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Originally posted by jimmiec
reply to post by daskakik
Socialism has a few different forms. You aspouse to know which form the current or next administration would choose? Or would they just play it by ear and see what they get? Their version may look nothing like what you envision.
Originally posted by daskakik
Originally posted by hawkiye
Anyone else tired of all the little wannabe commies trying to redefine socialism/communism/fascism and then argue endlessly that we do not know what the definition of socialism is and then post a wiki page as their reference... Sigh!
Actually it was the OP that posted the wiki page as reference and while socialism/communism may be interchangeable, fascism is something completely different, which pretty much proves that you don't know what these words mean. Sorry, just saying.
www.merriam-webster.com...
so·cial·ism noun ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
Definition of SOCIALISM
1
: ANY of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is NO PRIVATE PROPERTY
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon. But when brought within the orbit of the State, Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State.
We uphold moral and traditional values which Socialism neglects or despises; but, above all, Fascism has a horror of anything implying an arbitrary mortgage on the mysterious future.
Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by hawkiye
Fascism is anti-socialist and anti-communist so the terms are not interchangeable. Nazis used the term socialist to gain popularity with the workers then turned on them. They could have been Fascist or Socialist but not both.
Later, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership and public services to the private sector. In doing so, they went against the mainstream trends in the Western capitalist countries, none of which systematically reprivatized firms during the 1930s. Privatization in Nazi Germany was also unique in transferring to private hands the delivery of public services previously provided by government.
Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by hawkiye
Actually it doesn't fit the Nazis:
Later, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership and public services to the private sector. In doing so, they went against the mainstream trends in the Western capitalist countries, none of which systematically reprivatized firms during the 1930s. Privatization in Nazi Germany was also unique in transferring to private hands the delivery of public services previously provided by government.
Nazi privatization in 1930s Germany
Private property in the industry of the Third Reich is often considered a mere nominal provision without much substance. However, that is not correct, because firms, despite the rationing and licensing activities of the state, still had ample scope to devise their own production and investment profiles. Even regarding war-related projects, freedom of contract was generally respected; instead of using power, the state offered firms a number of contract options to choose from. There were several motives behind this attitude of the regime, among them the conviction that private property provided important incentives for increasing efficiency.
www.econlib.org...
As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s),..
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions...
The fascist leaders’ antagonism to communism has been misinterpreted as an affinity for capitalism. In fact, fascists’ anticommunism was motivated by a belief that in the collectivist milieu of early-twentieth-century Europe, communism was its closest rival for people’s allegiance. As with communism, under fascism, every citizen was regarded as an employee and tenant of the totalitarian, party-dominated state. Consequently, it was the state’s prerogative to use force, or the threat of it, to suppress even peaceful opposition...
Hitler’s regime eliminated small corporations and made membership in cartels mandatory.1 The Reich Economic Chamber was at the top of a complicated bureaucracy comprising nearly two hundred organizations organized along industry, commercial, and craft lines, as well as several national councils. The Labor Front, an extension of the Nazi Party, directed all labor matters, including wages and assignment of workers to particular jobs. Labor conscription was inaugurated in 1938...
Any true concerted effort to remove the 2nd Amendment will be basically the end to what we have in America.
Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by hawkiye
International bankers sounds very capitalist to me. They just have to keep the upper hand and in a free market they are free to use whatever they can.
Political ideals can have many things in common but still not be the same because of small differences. The US is capitalist and the whole country has to follow the Constitution. In that regard they are the same as the fascist but it doesn't make the two ideals the same.
edit on 24-12-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by hawkiye
What utter nonsense. We have anything but a world free market that is just more bankster propaganda that weak minds eat up. The US has not been a capitalist society for at least 70 years and the constitution is all but ignored these days. Which makes us fascist socialist but has nothing to do with the constitution which if adhered to we would still be free...
Originally posted by daskakik
Originally posted by hawkiye
What utter nonsense. We have anything but a world free market that is just more bankster propaganda that weak minds eat up. The US has not been a capitalist society for at least 70 years and the constitution is all but ignored these days. Which makes us fascist socialist but has nothing to do with the constitution which if adhered to we would still be free...
The thing that you don't get is that the world has always been like this. The idea that the US was ever really free and capitalist is also bankster propaganda.edit on 24-12-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SaltireWarrior
Socialism in it's simplest form is a redistribution of wealth.
Why do you Americans cling to capitalism that serves only a few?