Kill All the Gays Bill - or - Allow Banks to become more Powerful and dictate Policy

Got this in the mail today from Change.org and I'm sick of all of this crap.

The speaker of the Ugandan parliament has promised she will pass the so-called "Kill the Gays" bill in the next two weeks -- she called it a "Christmas gift" for the Ugandan people. The bill would legalize the death penalty for LGBT people and people with HIV or AIDS.

Uganda experts say that one way to stop this bill is to get pressure from banks that have significant resources invested in the country, such as Citibank and Barclays.

Citibank and Barclays together have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in Uganda and wield significant influence in the country, just as banking lobbyists wield influence with Congress in the US. Citibank and Barclays speaking out against the "Kill the Gays" bill might be the best -- and only -- chance to stop it.

Collin Burton is a Citibank customer who is also gay. Collin started a petition on Change.org asking Citibank and Barclays to speak out against the "Kill the Gays" bill.

Here we have two issues people are strongly against. Killing gays and letting the bankers pull the strings to become more powerful.

I don't think killing all the gays in Uganda is the way to go to solve the problem BUT if the Uganda government or the people vote to make this bill Law then it's their choice and they should be allowed to have the right to make that choice.

For reflection, this is the type of government Uganda has:

Uganda is a presidential republic, in which the President of Uganda is both head of state and head of government; there is a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government. Legislative power is vested in both the government and the National Assembly. The system is based on a democratic parliamentary system with universal suffrage for all citizens over 18 of years age. In a measure ostensibly designed to reduce sectarian violence, political parties were restricted in their activities from 1986. In the non-party "Movement" system instituted by the current president Yoweri Museveni, political parties continued to exist but could not campaign in elections or field candidates directly (although electoral candidates could belong to political parties). A constitutional referendum cancelled this 19-year ban on multi-party politics in July 2005.

en.wikipedia.org...

But this guy is doing wrong also. He is calling on the banks and their money and influence to manipulate the system and force an agenda. Don't we already see enough of that in this world? Aren't the bankers already big enough and powerful enough and have caused enough damage through greed and corruption?

Now, I don't know the in's and outs of this whole issue. It has been said Uganda has been manipulated into this by Christians from the US against gays ( we had threads on this back from 2010) I don't know how poor Uganda is or why someone thinks it's a good idea to kill the gays to solve the problem. Perhaps they have no medicine for Aides patients, or no sex education, perhaps gays ( or anyone else) spreading Aides is out of control in Uganda more than anywhere else and they are panicking. I think we need much more information to fully understand these mind sets. I do think giving this power to the banks is The Worst thing you can do and this gay issue needs another solution instead of this proposed bill. There has to be a better way to fix this.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

It has been said Uganda has been manipulated into this by Christians from the US against gays.

Really? Christian Americans inspired them to kill gays?

I don't know how poor Uganda is or why someone thinks it's a good idea to kill the gays to solve the problem. Perhaps they have no medicine for Aides patients, or no sex education, perhaps gays ( or anyone else) spreading Aides is out of control in Uganda more than anywhere else and they are panicking.

Or perhaps it is a third world country full of morons? Killing gays (or anyone else you disagree with) is certainly not a practice of 1st world countries. It's obvious why Uganda remains a third world country....they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Just a little fact info for you.... HIV/AIDS is spreading FASTER through the Heterosexual communities in every country than in the gay communities. This is due to humanities lack of research of the subject. Third world countries rely on rumors and "old wive's tales" in how to deal with the disease. Take Africa as a whole for example. Their is a belief that if you RAPE a newborn child, you will "get rid of" the AIDS virus once inflicted. Africa is the country with the highest number of cases of infection every year.

As far as my thoughts on the "Bills" being proposed, other countries cultures are not for us to determine how they govern their people. No matter how much they infuriate me with their ignorant ways.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

It has been said Uganda has been manipulated into this by Christians from the US against gays.

Really? Christian Americans inspired them to kill gays?

No, I'm not saying that at all. We have threads with info saying it was the Christians ( evangelical fundamental extremists ) who put the Uganda people and government up to having a strong anti gay stance but I doubt they endorsed any killing. I think if it is true the Christians started this mess, they are now surprised it's coming back to bite them in the arse by such a bill. Perhaps the Christians will think twice next time before meddling in the affairs of other countries.

