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Is money the actual problem

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posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:09 PM
When I was in high school a history teacher of mine was explaining the meaning of value over worth. See value is only how the holder determines it. For instance your child draws a picture of the family and the family dog with crayons.. To you this picture has a lot of value but to me this picture has no value. Worth is measured as in, this house is worth a fortune! So on.

But personally, worth is nothing more than a distorted idea of value. You see money can actually be worthless but we as humans find value in money. Our collective value in money is what creates the worth of it.

If you aren't one of the ones distracted you would realize how everything is geared towards making money. The news stories are geared towards only what will sell. In a way the news glamorizes such tragedies by saying "this one was even worst than the last" as if there is a competition going or something. It is hard to explain what I am trying to say in this part unless you already have some understanding. But on to the next point

Alright imagine us as a society as mice in a cage. The owner of these mice often drop shiny pebbles into the cage for the mice. These shiny pebbles in reality have no importance, but to the mice, these shiny pebbles are kept and traded for food, water, shelter, etc. In reality these shiny pebbles can not be eaten, used for shelter, used for water, or anything productive to the life of the mouse rather than being bound to the amount of shiny pebbles this mouse possesses. If the shiny pebbles were never introduced then shelter, water sources, and food sources would have been built collectively. As in collectively for the population of the mice rather than single shelters for each individual mouse. The food would be shared and so would the water, and the production and gathering of these goods would be determined by how the mouse wants to benefit the survival of his community.

See right now I hold in front of me a dollar bill. In reality the dollar bill is nothing put a piece of cloth with ink on it. It only has value to me because supposedly it has worth. But what really is worth? Because this piece of paper isn't even backed by the shiny pebbles. Instead it is backed by the word of another set of individuals who find value in it. So when everyone who is destroying the community in a sense in order to make this dollar bill, aren't we really chasing an illusion? An illusion that this dollar bill actually has value, or even worth?

This dollar bill can buy food, shelter, and water. (Well a lot of dollars but you get the point). But what is important is food shelter and water.. Not inked money.. So how is it that these shiny pebbles could have any value or worth whatsoever if it is nothing but an illusion?

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:17 PM
Also, I have poor writing skills so please forgive me.. I'm more of the math guy rather than the writer..

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:19 PM
reply to post by Pelvi

Dear Pelvi,

Money, gold, silver, these are all merely promises. They represent the promise of labor and materials. They are a convenient way of keeping track of debt.

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:25 PM
Keep digging...

You are on the right track.

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:35 PM
reply to post by AQuestion

Yes but see the only reason these promises need to be made is because there is no community effort behind it. For instance diamond, almost every american woman has one. There are many other benefits to diamonds rather than being used for self worth. If things were based community wise then they would have no worth. The only value would be that of creating structures using diamond to cut, and other task. Which once again these structures would be for community rather than labor.

The individualization of self worth is what these diamonds are primarily used for, something that has no use to the livelihood of an individual. Gold's only use is in technology, most technology has gold inside of it. But besides that what use is gold that is horded? I understand what the promise/purpose of these metals are.. But the reality is that this promise/purpose is man made.

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:41 PM
reply to post by Pelvi

Thumbs up on the writing skills...

My two cents:

Money might be the root, but our adoration towards it is IMO the problem...

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:44 PM
Money is a Con. and it the biggest Con because it does exactly to opposite of what we are told it does

"Creates fairness"

Also money is a big pyramid scheme with the richest people on the top, and they are not moving, even the richest people at the top have been the riches people for over 100's of years.

The only way a economy can survive (Company A) is if it finds somewhere for cheap labour, but most western countries can't do that because of "Minimum wage" so they out source to other countries these countries hardly have any regulations in practise they use dangerous equipment children work and all this can be for up 22 hours a day.

To me that is not fairness, what so ever, in fact it is the opposite. But if them 3rd world countries did start to have regulations and laws put in place the money would go up as would their wages due to a minimum wage and it would be pointless to outsource to since (Company A) would not make enough money.

So what you are seeing is basicly western companies trying to earn as much money as possible for as cheap as possible so they can pay their employees a "Fair" wage.

Do you really think people would go out their way to commit crimes if they knew no their would be no money pay off in the start, middle or end?

Is money fair for the people dying in Sierra Lone mining for diamonds so they can barley put food on the table?

Sierra Leone should have been one of the world’s richest countries, being blessed with resources, including gold and diamonds. However, it remains one of the world’s poorest countries, ranking 203 out of 206 countries by World Development Report.Wealth that diamonds should have brought is not evident,

Is money fair to the 9 year old prostitutes in India that are forced to go onto the streets by their mother because if she doesn't force her they will starve to death?

Money is phacked up concept that has lasted 1000's or years and we have seamed to out grown it as a species but the powers that be want it, because with out it they are nothing.

And for that reason alone it will stay.
edit on 16-12-2012 by definity because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:48 PM
reply to post by Pelvi


The root of all evil is the love of money. Not the actual money ? Never the less get rid of the money and solve the worlds problems. I'll roll with you on that.
edit on 16-12-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:54 PM

Originally posted by TheUltraFantastic
reply to post by Pelvi

Money might be the root, but our adoration towards it is IMO the problem...

Good point there, I watched a documentary that was made in North Korea last night by a psychologist. The documentary was about propaganda in the western culture. Now this video had many good points but it also had a lot of propaganda in it itself so I had a positive negative feeling towards it. Well what I'm calling propaganda may actually be true but it is the hints trying to be given that are slipped in. Here is the video that brushes with what you're saying. This video is also what got me thinking a little more intensely of the subject.

