Surprising Encounter Of Peculiar Nature

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Brighter

 

looks like a duck
walks like a duck
quacks like a duck
swims like a duck
water rolls off its back like a duck

You're welcome to call it a Pterodactyl if you want, remain objectively neutral, or any other stance you've ivory towered, but, I'm calling it a duck.

You DO understand what a simile is, right? Saying it is LIKE a duck doesn't make it a duck. But I'm just splitting hairs at this point.

Originally posted by Brighter

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

What you describe is typical Sleep Paralysis.
You can read my own experience with sleep paralysis HERE among feedback from others.
You can also ATS search "sleep paralysis" and find a number of accounts describing seeing 'beings', or feeling a presence.
The buzzing, paralysis, and fear are very common elements to sleep paralysis.

Additionally, there's this interesting paper you may want to read:
Transcultural Psychiatry - Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction

You can, of course, ignore the body of material that's examined this phenomenon in favor of a more magical explanation, but, to each their own.

It's a pretty elementary error to assume that, because a phenomena has been given a convenient moniker ("Sleep Paralysis") and simply defined as a list of symptoms, that this suffices as a satisfying explanation. A similar error occurs when you dismiss an explanation out of hand by simply placing the word "magical" next to it. What these tactics do, rather than elucidate a phenomenon, is to subtly obscure it by an appeal to authority.

It's also an error to assume that, because an experience can be induced in a laboratory, that the experience is of something imaginary. The implicit logical move here is that what is subjectively experienced is non-real. And that's a pretty hefty assumption that I'm willing to bet that you have no justification for. It is, however, perfectly justifiable within a purely materialist framework, as this framework conveniently assumes this.

In either one of those cases, you haven't come close to explaining the non-reality of the beings that were experienced in those situations, but these confused thoughts actually elucidate some common fundamental assumptions that people make as they think through these issues.

How is this an "elementary error" to assume Sleep Paralysis as a good possiblity when the entire happening was within the time frame of sleeping? Given the description, what's an equally plausible answer? Actual visitation by an alien being? Slipping into the 4th+ dimension?

I can have dreams in which I awake and remember exact details of a person or being in that dream. So, that in itself doesn't give a good argument for something real.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Brighter

 

Hmmm. That's fine and all.
Your effort to muddy the waters is commendable.

However, as observed, reported, and experienced historically, as well as contemporarily under controlled monitored conditions;
looks like a duck
walks like a duck
quacks like a duck
swims like a duck
water rolls off its back like a duck

You're welcome to call it a Pterodactyl if you want, remain objectively neutral, or any other stance you've ivory towered, but, I'm calling it a duck.

Well that's simply a false analogy, as last I checked we were all pretty clear on what a duck is, whereas it's far from clear what is taking place in these experiences.

And I'm not sure how I 'muddied the waters'. I just tried to show how your explanation was incomplete as it made some enormous assumptions that you never justified. And I'm pretty sure that said explanations more accurately qualify as muddying the waters, as they attempt to hide from view some really important basic assumptions.

In general, your post was just a terse explanation that ended by belittling this person's interpretation of their experience (by calling it a "magical" explanation). When someone opens up like this, I think we'd all appreciate it if you'd please refrain from the derogatory remarks.

Originally posted by Brighter

Well that's simply a false analogy, as last I checked we were all pretty clear on what a duck is, whereas it's far from clear what is taking place in these experiences.

And I'm not sure how I 'muddied the waters'. I just tried to show how your explanation was incomplete as it made some enormous assumptions that you never justified. And I'm pretty sure that said explanations more accurately qualify as muddying the waters, as they attempt to hide from view some really important basic assumptions.

In general, your post was just a terse explanation that ended by belittling this person's interpretation of their experience (by calling it a "magical" explanation). When someone opens up like this, I think we'd all appreciate it if you'd please refrain from the derogatory remarks.

It's so adorable how you make these decrees and proclamations of law.
False analogy?
We're all pretty clear on what a duck is?
Are you sure about that?

Last I checked we've a substantial body of evidence regarding ducks through observation, representative sampling, as well as prodigious documentation, but, people have actually had DREAMS about ducks.
If people are having dreams about ducks then it may merit further investigation into the body of evidence pertaining to ducks such that ducks may have had us fooled all along.
We may need ascertain whether or not ducks have access to a hitherto unknown and unimagined technology that allows ducks to enter peoples' dreams.

