basing their opinion strictly on the thread title alone. I am not accusing you of this as you clearly have not done this and your participation in this thread has been a valuable contribution and I thank you for your insight and civility.

There have been many times where I have had people post their opinions in my threads strictly based on the title alone without actually adressing any of the content provided in the actual OP. This happens quite often and I find this tactic to be very disrespectful and those who do this are certainly not helping deny ignorance.

In your defense, I do have a lack of creativity when it comes to choosing thread titles, perhaps I could have been more careful in choosing my title. Personally, I believe I do a better job explaining my opinions in the actual post versus the title of the thread. I must admit that I believe that my intentions of what I wanted to be discussed were rather clear but perhaps I am incorrect and did not relay my opinions as clearly as I could have as several members have been confused about what my intentions actually were.

In my opinion this list has an obvious agenda and was intended for certain audiences. People such as myself who do not buy into the propaganda were most likely not the target audience for this list. Regardless of my opinion of this list the Simon Wiesenthal Center has every right to publish these lists of theirs but that also means we have every right to question this list, it's content, and it's intentions.

I'm confident that some of those listed deserve to be on that list, but in my opinion some of those who made the list were carefully placed for agenda driven reasons, such as the Iranian regime and the cartoonists and media who speak out against Israeli actions that are deemed unacceptable according to international law among other factors such as humanitarian reasons. Criticizing Netanyahu should not be considered Anti-Semitism or Israel hating. Netanyahu and his colleagues do not represent all of Israel as many Israelis do not agree with their current and past administrations.

So to label those who criticize the Israeli government as Anti-Semites or Israel haters is simply wrong in my opinion and is part of the reason why I authored this thread. Once again I must add that there were Anti-Semites and Israel haters on that list so it was not completely false, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center's definition of Anti-Semitism is flawed in my opinion.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
I'm confident that some of those listed deserve to be on that list, but in my opinion some of those who made the list were carefully placed for agenda driven reasons, such as the Iranian regime and the cartoonists and media who speak out against Israeli actions ...

Now that I better understand where you're coming from I am fully behind you. What threw me off at first was the appearance of the poster, the difficulty to interpret the list (and the title). This is just me personally but, even now I am not particularly interested in the list because, there is, especially with a topic like this one, so much misinformation (on both sides) that I find it difficult to discern which is true, and which is mere conjecture. To have an opinion of my own, rather than repeating somebody's (mis?)interpretation is almost impossible. How can one form an opinion but be unbiased?

Maybe I am willing to go one step further than you. What if I say, "It is okay to be anti-Israel and anti-supporters of Israel as long as it is okay for Israelis to be anti-palestinian"? I am not sure of the answer for myself. But I believe it should be okay to discuss sensitive topics. What would be the risk? Could there be WWIII because we did not make it illegal to talk about this topic? Will Hungary pass laws that discriminate?

If Israeli citizens want to make it illegal in their country, Israel, to discuss certain aspects of history the government can pass such law. Why do Israelis believe they can impose what people discuss or not discuss in other countries? I posted a link to a law passed by the California State Assembly doing just that. To me it means that foreign interests have an amazing, and mostly unnoticed, stranglehold on public opinion in the US.

Did the war not end nearly 70 years ago? Or has it been replaced by a cold war? Jewish people are a tremendously talented group of people with many Nobel Prizes, great financial power, lawyers, doctors and politicians in many countries. Do they really need to be afraid of being discriminated against? If we can have a discussion about Israeli foreign policy, possible misinterpretation of historic records, and perhaps even accuse them of something they maybe uncomfortable with, then maybe there will be even fewer anti-semites in the first place. Could we find a more effective way to deal with their irrational actions, rather than having to make the discussion illegal?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

You are mostly correct about my intentions as I did want to point out the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism and the agenda driven actions of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. We should be discussing both the list and the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism as this helps filter facts from the propaganda that has been included on this list.

Exactly what I have been trying to do all along. Now: what is the difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism? How can one discern whether someone is making Anti-Zionist statements or Anti-Semitic statements. Is it possible to be an Anti-Semitic Zionist? A Judeophile Anti-Zionist?