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 10:56 PM
reply to post by definity

Once again what you have said relates to the video I just posted.

I'm not quite sure how money is there to create fairness rather than create dependence.

posted on Dec, 16 2012 @ 11:08 PM
Those who love money will die pennyless because you can't take it with you. Their life will never be tranquil, they will work hard to acquire wealth and work hard to try to spend it before they die. If they hoard it their kids will detest money and work hard to quickly spend it till it is gone. These people are what the creators of capitalism count on being there. They often become martyrs for teenagers and young adults. This makes this whole system work, which is kind of crazy really.

I see value in things we need, not in things we are told are valuable. We need food, shelter, warmth, and companionship. We need someone to love also. Wealth is in knowing that you can feel secure in the future. Having these things makes me very rich. I surround myself with worthless junk, junk I received from other people I knew. Maybe the stuff has no value to most but every bit of it contains memories to me. That's all right with me, If you need everything new and the best then go ahead. Hopefully you will find what is important someday before you have to leave this world.

I hope to live on in the minds of those who remember me or speak of me after I die. I know I won't be remembered as long as Jesus, Buddha, or Mohammad have been remembered. If I get remembered for ten years after I die I will be happy.. Hopefully I will not be hated by anyone because I do not desire negative memories. I try to make my legacy good, not bad.

posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 12:44 AM
reply to post by Pelvi

It is true that value is in the eye of the beholder. The reason our money has value is because everyone agrees that a dollar is worth about a dollar more or less.

Not only is the dollar not backed by shiny pebbles, it actually represents a DEBT!!! Money is essentially created by loans with the agreement that all of it is to be repaid, PLUS INTEREST!! The secret is that the interest is never printed for the system. As the system's money supply gets lower, they lower the rates creating demand for loans, which inject the system with more money, but total debt also keeps rising. The money system is in reality an endless cycle of debt.

This has been the case since 1971 when the United States officially decoupled the money from gold. Before, your money was basically a recipt for 'x' amount of gold widely believed to be held at Fort Knox.

It is true that gold is another fiat currency, but the benefit of it is that the supply of gold cannot be manipulated nearly as easily by the money-hungry people in control of the monetary system. With just a few keystrokes they can create billions of dollars from thin air.

Right now they have the rates at historic lows to get more money into the system and banks are sufficiently capitalized but the trickle-down philosophy has proven to be a failure.

Our money is backed by something. It is the "Full Faith and Credit of the United States." Once you lose the value in that, it's not much more than pieces of green cloth.

posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 08:25 AM
You never mentioned what the problem was. Personally, I don't believe there is one. Money is, as you said, valuab) e in it's ability to ensure survival in an organized society. I think it would be cool though if we all went back to hunting and gathering and all the power was distributed evenly among each individual. No rules. But, that's not to say that there's any problem with the way things are now. I just think it would be interesting, that's all. But that's coming from a guy who thinks it would be cool to reincarnate as a praying mantis. Humans have their place in the grand scheme of things too.

I'm glad the world is the way it is. No exceptions. Peace.

posted on Dec, 17 2012 @ 03:01 PM
reply to post by Pelvi

See, all you have is within you.

posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:54 AM
Neither money, nor the things it can buy have value. Either way, we will all for sure die.

posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:48 PM
besides being a means to enslavement such as capitalism. money keeps back man's progress and development on both a global as well as a personal scale.

one child is born to a empoverished family and can barely afford to get to school much less the books and clothing. he goes to school looking 'less' to the other kids in their materialistic mindset who pick on him for his appearance which is no fault of his own that he could not wear nice threads and clothes or have the latest iphone. he may unfortunately drop out of school or commit suicide. but that same child could've created the cure for cancer given the same opportunity as others who have it all as far as material possessions go.

on a global scale you can see money is a hinderance in operations. companies delay implementing new security because of the cost.. thus all the customer accounts get hacked and the customers all suffer as a result.

water.. the supply of water is nothing that can be wasted. unless contaminated beyond being drinkable. however.. leaving the tap on is not wasting water. it is in fact.. wasting money. the money the water company has to spend to pump the water to your home with their equipment, the cost of maintaining and upgrading the equipment etc. the more u use it the faster it breaks down causing them to spend more money to provide you with something that is freely available.

if i was unclear about anything u can let me know.. ive been in a rather vague explanatory mood lately.

but yes.. gold, silver and diamonds are nothing more than shiny rocks.. the same as cavemen would collect and take to the cave for their cavemate. she'd stash the shiny rocks and fancy shells. however, the question remains.. what is it worth to her when she's dead.

i would work for free if all my basic necessities were covered for as well as any experiences i wish to explore. learning the tech behind the new iphone, the experience of driving a hot car, sitting in a college class about space navigation or going to learn to be a vet at a top college without the hinderance of the cost factor.

all that keeps these things away from the masses is cost. as a result ppl are denied experiences, advancements etc because they could not afford. but one may have found a way to use an iphone as a particle accelerator by having one to play with (just saying). we dont know how many we have denied the opportunity to contribute to the evolution and development of mankind and the world, and as a result.. have denied ourselves.

"help me to help you, cause me pain to cause urself pain."
edit on 19-12-2012 by 0mage because: (no reason given)

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