Thus, when people awake suddenly to the experience of buzzing, fear, paralysis, and the presence of a duck, we should certainly make absolutely no assumption based on sleep studies and all the other bodies of evidence regarding such phenomenon that it's just a personal subjective experience. We should instead leave room that there may in fact actually be an argument for technologically advanced water fowl entering and disturbing our dreams, possibly doing so with alarm since we're at our most vulnerable while sleeping.

Sounds legit to me.

About the same thing happened to me. Originally I suspected that the fear, dread, and horror I felt was an emanation from the entity, but I now believe it was my own interpretation.

I believe that as beings grow towards godliness, they can grow in two ways. They can grow as beings who think they are the full manifestation of God, or they can grow as beings who see that God is equally distributed throughout all beings. The former being the power driven dominating type, and the latter being the compassion driven, allowing freedom type.

Either type is justifiable to the absolute. The absolute creates both and nothing by accident.

I have had the same thing happen to me but at the time I could feel that the fear was being projected from the being almost like an electric current. I came to the conclusion that it is the fear itself that they want or rather the bi product of fear. It is an extraction procedure. We have resources that we need and so do they.

Originally posted by Bilky
I have had the same thing happen to me but at the time I could feel that the fear was being projected from the being almost like an electric current. I came to the conclusion that it is the fear itself that they want or rather the bi product of fear. It is an extraction procedure. We have resources that we need and so do they.

It does make you wonder as to what potentials we truly hold within ourselves But ! we are a type of race that needs change and change happens at a certain stage at an influx event of some kind. Typical I know but... I do hope someday such an event will take place, an event that will bring forth great change in human nature.

By the way I love your caption
That is what I was precisely screaming to my mum when I rode my bike with no handle bars Stupidity at its finest I tell you that

End result = chipped front tooth and a grazed knee, thankfully no head injuries or broken limbs. What can I say I was young and dumb

Originally posted by Brighter

In general, your post was just a terse explanation that ended by belittling this person's interpretation of their experience (by calling it a "magical" explanation). When someone opens up like this, I think we'd all appreciate it if you'd please refrain from the derogatory remarks.

Brighter it's ok you do not need to defend me or my experience, I do not really care about judgement and I do not blame them as I say "For all have judged and were judged in their life". It is part of our human nature/conditioning/existence, I know it is wrong to judge others but how can we judge those that judge us ?

Everyone is entitled to their judgements and their opinions for it is not about that, what is important is the message of the person who was willing to share that counts and everything else is like appetizers. Human existence is like a delicate flower that must be nurtured properly in order to bloom at its finest beauty. We all got skeletons in our closets and we all share the same conditioning.

Thank you for defending me and standing up to me, but... please understand that there is no need to and what most importantly that should be known is that "Sharing is caring "

So. Just the simple knowledge of knowing that the person was willing enough to stop and read the experience. Is enough for me to know that they were willing to listen which in itself is a great thing to give "Understanding".

Thank you

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

What you describe is typical Sleep Paralysis.
You can read my own experience with sleep paralysis HERE among feedback from others.
You can also ATS search "sleep paralysis" and find a number of accounts describing seeing 'beings', or feeling a presence.
The buzzing, paralysis, and fear are very common elements to sleep paralysis.

Additionally, there's this interesting paper you may want to read:
Transcultural Psychiatry - Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction

You can, of course, ignore the body of material that's examined this phenomenon in favor of a more magical explanation, but, to each their own.

"Curiosity is the greatest gift that we are given" ~ However, we also must not take it so lightly as at times curiosity did kill the cat.

However, I still thank you for sharing and provision of the material

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by Brighter

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

What you describe is typical Sleep Paralysis.
You can read my own experience with sleep paralysis HERE among feedback from others.
You can also ATS search "sleep paralysis" and find a number of accounts describing seeing 'beings', or feeling a presence.
The buzzing, paralysis, and fear are very common elements to sleep paralysis.

Additionally, there's this interesting paper you may want to read:
Transcultural Psychiatry - Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction

You can, of course, ignore the body of material that's examined this phenomenon in favor of a more magical explanation, but, to each their own.