Originally posted by DJW001


Exactly what I have been trying to do all along. Now: what is the difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism? How can one discern whether someone is making Anti-Zionist statements or Anti-Semitic statements. Is it possible to be an Anti-Semitic Zionist? A Judeophile Anti-Zionist?

In the same way that one can discern the difference between criticism and hate about anybody. Can we not criticize the former Soviet Union or current China without being chastised as Russian haters or haters of Chinese people? Why would there be a need for a different standard?

Simon Wiesenthal is not simply not credible. According to his own biography he enjoyed double rations from the Waffen SS. Listen to the 4 hours of Mae Brussell commentary on Simon Wiesenthal. She doesn't hold back any punches AND SHE:S A HEBREW!~! Be sure to listen to ALL 4 PARTS!

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

You are mostly correct about my intentions as I did want to point out the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism and the agenda driven actions of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. We should be discussing both the list and the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism as this helps filter facts from the propaganda that has been included on this list.

Exactly what I have been trying to do all along. Now: what is the difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism? How can one discern whether someone is making Anti-Zionist statements or Anti-Semitic statements. Is it possible to be an Anti-Semitic Zionist? A Judeophile Anti-Zionist?

I believe ThinkingHuman answered your question quite well in this post...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would like to add that I would like to your know your opinion on what are the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism, or do you believe there are no differences between the two?

For example, there are many Jews who are against Zionism, and the state of Israel...Jews against Zionism is a perfect example. Here in Canada, there are many Jews who stand in solidarity with the Palestinians as they consider the Palestinians to be Semitic brethren regardless of different religions.

Here are a couple videos you might like/dislike which help elaborate the point I am making :

Canadian Jews Protest Netanyahu and declare that Zionism is anti-Judaism



Rabbi Dovid Feldman Speaking in Toronto Against Israeli Attack on Gaza - 15Nov2012



Would you Consider this prominent and well respected Rabbi to an Anti-Semite or Jew hater?

In my opinion he clearly is not, mostly since he is a Jew.

Agree or disagree?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Thanks for the videos

I don't have time to watch them all right now but have them bookmarked for later viewing.

There is no doubt in my mind that Simon Wiesenthal and the organization named after him are agenda driven and use their influence to sway public opinion on certain matters, mostly the Israel/Palestine question and the holocaust.

No, I am not denying the holocaust as it was a terrible thing and certainly did happen, but most people are not aware of all the facts behind it which have been discussed and debated in various threads and I rather not turn this thread into a holocaust discussion as it seems we are finally back on track.

To counter my own argument, there are various organizations that are agenda driven, in fact most are so when I point out the Simon Wiesenthal Center's agenda I am not implying they are the only organization out there performing these actions as there are propaganda machines from all sides, some worse than others.

Thank you for your participation in this thread, you have made many great points!

reply to post by Merlin Lawndart



Very powerful videos.
Thankyou, is my 2nd line.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I would like to add that I would like to your know your opinion on what are the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism, or do you believe there are no differences between the two?

I have absolutely no idea what the neologism "Anti-Zionism" means. Once you define it for me, we can have an intelligent discussion.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

Simon Wiesenthal is not simply not credible.

Simon Wiesenthal is as dead as Richard Nixon. Your attacking his credibility to dismiss the Wiesenthal Center's opinion is like attacking the reputation of Warren G. Harding to discount the Harding Institute.

reply to post by DJW001

I have absolutely no idea what the neologism "Anti-Zionism" means.

I suggest you do some serious research then.

Once you define it for me, we can have an intelligent discussion.

You have already acknowledged your understanding of Zionism in this post...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you understand the meaning of the word "Anti".

Once you stop your childish uncessecary, circular, deflective arguments we can then proceed to have an intelligent discussion.

Once again you have been EXPOSED.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I suggest you do some serious research then.

My research suggests that it is a phrase coined by Anti-Semites to justify their hate. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

I suggest you do some serious research then.

My research suggests that it is a phrase coined by Anti-Semites to justify their hate. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong, Zionism is a political movement that has hijacked Judaism to justify the formation of Israel and used to forward the Zionist agenda. Anyone who criticizes this is labeled an Anti-Semite.

