Black Powder Revolvers and Rifles for Self Defense and Survival

It’s true that black powder revolvers and rifles are seldom thought of in this role, but they ARE a viable option.
Reasons to use Black Powder
First of all is cost, most cap and ball revolvers can be bought in the $200 to $300 range. This is far less than a cartridge gun. It is quite possible to have two or even three cap and ball revolvers for one cartridge gun. (During the Civil War many carried as many as eight revolvers on their persons.) To this you can add the fact that you can buy them and ship them legally right to your door without dealing with local Gun shops, thus reducing the price even further.
Further more with a casting pot and bullet mold you can cast up your own projectiles from wheel weights. (The stick on style are pure lead (soft) and the clip on style is mixed (hard). The soft lead is much more preferable but the hard lead can be used in a pinch.) The lead can be found at most tire sales facilities.
Black Powder or it’s equivalent can be found at many stores and for the number of shots you can get out of a pound it is very economical. in addition black powder is the easiest to make of all the propellents, a definite plus in a survival situation.
Most caps come in small metal containers that have been well sealed to stand up against humidity, but they can always be put into a vacuum bag and sealed for further use. There is currently a resurgence in reloading and primers are and will continue to be increasingly hard to find, but this reloading frenzy has yet to hit black powder caps and they are still reasonably priced and probably will continue to be so for while longer. One last thing about black powder caps… You can them yourself as well, if you know how. They are reasonably easy to manufacture and there are numerous ways, so pick one way and try it and then pick another and try that as well. Tap-a-cap is one easy way, it allows you to make workable caps out of beer cans and toy gun roll caps. READ MORE at bestmetalresearch.com

If I might make a quick note here? Survival in black powder weapons sounds good. The ranges here ring with the -Kaboom-'s of black powder rifles and pistols every year before the Deer Season set up for that begins.

The ranges also ring with the "Click.....'G^Y&@ Da&!% F$^* thing and Black Powder stu&*(&*( Sh@^&!"

^^ I hear it both every year I'm out on the same days to see them practicing and gearing up to hunt with them. So, I'd say it's a great idea for survival to hunt with......as long as no one would take survival with a Black Powder to mean split second life/death defense situations. Err....I'd imagine armies the world over rejoiced and never really stopped celebrating the death of this being used in that particular area of effort.

I have a friend who is really into black powder revolvers right now. I don't think you even have to register them or have a gun license to purchase one. I think that's what he told me.

I've shot them and there is no doubt they'll do the trick.

if you know what your doing with black powder then yes you will get the @3$% misfire, forget the powder, no cap or no spark if flint, if you know what you doing with semi or bolt action you still get misfire jams and the lost clip. any thing can and will happen when shooting, but yes Black powder is fine to use when #F.
think of this how will you make powder for your bolt and semi when they need smokeless, mine, simple, 3 part mix and some tin, some lead.
what will you do when you are out of ammo one well placed shot game is on the table, one well placed shot,... well who is dead and who is not

Silly, a blackpowder revolver vs a Hi Point 9mm.
Hi point costs around $100 US where a blackpowder you claim is 200 to 300...
Hi Point uses modern tested cartriges, other does not, it uses messy volatile black powder.
It takes a bit of doing to reload a bp revolver, a Hi Point, just takes a mag reload.
There are MANY other things that could be pointed out about how terrible a BP weapon truly is but I think you got the point.
If not, my tirade is to keep folks on the right track.
BTW, I have been using wheelweights since before you were born, soft lead has always fouled up barrels.
tin, lead, antimony is the key to a perfectly hardened bullet not what style wheel weight.
Black Powder is a horrible choice for self defense, but use what you got if you need to I guess.

(Edit)
To clear something up, you CAN use black powder in modern guns, you CANNOT use many modern powders in BP guns however, they are just not built to handle the extreme pressures.

reply to post by g146541


There is another major difference that just struck me in your Hi-Point vs BP match-up. The Hi-Point can fire ammunition that is very friendly about not making clouds for each round. BP tends to make it's own little smoke screen. I can't even begin to imagine the scene in the REAL battles..and not Hollywood mockups...for the Revolutionary War and Civil War. It must have been hopeless to see more than 100 yards within the first volleys the sides fired at each other.