It's a pretty elementary error to assume that, because a phenomena has been given a convenient moniker ("Sleep Paralysis") and simply defined as a list of symptoms, that this suffices as a satisfying explanation. A similar error occurs when you dismiss an explanation out of hand by simply placing the word "magical" next to it. What these tactics do, rather than elucidate a phenomenon, is to subtly obscure it by an appeal to authority.

It's also an error to assume that, because an experience can be induced in a laboratory, that the experience is of something imaginary. The implicit logical move here is that what is subjectively experienced is non-real. And that's a pretty hefty assumption that I'm willing to bet that you have no justification for. It is, however, perfectly justifiable within a purely materialist framework, as this framework conveniently assumes this.

In either one of those cases, you haven't come close to explaining the non-reality of the beings that were experienced in those situations, but these confused thoughts actually elucidate some common fundamental assumptions that people make as they think through these issues.

How is this an "elementary error" to assume Sleep Paralysis as a good possiblity when the entire happening was within the time frame of sleeping? Given the description, what's an equally plausible answer? Actual visitation by an alien being? Slipping into the 4th+ dimension?

I can have dreams in which I awake and remember exact details of a person or being in that dream. So, that in itself doesn't give a good argument for something real.

Druscilla's explanation implied that, because there exists a condition called "Sleep Paralysis", that that is sufficient to prove that the experience is entirely imaginary. Yet isn't there a huge assumption here? The assumption being that what one subjectively experiences under certain conditions are entirely imaginary. In other words, the move is from subjective -> imaginary. And this and its justification is precisely what is at issue here, and it's also precisely what Druscilla's sleep paralysis explanation does not provide and simply assumes an answer for. You've simply assumed what you were trying to prove. Clear enough? There's no logical 'magic' going on here, just a reasonable request for an actual, non-circular argument as opposed to an unjustified proclamation, which is all the 'sleep paralysis' explanation is. Sure, conventional explanations like this make one feel nice and comfortable, but on the simplest examination they fail, and fail at the most critical point. The problem is that you're trying to make sleep paralysis do too much work - work it wasn't intended to do. You're trying to leverage a 10,000 lb. underlying philosophical assumption with a superficial 2 oz. explanation.

reply to post by Brighter


All your posts on this thread--very well said. It always irks me when the scientists have the most unscientific approach and fall back on a quick dismissal of highly subjective experiences.

Having a "I've seen it all" attitude is hardly befitting of a scientist.

I would say because that which you fear,has more control over you,than that which you perceive to be neutral? So if your mind is not clogged up in fear or panic,you have some degree of control? And That is why this being became frustrated? I know that feeling of waking up in the night,and it feels like something is Wrong,the athmosphere in the room,the quality of that quietness,like you're in a vacuum.I just think of it as "something wrong with the night".Matter of fact,this happened to me in the early hours of Monday morn-i woke from a bad nightmare(in my dream the time was 3:30,i was wearing a watch,which in reality i dont) and found the quality of the night to be like this-OFF,if you know what i mean.The nightmare was about vampires,in reality one of the very last things i'm afraid of,they never even enter my mind except when i watch Twilight with my daughter,and am irritated to distraction by Kristen Stewart's perpetual "Some one just shat on my dinnerplate" dreary depro expression.I looked at my cell,the actual time was 3:56.I was so disturbed that i even surprised myself by keeping my lamp on when i settled to sleep further.Ive never had any memory of an alienlooking character in my room,a shadow person once,that had the silhouette of my late father,thats what i had.I was'nt afraid of that,and after a few minutes of staring up at it,i turned my back to it+went to sleep,it never returned as far as i know.If it did,i didnt wake up for it again,anyway.

Originally posted by Brighter


Druscilla's explanation implied that, because there exists a condition called "Sleep Paralysis", that that is sufficient to prove that the experience is entirely imaginary. Yet isn't there a huge assumption here? The assumption being that what one subjectively experiences under certain conditions are entirely imaginary. In other words, the move is from subjective -> imaginary. And this and its justification is precisely what is at issue here, and it's also precisely what Druscilla's sleep paralysis explanation does not provide and simply assumes an answer for. You've simply assumed what you were trying to prove. Clear enough? There's no logical 'magic' going on here, just a reasonable request for an actual, non-circular argument as opposed to an unjustified proclamation, which is all the 'sleep paralysis' explanation is. Sure, conventional explanations like this make one feel nice and comfortable, but on the simplest examination they fail, and fail at the most critical point. The problem is that you're trying to make sleep paralysis do too much work - work it wasn't intended to do. You're trying to leverage a 10,000 lb. underlying philosophical assumption with a superficial 2 oz. explanation.

