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Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial`

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posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 01:03 AM
reply to post by Mr Tranny

Socialism always sneaks in under the guise of Democracy through the educational elites.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 01:27 AM
i think we need to have a better definition of capitalism
cause corporate socialism is not capitalism, even though
they use capitalism when trying to destroy or take over a country,
they don't allow the people themselves to benefit from it.
in this way, they spread negativity about the function of capitalism they are actively engaged in, which is then used against every day people who just want to be able to have their little businesses and stuff and stay out of the affairs of other countries.

it isn't capitalism that's going around the world wreaking havoc, it's social corporatists who use capitalism to destroy their opposition and competition. so i think we need to redefine the word capitalism as having at least two forms, one being toxic and the other being individuals and families just working for the present and the future.

these are totally different things.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 01:33 AM
here's a bit of something that'll knock your socks off. it's called
wallstreet and the bolshevik revolution

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 01:49 AM
reply to post by ANOK

wait just a minute.
i ask simple questions and you refer me to Oppenheimer ??

in one breath it speaks of the Middle Ages and a "virile affirmation of the individual, and which succeeded in creating a society through the free federation of men, of villages and of towns."

and then in the next sentence, it talks of these same cities/towns being virtually independent ?? that sounds like a load of rubbish to me.

either they were independent or they weren't.
there is no middle-road, not even in the Middle Ages

i could go on about that link but it doesn't belong in this thread ... suffice it to say ... dude, that didn't answer either of the questions i asked and neither did you.

although, it does remind me of something Einstein said ... if you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 02:50 AM

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
That's worked out really well for China hasn't it?
As theory I agree, it sounds great, it just never works out that way.
Regarding Mandela is he a communist?
Does the ANC act more communist/socialist or capitalist?
Those who live there can answer this question for all of us.

Lets go through the list…

Draconian gun control.

Some of the worst crime levels to be found.

Defending yourself is a “crime against the state”
If you kill someone that is trying to rob, beat, or rape you, then you are arrested for murder.

A 35-year-old home owner was arrested for attempted murder in Fordsburg, Johannesburg, on Tuesday, Gauteng police said.
Warrant Officer Xoli Mbele said the resident was arrested at 10am after he shot a 30-year-old man inside his house who had attacked him with a steel pipe.

They constantly talk about nationalizing this and that….

And this one is just too much…
The mine massacre puts nationalization of the mines back on the agenda…. WHAT? So the state controlled police massacre a boat load of people, and that means that the state needs to take the mine over to prevent it from happening again…… OK!!!!!!! That is like saying a fox killed a hen, so we need to turn over management of the hen house to the foxes…..

Just do the math man, just do the math. If it doesn’t add up, then here is some clues.

Like countless South Africans, Andre Vandenberg has lost multiple relatives to violence in the so-called “Rainbow Nation.” In separate incidents, according to Vandenberg, a motorcycle exporter and former military man who now lives in the United States, two of his female cousins were brutally and repeatedly raped in front of their husbands. One of the women was pregnant with the couple’s first child. All five victims were murdered. After sodomizing and killing the husbands, in both cases, the ruthless attackers raped Vandenberg’s cousins again.

Enduring the horror for hours, one of the women was eventually shot. The other had a tire filled with gasoline put around her neck and set ablaze — the agonizing punishment known as “necklacing,” which was once commonly meted out to black opponents of the predominantly black African National Congress (ANC) now ruling South Africa in an unholy alliance with the South African Communist Party (SACP) and an umbrella group for labor unions. Nelson Mandela’s wife, Winnie, was known for publicly supporting the barbaric act. Nobody was ever arrested in connection with those two farm attacks.

Sounds like they are cleaning out the “undesirables” like they did in the Great Russian Revolution.

I think that answers most of the questions…..

Nelson's wife and most likely him are evidently just your average blood thirsty power hungry maniacs.
Who would of guessed?
edit on 9-12-2012 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:24 AM

Originally posted by domasio
I don't see why people have such hatred for communism. In it's essence, it's probably one of the best ideologies that there is.

You shouldn't bemoan the ideology, only the people that hijack it and take advantage to become a dictator in an ideology that is not supposed to have one leader.

