Man invented dates and time, hence they are meaningless.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


reply to post by OMsk3ptic


I realize that I cannot prove nothing will happen.

But, it stands to reason that we are vastly more informed about the goings on of our solar system and galaxy than the Maya were. If it were anywhere near likely that some predictable event was getting ready to wipe-out or "change" the Earth, science would have us informed about it.

It's illogical to lend credence to an extremely vague threat based on nothing other than an old calender.

reply to post by Mizzijr


YES and who do you celebrate for that little gem? You idiots provided the mapping technique to lock you in circles.

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

reply to post by OMsk3ptic

 

I realize that I cannot prove nothing will happen.

But, it stands to reason that we are vastly more informed about the goings on of our solar system and galaxy than the Maya were. If it were anywhere near likely that some predictable event was getting ready to wipe-out or "change" the Earth, science would have us informed about it.

It's illogical to lend credence to an extremely vague threat based on nothing other than an old calender.

The Mayan civilization was in existence for around 2500 years so while we may know a lot more about the workings of our solar system they had more time observing it, their calendar was more accurate that our modern system. We are still being thrown curve balls by our sun, and scientists are continually scratching their heads and having to redo and reinvent algorithms predicting its activity. I wouldn't be so confident in our current appraisal of the situation.

But hey, we don't have to wait too long to find out do we?

reply to post by watchitburn

Gotta play Devil's Advocate here.

First, a quick comment on the title: The sentence, "Man invented dates and time, hence they are meaningless," is epic in the enormous amount of philosophical baggage it contains.

But let's assume what you meant was something like "Man invented dates and time, therefore nice round numbers like 1000, or the end of the Mayan calendar, are only nice and round and interesting because of the standard humans used, and we could have used any other standard, therefore a number being visually appealing does not necessarily imply any special significance, etc." That seems to be the basic idea of the body of your post, anyway.

Here's where I must play Devil's Advocate.

Man exists, and what man does is real. Therefore, numbers like 1000 exist in absolute reality. That number is round in absolute reality: more precisely, it is round in the number system used or at least understood (in the 21st century) all over the planet Earth.

Does it really make any difference, then, whether somebody finds special significance in the stars somewhere, or whether they find it in special artifacts of a human numbering system? If somebody is inclined to read special significance into anything, the stars for instance, then why should a human numbering system be off limits? That system is just as absolute and real as the stars.

It sounds like you are really just arguing against people looking for synchronicity, reading meaning into nature, anything paranormal, etc. But that's a philosophical question, much broader in scope than the 2012 phenomenon. And that question makes or breaks your point about 2012.

These cavemen think the sun still comes up and goes down. They ain't know nothing.

The more light there is the less you can see.

reply to post by watchitburn


This is true. It's a sign of the arrogance of human kind to think of itself as the all important beings on this planet. Everyone thinks they are the sole reason for life.

This is why "God" made them. They cannot be simply advanced animals, the result of evolution on a planet that spews forth life after life most of which fails and subsides.

This is why "Aliens" are visiting the Earth. We're that important that beings from a planet light decades away will come to visit us, not stop to say hello, and if we're lucky, give us the enlightenment to advance and ascend into pure bliss. Love and light, you groovy cats...

This is why "At midnight you'll turn into a pumpkin!". Time is only relevant to the person using it. No one else. Midnight for me, is midday for someone else. Not many scary things happen at midday. But for the arrogant human being sitting under an oak tree in a cemetary on sunday at midnight, it all makes perfect sense that is when the ghosts will come out and eat you.

Humans... We're like meerkats in a cosmic plane... we're many of the same thing, but we all act and exist as if we're the only thing important. People may say they consider their loved ones first and foremost and would die for them.... but in that death, their last thoughts will not be of anyone but them self.

But I guess without this arrogance, we'd have been one of the forms of life the Earth spat out and then reclaimed as a failure... so in that, we need the stupid 2012 things to guide us... It's a dark watery path, life, and if we're not careful of the banks on either side, we'll ground ourselves short of where we need to go.

Nothing will happen on 2012. We're not that important. We're not that clever (even mystical magic mayans) and when we die, it will all seem as meaningless as it really is.

fin.

reply to post by watchitburn


Dates times, and measurements, weights etc etc are not meaningless. They are used for a purpose to have our earthly society function the way it does. If you took away dates, and time, and everything else I think everyone would have to resort to living out in the middle of nowhere with no money, no rules and no guidelines to do anything.