So for telegraphing your position, I suppose nothing says it quite like the rank cloud that forms up from each cap and ball fired. Yikes! Hunting? Yes... People take deer every year and a .50 projectile out of a BP rifle using modern tech to design everything is no laughing matter to be sure. It sure isn't one to use when concealment matters though, eh?

Lead wheel weights are being phased out and alot of wheel weights that have lead are not pure lead. You'll need almost pure lead to make Conicals. Round balls could be made with a less pure lead(but they'll cut your range a considerable amount. Many tire places already have buyers or people asking for lead.

I love shooting Blackpowder, but like another posted, it is not really the most practical weapon to choose. In fact of all my firearms it would be my last choice.

P.S. Don't even think of using lead from batteries unless you have a death wish.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Mmmmmhm
You have seen the black powder outside, but inside, you just may choke to death before finding an exit.

Originally posted by anton74

P.S. Don't even think of using lead from batteries unless you have a death wish.

LOL!!!
I did think about this at one point, then I thought about it.
It is doable but not practical at all vs the risk and return.
Nowadays when I have probs finding lead...and I do live in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, I just buy a 40 Lb. bag of generally #8 shot or whatever is cheapest.

reply to post by g146541


I thought about it at one point also, glad I didn't. There are great sources online and they'll deliver it to your door. You can even buy it by the ton if you like.

reply to post by anton74


Off topic response so I will keep it in line by saying a modern weapon is far superior to black powder.
The prob I have with online buying ....well other than a huge paper trail leading to my door anyway, is the shipping fee and hazmat charges.
Years back when looking into buying powder not lead, the shipping and hazmat was double the price of the powder!!
Yep, here in beautiful Kalifornia we have a hazmat charge for everything.
Strike that, I bought some cookies online with no Kali hazmat fee.

These new zinc wheel weights are a real PITA! I try to sort them out,but it is very time consuming. I melt wheelweights into ingots outdoors, since it is very smelly and smoky. If you keep a close eye on the melt,the zinc weights will float to the top and you can skim them off,along with the clips.

As far as making black powder,has anyone done it? I've wanted to try it often,but never have. I know it's harder than just mixing saltpeter,sulfer and charcoal, but I don't know exactly how it's best done. I watched a show on it once,and it was quite interesting. It turned out to be pretty tricky to get the quantity and quality just right,and much of the formulations turned out to be quite weak and useless. Then there's the matter of "corning" it and so on. I'd still like to try it someday,so if anyone has any experience with it,I'd b interested in hearing about it.

reply to post by xxclaro


I use to make it when I was in high school years ago with a ratio of 1/3 charcoal, 1/3 salt peter and 1/3 sulfur. I used it in a homemade cannon that I could shoot 1/2 inch ball bearings a 1/4 mile.

Black Powder Revolvers are noisey smelly dirty and would easily give away your position, that plus the fact once you have fired off your projectiles they have very little ballistic coefficient due to being round and soft lead. Give me a service revolver any day of the week over one of them, hang fires are also an issue and even caps falling off causing non detonation.

To cap it all off reload times are appalling coupled with having to cart around measures of powder and pollanda with you to complete this reload.

4ea Beretta M-9 stainless with Hi Cap mags
or
8ea 1858 Army 44's and extra cylinders and caps and bore cleansers and... and... and... and... keeping your powder dry in those cylinders and... and... and... the list goes on

you do the math....and when it comes down to what is dead and what isnt dead, how sexy is your black powder rifle and how sexy is my stainless mark 7 .308 with a 3x9 and 4 168gr boat tails all ready to rock and roll

you do the math, ponder modern innovation of smokeless powder ....were G.I.'s carrying 1858 44's or 1911 45's in WW1?

you do the math
as for price......what is your life worth. $100 for the 3 shot blow apart 9mm? $300 for the black powder? or the stainless Hi Cap Beretta?