Consider yourself corrected.

You conveniently (cowardly I might add) forgot to acknowledge the videos I posted several posts ago. I asked your opinion on them yet you ignored me, again.

I will repost just in case you missed it.

Here are a couple videos you might like/dislike which help elaborate the point I am making :

Canadian Jews Protest Netanyahu and declare that Zionism is anti-Judaism



Rabbi Dovid Feldman Speaking in Toronto Against Israeli Attack on Gaza - 15Nov2012



Would you Consider this prominent and well respected Rabbi to an Anti-Semite or Jew hater?

In my opinion he clearly is not, mostly since he is a Jew.

Agree or disagree?

According to your severely flawed logic this Rabbi who is Anti-Zionist is actually an Anti Semite who hates Jews and uses the word Zionist to justify his Jew hatred

DJ, you are all over the place man, which one is it?

Originally posted by DJW001
Just out of curiosity, what do you propose should be done to all the Israelis if and when the Arab Palestinians regain their homeland? Should they be sorted out by degree of secularism? Allegiance to Zionist principles? Ethnic origins? Then what? Move them to Norway? Give the really Zionist ones a place to live in your home? Seriously, what is your ultimate solution to the Israel question?

As I said on page 7 of this thread, I believe Zionism is a conspiracy, like other religions (and false flag attacks) have been used to generate justification to go to war and/or to give power to a small group of people.

Anti-Zionism is sanity. The ability to see this for what it is. A rational person will oppose a movement based on religious motivation to a foreign country that is already populated by people who hold different belief. Where they will live surrounded by, and next door to, their enemies. Israelis were set up. They walked into the trap.

You view Anti-Zionism with fear, that Israelis may lose their homeland, they may be sent back to a country they have never seen.

It doesn't matter what Zionism really means.A lot of people are against the regime occupying the land,regardless of their religion,origins or believes...They could have been Hindus for all we care...The main thing is that they have an aggressive motivation to rule the world and to a degree they have accomplished that ....Besides,the fact that they consider all the others as Goyim is just unacceptable and rude....Same people who own most banks and corporations are also responsible for backing Zionism from the beginning all through the present Zionist regime..No matter what we call them.

Originally posted by shapur
It doesn't matter what Zionism really means.A lot of people are against the regime occupying the land,regardless of their religion,origins or believes...They could have been Hindus for all we care...The main thing is that they have an aggressive motivation to rule the world and to a degree they have accomplished that ....Besides,the fact that they consider all the others as Goyim is just unacceptable and rude....Same people who own most banks and corporations are also responsible for backing Zionism from the beginning all through the present Zionist regime..No matter what we call them.

Would you please care to explain what I shall charitably describe as your "comments"?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

You are wrong, Zionism is a political movement that has hijacked Judaism to justify the formation of Israel and used to forward the Zionist agenda. Anyone who criticizes this is labeled an Anti-Semite.

And what is the Zionist agenda?

Consider yourself corrected.

You still have not explained what you mean by "Anti-Zionism" or "the Zionist agenda." You have not corrected me, you have sidestepped me.

You conveniently (cowardly I might add) forgot to acknowledge the videos I posted several posts ago. I asked your opinion on them yet you ignored me, again.

Sorry, I don't have a sound card at the moment, so I don't know what the videos actually say. By their dress, I assume they are from an Eastern European messianic sect. Some of these sects have extremely unorthodox beliefs, such as Prague being the Holy Land. Do they use the phrase "Anti-Zionist" to refer to themselves? In any event, non-Anti-Semites using the phrase does not preclude its use by Anti-Semites attempting to cloak their own opinions.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

You view Anti-Zionism with fear, that Israelis may lose their homeland, they may be sent back to a country they have never seen.

No, I simply view the phrase "Anti-Zionism" with suspicion. Is it fair to uproot people from their native land and deport them to a land their ancestors fled from?

Originally posted by DJW001
No, I simply view the phrase "Anti-Zionism" with suspicion. Is it fair to uproot people from their native land and deport them to a land their ancestors fled from?

Especially when those lands indulged in pogroms and murder.