The Mayan calendar is just a set of days that they made. Thats all. Theres no endtime date prophecy of the end of the world by the Mayans, and the only reason people talk about it cause its so close. And plus the dates that we today think is dec 21st 2012 is most likely wrong. People think they know whats going on, but we really don't.

Just carry on your business as usual. The world will end sometime thats all I can say, it cant go on forever the way its going.

Time exists as a concept, but it is not meaningless.

Humans define time it by gauging the movement of the earth around the sun, incorporating the
rotation of the earth.

The year, month, and week represent the movement around the sun. The day, hour, and second
represent the earth's rotation.

But time is just a concept predicated on motion--If all motion ceases, time (for us) ceases.

That being said, I think the Mayan calender simply took their perception of time (one) level further
out into the universe. I think their calender also represents the movement of our solar system
thru the Milky way.

I think the ending of the Mayan calender simply denotes the ending of the Age of Pisces and the
beginning of the Age of Aquarius. No doom and gloom, no Armageddon, no returning saviors or
killer companion stars...just business as usual in the Milky Way.

So IMO it appears we have 26 shopping days left to the dawning of the Age of Aquarius....
please RSVP if you plan to attend...BYOB

Originally posted by watchitburn
\Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

Or just some stuff written by people?

You do realise that the calendars are based off objects in space, don't you? It doesn't matter whether man made dates and calendars, man didn't make the solar system and the motions of the solar system.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
reply to post by watchitburn

 

First, a quick comment on the title: The sentence, "Man invented dates and time, hence they are meaningless," is epic in the enormous amount of philosophical baggage it contains.

edit on 25-11-2012 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)

Thank you for noticing.

Everything I do tends to be epic.
Epic successes, epic failures, I just made an epic pot of coffee too.

Thanks everyone for participating. This thread has been interesting.

I have noticed arguing the 2012 topic with some people is very similar to arguing about religion. I find this disturbing.

Some people are just arguing semantics based on my choice of words.
Some argue that the Maya knew something we don't. This just does not hold water in my opinion. We have mapped the trajectories of meteors that are only about 10 feet across. It is just unfathomable that the Maya had access to data that we do not.

EVER HAD A BIRTHDAY?

Originally posted by pacifier2012
EVER HAD A BIRTHDAY?

Don't hurt yourself trying to contribute.

Wouldn't want you to get a headache.

I believe it's rather simple.

Man invented the calendar. The calendar is useful to man. The calendar is a tool. The calendar has meaning in the form of usefulness to mankind.

Superstition is illogical. Pondering superstition is a waste of time. Superstition arises from unique circumstances and illogical/false beliefs. Superstition is mostly good for occupying one's time and confusing oneself.

Case in point. Ladders are good for climbing ontop of roofs. Walking under a ladder and believing it will bring you bad luck is a good way to have a mental fantasy and play pretend that luck is some metaphysical entity which effects the outcome of events in your life.

So you decide: Would you rather use the tool like normal people, or play pretend like the bat#s?

Originally posted by watchitburn

It is just unfathomable that the Maya had access to data that we do not.

Just for the sake of discussion. I find fault with this premise. Our modern scientific methods are not perfect, and they are a representation of cumulative learning of the past few hundred years, but mostly the last couple hundred. And we certainly do not have all the answers, (especially with regards to solar cycles ie. the sun's periods of quiescence and vigorousness).

I find lacking that people would dismiss the knowledge gathered by a society that endured for over 2000 years, primitive yes, but people with the same intelligence, curiosity and hunger for knowledge that we have today.

As I've stated before, a simple example is that the Maya had a more accurate calendar than the one we use today, and that was only realized by scholars relatively recently, their levels of sophistication in the fields of mathematics and astronomy were very high.

Originally posted by watchitburn
Thanks everyone for participating. This thread has been interesting.

I have noticed arguing the 2012 topic with some people is very similar to arguing about religion. I find this disturbing.

Some people are just arguing semantics based on my choice of words.
Some argue that the Maya knew something we don't. This just does not hold water in my opinion. We have mapped the trajectories of meteors that are only about 10 feet across. It is just unfathomable that the Maya had access to data that we do not.

Unfortunately you've hit the nail on the head. And you won't win this because fanatics will always prevail since normal logical people give up after a while of circular argumentation. The fact that the 2012ers have such ardent convictions just shows that no amount of science, education or even proof won't convince them. They live in this technological world yet they keep arguing that science is wrong and only their spiritual connections inside their heads know the truth.

Reminds me of the Fox news bubble created pre-election and Karl Rove's live meltdown on TV when reality actually registered. I'm assuming for the 2012ers the wake-up will come with hateful replies to threads or even suicides. Oh well, natural selection at work!