It's clear enough by your postings in general, that there are some underlying issues. While I would agree you can't put a definitive answer to what happened, you also can't write off so easily a reasonable explanation or suggestion. Especially when "The Magicians Apprentice" is telling a story with the entire context being sleep.

You of course didn't answer my question... What other equally plausible explanation would you put to this story? Surely you won't suggest it's an actual real event. He/she was visited by an alien being. No proof in that ever happening, at any time, with any person. In your own mind, you've effectively eliminated the sleep paralysis explanation, or at least given a good argument for yourself. I'm curious to know what explanation(s) you could put to this event. Suggestions.... or not?

reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice


Did the being look any like me avatar?

I've heard that they use fear, I don't know why, but they seem to be really good at it.
Maybe they don't want to use fear, but the fear is your own reaction at seeing the being.
Have you ever talked to one of these beings? I mean telepathically?

Honestly I do not think they have evil intentions. Maybe they are testing you? to see if you can handle them?

Originally posted by Brighter
Druscilla's explanation implied that, because there exists a condition called "Sleep Paralysis", that that is sufficient to prove that the experience is entirely imaginary. Yet isn't there a huge assumption here? The assumption being that what one subjectively experiences under certain conditions are entirely imaginary. In other words, the move is from subjective -> imaginary. And this and its justification is precisely what is at issue here, and it's also precisely what Druscilla's sleep paralysis explanation does not provide and simply assumes an answer for. You've simply assumed what you were trying to prove. Clear enough? There's no logical 'magic' going on here, just a reasonable request for an actual, non-circular argument as opposed to an unjustified proclamation, which is all the 'sleep paralysis' explanation is. Sure, conventional explanations like this make one feel nice and comfortable, but on the simplest examination they fail, and fail at the most critical point. The problem is that you're trying to make sleep paralysis do too much work - work it wasn't intended to do. You're trying to leverage a 10,000 lb. underlying philosophical assumption with a superficial 2 oz. explanation.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
It's clear enough by your postings in general, that there are some underlying issues.

Actually, the real issue is that you're incapable of providing any kind of rational justification for your beliefs. I realize that that's frustrating to come to terms with, but there's no need to lash out with ad hominem attacks. Everyone has to come to terms with this kind of thing eventually, some just weather it more gracefully than others.

In the end, it's pretty clear to anyone that you don't have a rational response to my objection. It's really not a difficult concept at all to grasp, so one can only assume that it's due to a psychological block, as you appear to be heavily invested in the canned explanations of 'popular skepticism'. And as with most consumers, they don't really understand how the product works - they just consume it.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
While I would agree you can't put a definitive answer to what happened, you also can't write off so easily a reasonable explanation or suggestion. Especially when "The Magicians Apprentice" is telling a story with the entire context being sleep.

But it's not a reasonable explanation, and that's exactly what I've been describing in some very unambiguous terms. What it is is a superficial explanation that doesn't carry the conceptual leverage to demonstrate that what is being experienced is not real.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
You of course didn't answer my question... What other equally plausible explanation would you put to this story? Surely you won't suggest it's an actual real event. He/she was visited by an alien being. No proof in that ever happening, at any time, with any person. In your own mind, you've effectively eliminated the sleep paralysis explanation, or at least given a good argument for yourself. I'm curious to know what explanation(s) you could put to this event. Suggestions.... or not?

This is because you haven't moved the conversation forward. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how your proposed sleep apnea explanation possesses the necessary conceptual apparatus to prove that what is subjectively experienced is not real. And if it doesn't, we'd all appreciate an independent argument for why this is so. You're the one claiming that it's a sufficient explanation. So prove it.