Posted Via ATS Mobile:

Good point except people are too blind or too stupid to see that. Which works for the people who like to hijack ideologies. they just keep hijacking them and people are too stupid to figure out that it is not the ideology it is the people who are using it for their personal gain.

People lack objectivity they just want to be able to label something bad so they can jump up and down like apes about it.

This goes for anything not just communism.. capitalism comes to mind.. there is much hate for that too
edit on 9-12-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:31 AM
reply to post by Mr Tranny

so, maybe a little history recollection is needed here ?
The technical term for those liberals is "useful idiot," but even I must concede that their intervention was actually quite intelligent, back in the 1950s, when this all started. In those days, good men were weak, and their apartheid adversaries invincible on all but one score: propaganda. The war of perceptions thus became the most critical of all battlefields, with the African National Congress constantly seeking to exaggerate apartheid's evils while portraying itself as "good" in a way that was universally appealing.
- snip -
South Africa's "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" - ostensibly set up to cleanse that nation's psyche of its tortured past - is finding that the Marxist revolution fought there between 1948 and 1994 witnessed a departure from the normal rules of war by both the communist African National Congress and the Christian, pro-West NP government.
- snip -
The misdeeds of the Soviet-sponsored ANC have been well chronicled. It operated under and parallel to the South African Communist Party, established in the early 1920s as the first Communist Party outside the Soviet Union.
- snip -
The same Mandela who told the Black youth of South Africa to "burn down" their schools has produced a lawless, unemployable generation.
- snip -
Detainees recounted in the report that they were tortured for disagreeing with Marxist orthodoxy, refusing to carry out bombings of civilians, being accused of spying, questioning ANC policy, or trying to leave the organization altogether. Even the late Joe Slovo, a Lithuanian-born KGB colonel and the main leader of the South African Communist Party through the 1980s and early 1990s, said before his death that "it is possible that people died" in the re-education camps.

and ppl wonder why i lump all the isms together ... it's because they're equally BAD.

anyone with a serious interest should read over the material linked as it goes into much more depth than this thread will. whether Mandela himself was a communist or not is really irrelevant because he cooperated with, encouraged, adopted and implemented their beliefs and practices (SACP) to the detriment of countless ppl along the way.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:42 AM
reply to post by votan

do share, since you seem to think everyone is too blind and dumb to see the benefits of communism, perhaps you can answer a few questions ?

if it's something anyone can do, what's stopping you ?
why is it always presented as an all or nothing option ?

either you agree or we torture you until you do or you die ... what is THAT about ?

no leader is needed/required, right ?
then please ... demonstrate for the world and perhaps many will join you.
cause i do know this current system sucks the life out of everything with which it interacts.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:47 AM
reply to post by antonia

Hey Antonia.It may seem silly,or an over-simplistic view on the matter-but if you lived in SA,you would realise just how much influence this man still has,how much his opinion Matters to the black population of my country.He's an extremely intelligent man,and very articulate and charismatic.He may not be long for this world,but he had many years during and after his presidency to take a firm and immovable stance agains this form of genocide occuring in my country-because its not a blitzkrieg-style genocide where massive numbers of farmers were eradicated countrywide over the space of 2/3 days,and he barely even had time to grasp what was happening before it was over.Its a slow,insidious genocide,with YEARS to change the mindset of the perpetrators,by a man most black South Africans revere practically as a god.Make no mistake,Antonia,what im telling you here is a true thing.EVEN NOW,and maybe Especially now,because he's nearing the end of his life-if he had to beseech the black population,and explain how critically important it is to keep the food growers+ providers of the nation alive,if only from a purely economic,self-serving point of view,never mind humanitarian,it would have a vast positive impact.Done years ago,thousands of lives would have been saved.From a purely economic angle,every time i walk into the fresh produce and meat section of my local PnP,and look at the high prices of food,the impact of this man's actions,or rather Lack there-of,is made evident.From an humanitarian point,its still hypocrisy at its worst.All very well to pat kids on the head,and have children's funds and charities,etc..and yet not care whether one day all those charities will be able to feed these kids on,are Monsatan's maize-because everything and anything else will be too expensive,as the bulk of the nation's food has to be imported.He is the only one loved,worshipped and influential enough,to have the ability to have stopped this genocide in its early days already.He has more influence than Mbeki,Zuma and Malema put together.Maybe less kids would have needed charity to survive-if he took a firm stance against the murder of their parents' employers.And with this,i dont even just mean the farmers.During robberies,home invasions,hi-jackings etc-if the victims are white,they are routinely murdered,as opposed to black/colored victims-more employers gone-more kids with an unemployed parent.He could have made a vast difference if he focused on this crisis-he chose not to-and we are quite literally paying for it,every time we buy basic food supplies.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:49 AM

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
So what if he was (Communist)?