Here is an example thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com... Christians want to Kill Gays in Uganda

You know, I see all this hype about the Uganda anti-gay legislation and there are also people that justify attacking Iran because they hang gays but nobody really says anything thing about our good ole, tight ally Saudi Arabia, who has the same laws.
I guess, since they are strategically important to the US and Europe, they get a free pass?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


According to the link you provided, this is what was said:

Blogger Waymon Hudson noted that in May of this year, Rev. Lou Engle traveled to Uganda and spoke at a rally where calls for violence toward the LGBT community were fast and furious. Rev. Engle got on stage at this rally, and according to one witness, told 1,300 demonstrators that homosexuality was an evil that deserved to be criminalized.

“[Engle] called upon the government of Uganda to be firm and hold on its righteous stand against the evil. He mentioned that homosexuals have penetrated the educational system and Ugandans must be aware of the evil,” the eyewitness said in Hudson’s report.

Calling something “evil” and suggesting homosexuality should be “criminalized” isn’t the same as advocating for murder. DWI is a crime in most states and no one advocates for the death penalty for drunk drivers.

I just think we should place blame in the right direction….at the actual people advocating for the murder of others based on their sexuality. That certainly isn’t what Rev Engle or any other Christians advocated.

Originally posted by seabag
Or perhaps it is a third world country full of morons?

Morons perhaps but highly educated morons. The current speaker of the Parliament is Rebecca Alitwala Kadaga

Rebecca Kadaga attended Namasagali College for her high school education. She graduated with a law degree (LLB) from Makerere University in 1978. She went on to obtain the Diploma in Legal Practice from the Law Development Center in Kampala in 1979. In 2000, she obtained the Diploma in Women's Law from the University of Zimbabwe. In 2003, she obtained the degree of Master of Arts (MA), specializing in Women's Law, also from the University of Zimbabwe ...

Between 1984 and 1988, she was in private law practice. From 1989 until 1996, she served as the member of parliament for Kamuli District in the District Woman's Constituency. She served as the Chairperson of the University Council for Mbarara University, between 1993 and 1996. During 1996, she served as Secretary General of the East African Women Parliamentarians Association.

From 1996 until 1998, Rebecca Kadaga was the Ugandan Minister of State for Regional Cooperation (Africa and the Middle East). She then served as Minister of State for Communication and Aviation, from 1998 until 1999. Between 1999 and 2000 she was the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs. She was elected Deputy Speaker of Parliament in 2001,[5] a post she has held until Thursday 19 May 2011, when she was elected Speaker of Parliament.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Morons perhaps but highly educated morons. The current speaker of the Parliament is Rebecca Alitwala Kadaga

Maybe so!

Serial killer Ted Bundy was a lawyer and Dr Jack Kevorkian was an educated moron as well. It happens!

Well that certainly is a moral dilemma, and as much as I'd normally agree with your utilitarian stance on "if the masses voted, let them have it," in this case we're talking about killing off people because of sexual orientation and HIV. I could understand responding to HIV by castrating those with it so as to prevent it from spreading sexually, but killing them is uncalled for.

I'm not even going to comment on killing people based on sexual orientation.

Now, as for the banks, I have no problem with them demonstrating their influence provided that they are taking a moral and ethical stance in doing so. Regardless, you need not fret because the banks will not threaten to pull money from Uganda.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


No they dont deserve that right.

I will not allow it. I'll protect them just like i'd protect you, If i could.

It is against Christian doctrine and traditions to kill or hate.It is traditional in Sharia law to hate and kill them and anyone else they see as not conforming to doctrine or customs.
Uganda,home of Idi Amin,why should this raise any eye brows?
You want another war to fix it? Are you gonna write letters to make them feel bad through the UN?
I read that post about the Congo's war,same as it ever was in African undeveloped nations. Sure we can go in there kill thousands and shake them up but we won't.
Perhaps an effective strategy should be proposed,while they are vaccinated to death.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy

Now, as for the banks, I have no problem with them demonstrating their influence provided that they are taking a moral and ethical stance in doing so. Regardless, you need not fret because the banks will not threaten to pull money from Uganda.

And that's exactly how the banking lobbyist gain more power to influence and corrupt - by championing a cause most people can get behind then use that power and influence to do more harm to the people and economies. It matters not that they won't threaten to pull the money out of the country, that's not needed to cause the harm.

Lets say 20 years down the line if this bill passes, you will have no gays or spread of disease from Aides in Uganda but you have a healthy ( Christian style other than the killing) moralistic way of life and a thriving economy that works well for the good of the people.