And try to avoid moving the the goal posts by saying something like: "But the opposite explanation isn't plausible." I'm asking you to independently defend your explanation, and this should be simple, as you seem to have an enormous amount of confidence in it. So the floor's all yours.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

What you describe is typical Sleep Paralysis.
You can read my own experience with sleep paralysis HERE among feedback from others.
You can also ATS search "sleep paralysis" and find a number of accounts describing seeing 'beings', or feeling a presence.
The buzzing, paralysis, and fear are very common elements to sleep paralysis.

Additionally, there's this interesting paper you may want to read:
Transcultural Psychiatry - Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction

You can, of course, ignore the body of material that's examined this phenomenon in favor of a more magical explanation, but, to each their own.

I have to agree. When I read the post, it certainly reminded me of my own sleep paralysis experiences. No one can say for sure what happened. Not even the OP given the subjective nature of experience. A good strong sleep paralysis experience will demonstrate that point for anyone. Of course, nothing demonstrates the point as well as our nightly dreams.

Originally posted by Jauk3
reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice

 

Did the being look any like me avatar?

I've heard that they use fear, I don't know why, but they seem to be really good at it.
Maybe they don't want to use fear, but the fear is your own reaction at seeing the being.
Have you ever talked to one of these beings? I mean telepathically?

Honestly I do not think they have evil intentions. Maybe they are testing you? to see if you can handle them?

Did the being look any like me avatar?

I would say 70-80% however, the skin looked more brighter and it looked a lot more smoother. Also it had no mouth which is why I assumed there must have been telepathic way of communication.

Have you ever talked to one of these beings? I mean telepathically?

As I stated when telepathic contact was being attempted I got knocked out by a massive bang. Which followed by static, ringing and me passing out. I have not yet decided to establish contact as due to the nature of the visit, which is why I do not want to open a door in my house to something that might possibly "Chip Me or even worse Probe Me "

Honestly I do not think they have evil intentions.

Well of-course not and you are right we are not to judge so quickly, I do think that in their race just like ours there are a few bad apples falling off the tree. Which is why I guess if a proper communication is to be ever established we must question their reasoning for the contact,intentions and goals for humanity.

Originally posted by Brighter

Actually, the real issue is that you're incapable of providing any kind of rational justification for your beliefs. I realize that that's frustrating to come to terms with, but there's no need to lash out with ad hominem attacks. Everyone has to come to terms with this kind of thing eventually, some just weather it more gracefully than others.

In the end, it's pretty clear to anyone that you don't have a rational response to my objection. It's really not a difficult concept at all to grasp, so one can only assume that it's due to a psychological block, as you appear to be heavily invested in the canned explanations of 'popular skepticism'. And as with most consumers, they don't really understand how the product works - they just consume it.

But it's not a reasonable explanation, and that's exactly what I've been describing in some very unambiguous terms. What it is is a superficial explanation that doesn't carry the conceptual leverage to demonstrate that what is being experienced is not real.

This is because you haven't moved the conversation forward. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how your proposed sleep apnea explanation possesses the necessary conceptual apparatus to prove that what is subjectively experienced is not real. And if it doesn't, we'd all appreciate an independent argument for why this is so. You're the one claiming that it's a sufficient explanation. So prove it.

And try to avoid moving the the goal posts by saying something like: "But the opposite explanation isn't plausible." I'm asking you to independently defend your explanation, and this should be simple, as you seem to have an enormous amount of confidence in it. So the floor's all yours.

Interesting response. You continue to be telling with your defensive, uptight postings. Maybe relax and take it down a notch? That actually would be the "graceful" way to handle it, don't you think? Anyway... You seem to be a little confused and addressing me as you were Druscilla. Remember, I'm not the one with the definitive answer of sleep paralysis, just the one commenting on and finding your obvious contempt, strange. You conveniently try to squirm your way out of giving any explanation, by, giving me the "floor" to defend my stance on sleep paralysis. I guess if I create a good enough defense and impression on you, only then, will you feel I'm worthy of an answer to my question. Quite a crafty way to avoid the question, but, a little silly and transparent. If you're so against Druscilla's sleep paralysis conclusion, instead of giving unnecessary verbose responses, add something to the thread and just give us an insight to what you give a possibility to. If you don't have one, just say so. Don't turn it into some silly game.

reply to post by The Magicians Apprentice


This is a really freaking experience. Are you still afraid today?

Originally posted by homeslice
1:11?

Cool story bro.

Yea I know that guy too.

Crazy.