Communist regimes killed between 85 million to 100 million people in the 20th century, all in the name of protecting the people.

Mass killings under Communist regimes

By way of comparison, the Nazis exterminated perhaps 17 million.

List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll

edit on 9-12-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:09 AM
he may have well been a communist since he and other black africans experienced first hand what democracy and "free" elections have done to his people on their own friggin land for pete's sake.

he was probably pushed to that ideology because he wasn't allowed to be part of democracy.

it's amazing how white europeans can smell gold well into the future.

it just happens to be the biggest gold producing region in the history of the world.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:07 AM
Those who have a downer on Communism, I usually find, are the same people who couldn't really tell you a thing about it. Often it is the same as religion in that they believe because there parents believed and they haven't really given the subject any serious consideration or subjected it to close scrutiny. With Communism these people feel that Communism = bad simply because they was brought up to believe so, they also tend to follow the old saying "My country right or wrong". They have never looked at the evils that their own country has inflicted on the world or bothered to count the amount of people that have died in the name of "Democracy".
To me I couldn't give a fig who is or isn't a memeber of the communist party or socialist party they are just simply alternative Ideologies. But to the people (usually Americans, despite their mcarthy era history)) that are really hung up on the evils of communism after all of these years of hate in the name of "Democracy" (or the illusion of it) I say grow up, learn your history and maybe then we can discuss the wholoe matter seriously without demonising any political ideology or starting flame wars. The cold war has gone, we was all lied to, no political ideology is perfect and none can be a threat to the other unless the people want it be that way.
If Mandella was a memebr od the Communist party then to me that shows that he has at least considered alternative political answers to his countries problems and not been seduced by any one line of thought. I wish more politicians would consider alternatives, the world might be a better place.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:13 AM
Back to jail with him.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:15 AM
reply to post by avriel

You should read the Black Book of Communism

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:20 AM
reply to post by 11235813213455

Is it much different to "In the Name of Democracy"? Both sides have dont good and bad things no side is perfect. However it is not the political ideologies that are flawed so much as the people that implement them. Much the same as religion really.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:41 AM
So was just about every person, black and white, fighting for freedom in South Africa.

What does it matter? Many involved in the civil rights movement in America were communists too.

shame on him for denying it in the first place

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:42 AM

Originally posted by 11235813213455
reply to post by avriel

You should read the Black Book of Communism

Why? The book doesn't have any examples of communism in it

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
All the ass covering the media did for him, and how they promoted him, knowing what they was saying was pure propagandistic bull crap.

The communist media ready to serve for the furthering of the cause, to get one of their own into a position of power to affect the change THEY want.

Communist media? Where is this communist media, exactly? Seriously, I'd love to know as I'm genuinely sick of reading the ostensibly right-wing, free market-worshipping capitalist press that I read in Britain on a daily basis.

Maybe the Morning Star has a larger readership and spread of influence than I thought.

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
reply to post by Hellhound604

And there was a dang good reason for that death penalty too.
And there still should be a death penalty for it.

I would expect someone with the name tranny to be more sensitive to the needless persecution of his fellow man.

Neither democracy or socialism is inherently evil....however if those at the top are greedy then any form of government will end up taking advantage of the people it should be serving.
edit on 12/9/2012 by intelligenthoodlum33 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:48 AM

Originally posted by votan

People lack objectivity they just want to be able to label something bad so they can jump up and down like apes about it.

And in the same breathe talk about freedom. I find it very ironic some people here call Mendela bloodthirsty and then go on to advocate killing anyone who is a communist. How can you decry people who murdered in the name of communism when you seem so ready to kill in the name of your own ideology? You are no better.

It's not ideology that kills, it's immoral people as witnessed by this thread.
edit on 9-12-2012 by antonia because: added a thought

edit on 9-12-2012 by antonia because: I should go back to bed

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