you do the math

Originally posted by racer451
4ea Beretta M-9 stainless with Hi Cap mags
or
8ea 1858 Army 44's and extra cylinders and caps and bore cleansers and... and... and... and... keeping your powder dry in those cylinders and... and... and... the list goes on

you do the math....and when it comes down to what is dead and what isnt dead, how sexy is your black powder rifle and how sexy is my stainless mark 7 .308 with a 3x9 and 4 168gr boat tails all ready to rock and roll

you do the math, ponder modern innovation of smokeless powder ....were G.I.'s carrying 1858 44's or 1911 45's in WW1?

you do the math
as for price......what is your life worth. $100 for the 3 shot blow apart 9mm? $300 for the black powder? or the stainless Hi Cap Beretta?

you do the math

edit on 13-12-2012 by racer451 because: (no reason given)

Using your logic, wouldn't you be better off getting an H&K Mark 23 and a .338 Lapua? After all, what is your life worth?

The point of this thread is not about preparing for combat, it is about looking into an alternative to weapons that may be to exspensive to own or simply out of the question(legal reasons). The OP started this thread because he/she did do the math.

There are a number of substitute propellants for muzzle loaders available including "smokeless powder." There is a good bit of information available at www.chuckhawks.com...

Modern cartridges are great until you run out of brass and primers. I had a Thompson Center 54 caliber that I could shoot 3 inch groupings at 100 yards using Pyrodex. A 400 gr. bullet has a lot of stopping power!

Originally posted by anton74



Using your logic, wouldn't you be better off getting an H&K Mark 23 and a .338 Lapua? After all, what is your life worth?

The point of this thread is not about preparing for combat, it is about looking into an alternative to weapons that may be to exspensive to own or simply out of the question(legal reasons). The OP started this thread because he/she did do the math.

Lets see now.....yes I can read and use critical thinking to determine that the OP:
posted in Survival Forum
used a cost per piece as reference
used Civil War and a back drop to combat
use of bullet molds VS. US military shoots 7.62 nato 168gr boat tails a known national championship record holder distance round......ie: they are an abundance.
doing the math 5 shots x 8 black powder pistols vs. 4 Beretta 9mm loaded with 19 round mags and as many extra mags as you want to carry = very superior fire power

Finally I have no sarcasm in my post...only god given common sense as a use to reasonably reply to pure fantasy in a real world situation

Originally posted by racer451
Finally I have no sarcasm in my post...only god given common sense as a use to reasonably reply to pure fantasy in a real world situation

I think you and others have taken "Self Defense" to mean everyday carry, while I may be wrong, but I think the OP was thinking more along the lines of long term survival and self defense after TEOTWAWKI or at least in an event where ammo runs low/out.

The math turns out different if after a couple years you have 4 Beretta 9mm with no ammo.

This site has interesting info on black powder. Knowledge doesn't weigh anything and it doesn't take up any room in a BOB and you never know when it may come in handy.

reply to post by daskakik


well hells bells
lets get the absent T OP to post his intentions or we can just comment on the original Post.....
ETA: Harvesting Potassium Nitrate and Sulfur in the wild? Hummmmm! good luck with that,,,or barter?
It has been made a point over and over that (what is always eluded to is a SHTF situation) there is and will be plenty of ammo just waiting to be snatched up..this is why these arguments are over and over again and with the same outcome
He posted his mind and I posted mine....OUT!!

Originally posted by racer451
reply to post by daskakik

 

well hells bells
lets get the absent T OP to post his intentions or we can just comment on the original Post.....

Why? His original intentions aren't going to change your mind. The OP is vague so maybe he was just looking for a general discussion.

Harvesting Potassium Nitrate and Sulfur in the wild? Hummmmm! good luck with that,,,or barter?

Easier to harvest Potassium Nitrate then to try and trade for something that others may be running out of as well.

It has been made a point over and over that (what is always eluded to is a SHTF situation) there is and will be plenty of ammo just waiting to be snatched up..this is why these arguments are over and over again and with the same outcome

And after it is all snatched up and shot...