Or

Lets say the banks win here and you have lots of gays and aides and spread of disease in Uganda but the banks have taken over and manipulate the government like the worst Illuminati you could imagine and all the people suffer.

I realize both are extremes but both are possible futures depending on what happens in the next two weeks. What I'm getting at is it's possible for both routes to be equally damaging in it's own way. There is no good way to choose on this, Uganda needs more options. I am really surprised the Ugandans can't see that with all that education floating around.

reply to post by seabag


Actually Seabag, Christian missionaries from organizations like C Street were very influencial in drumming up hatred for homosexuals in Uganda.

There is a plethora of evidence supporting this. Even right now, google comments by Christian leaders in the states, they are supporting this bill hand over fist.

2009 Article

Christian leaders supporting bill

Expose on C Street & Ugandan Ties

So you see, if you'd like to state that Christian Fundementalists had no part in this atrocity, you might want to make sure that's the case. Clearly it's not.

~Tenth

Now :another example of the character of crazy:www.dailymail.co.uk...

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Well that certainly is a moral dilemma, and as much as I'd normally agree with your utilitarian stance on "if the masses voted, let them have it," in this case we're talking about killing off people because of sexual orientation and HIV. I could understand responding to HIV by castrating those with it so as to prevent it from spreading sexually, but killing them is uncalled for.

I'm not even going to comment on killing people based on sexual orientation.

Now, as for the banks, I have no problem with them demonstrating their influence provided that they are taking a moral and ethical stance in doing so. Regardless, you need not fret because the banks will not threaten to pull money from Uganda.

You scare the hell out of me. You could understand castrating people with the mythical aids™, and see no problem with the banks so long as they're ethical....aren't you just the perfect little LGBT sex trooper? With persons such as yourself, the machine doesn't need ad rollouts. Enjoy your cage, and remember, you can only catch everything except aids™ from mosquitos....

screenshot worthy.

Basic human rights should not be up to a vote.

I don't think killing all the gays in Uganda is the way to go to solve the problem BUT if the Uganda government or the people vote to make this bill Law then it's their choice and they should be allowed to have the right to make that choice.

And if they decide to have a civil war or attack one of their neighbours, then we should also turn a blind eye because its not on my doorstep.

/end sarcasm.

No offence but the Ugandan people, imo, have been brainwashed by religious fundamentals. So, in essence, you could argue they are passing law's without knowing the actual truth. This ignorance will indeffinately lead to the death of thousands of people who are homosexual and hundreds more who get accused of being homosexual. If we have any humanity within us at all, we should do our best to interfere and educate them on homosexuality.

For reflection, this is the type of government Uganda has:

But this guy is doing wrong also. He is calling on the banks and their money and influence to manipulate the system and force an agenda. Don't we already see enough of that in this world? Aren't the bankers already big enough and powerful enough and have caused enough damage through greed and corruption?

I actually agree with what this man is doing. I dont agree with the banks having all that power but if you want to win you have to know how to work the system.

Now, I don't know the in's and outs of this whole issue. It has been said Uganda has been manipulated into this by Christians from the US against gays ( we had threads on this back from 2010) I don't know how poor Uganda is or why someone thinks it's a good idea to kill the gays to solve the problem. Perhaps they have no medicine for Aides patients, or no sex education, perhaps gays ( or anyone else) spreading Aides is out of control in Uganda more than anywhere else and they are panicking. I think we need much more information to fully understand these mind sets. I do think giving this power to the banks is The Worst thing you can do and this gay issue needs another solution instead of this proposed bill. There has to be a better way to fix this.

Only Tolerance will solve this "problem" And yes, christians and islamic's have infected the country with their hateful views. They're still witch burning over there for god's sake, its madness.

If Western banks move out Chinese banks will move in. There really isn't much to be done. If Chase and Barclay's believe there is money to be made there probably is. In short: Uganda is fungible.

Originally posted by Maslo
Basic human rights should not be up to a vote.

THIS. We need world wide high standards of rights for all people and those are not up for grabs by politicians, nor can be removed by public opinion.

I was very shocked watching the news last week and seeing what was going on in Uganda. For a country that gets millions of pounds in aid from other countries I find their governments ignorance and lack of respect for people's sexuality shocking. Personally I believe there should be International Law put in place stopping this type of behaviour and these rallies that the Ugandan government have been creating. How about an early Christmas present for Uganda? Every country currently supplying aid should discontinue it until the Ugandan government understand gay people deserve the same rights as everyone else.