Ranchers, farmers brace for 'death tax' impact (Should be titled, The Death of the private farmer)

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Wrabbit,
You and I disagree on a lot but we disagree in a good way. As for the first decade I was extremely apathetic. I had bigger things to worry about wearing combat boots than what the government was doing.

Yes we do, on both points. It's nice to be able to debate and even disagree very strongly...and not get all personal and turn it into a fight. That is where I think the debate here is enjoyable.

I must have missed your mention of serving...I'm sure I did. Having not seen it said before though, I'll leave that lay..figuring you'll expand on it at some point/thread if you choose to. It does help to know for context though. It's impossible sometimes to tell the young members typing opinions and the experienced adults who speak from experience. lol....not to make a bad point there, I'd say it in context to modern teens being that good for giving impressions..at least short term.

I appreciate the reply. Maybe there is hope somewhere for the sides finding good faith compromise. (crosses paws into an uncertain and divided future)

Unless the law is changed the Federal estate tax is set to take another bizarre change in 2013. Generally, taxable estates over $1 million will be subject to estate tax, and the maximum marginal tax rate of 55% will begin at $3 million.

Forbes on Estate Tax Change

Those 40 acres must be worth something like $100,000 each for you to pay any Estate tax of 55%. No estate tax this year. maybe you you can convince the family member to go before the end of the year.

The stock they are talking about in this article is the kind of stock that is traded on wall street. Not the kind that roams around eating grass. This is designed to go after people like Paris Hilton not your average farmer. Because how many family farms are known as wealthy estates?

"The idea behind the estate tax is to prevent the very wealthy among us from accumulating vast fortunes that they can pass along to the next generation," said Patrick Lester, director of Federal Fiscal Policy with the progressive think tank -- OMB Watch. "The poster child for the estate tax is Paris Hilton -- the celebrity and hotel heiress. That's who this is targeted at, not ordinary Americans."

reply to post by TDawgRex


Everyone needs to learn about trusts especially these farmers. The right trusts can avoid all this since the estate is not left to anyone, living trustees just carry on nothing changes hands there is no sale and no taxes etc. This is what the rich do and why their families are still rich and still own the family assets. All their assets are in trusts and their heirs are also trustees etc.

Its highly illegal and you guys are responsible for stopping it. You know phone calls and writing in and visiting their office in large numbers.

House payments/morgage payments and property tax ALL COMES OUT OF AFTER TAX DOLLARS, THAT IS TAKE HOME, NOT GROSS INCOME. Its's all been taxed.

What this tax does is eliminate anyone but the super wealthy from passing their property to their poor children. IF you pass on your 300 000 dollar home to your single mother daughter, she owes suddenly over 150 000 and if she doesn't have it must lose the property, or have a buyer lined up like a vulture waiting for your illness to kill you so she has to sell and can't just live in it.

BUT BUTTOM LINE IS UNLESS SHE IS ALREADY WELL OFF, SHE DOESN'T GET TO LIVE IN HER RIGHTFUL HOME.

DON'T ALLOW IT.

what's ironic to me is that most of these farms will have to be sold and who will buy them? big business farms. will we wake up one morning with four or five companies (ConAgra etc) owning 50-60% of our farms?
the left is shooting itself in the foot.

Originally posted by works4dhs
what's ironic to me is that most of these farms will have to be sold and who will buy them? big business farms. will we wake up one morning with four or five companies (ConAgra etc) owning 50-60% of our farms?
the left is shooting itself in the foot.

Why do you just say things like that, without saying, its ilegal, they cannot do this to people and then WE WILL STOP THEM like any other generation of Amercians and all Canadians would do.

Most farmers are poor in income and rich in land. And that land is their struggling children's inheritance. And its all paid off on after tax dollars. Its THEIRs. No one has the right to steal it from them or force them to sell. That is against your constitution and is illegal. Tell the government they will be thrown in jail and stand up in large numbers.

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by kaylaluv

My in-laws are doing this primarily because this land has been in the family for many generations, so it's more for sentimental reasons than anything. None of the sons wants to work cattle, but they want to keep the land in the family.

As I see it, once they are In-Laws, they are family.

And they sound like honest folk. Do thay want to do something else with the land?

They are my husband's parents. The parents have changed the ownership of the land to my husband and his two brothers (equal portion to each of the 3 brothers). We won't have anything further to do with the land until the parents die or need to be moved to a nursing home (they are 70 yrs old, so we hope they can live on the land at least another 15-20 years). After that, I don't know what the other 2 brothers plan to do, but my husband and I have discussed possibly retiring on our portion of the land - but that is 20 years from now.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Everyone needs to learn about trusts especially these farmers. The right trusts can avoid all this since the estate is not left to anyone, living trustees just carry on nothing changes hands there is no sale and no taxes etc. This is what the rich do and why their families are still rich and still own the family assets. All their assets are in trusts and their heirs are also trustees etc.

I think this is what I am going to do. I own 180 acres of land, three houses and a small (100 active head) dairy business. 40 Acres is in NC and is prime forest I inherited it from my Grandfather - it has no house or even a utilities easement closest blacktop is several miles away.

I own a house in Lillington and another one in Alexandria, VA near the Pentagon. All told the value of the land and houses is about 1 million or so the business and the machines are worth another 500k or so. I own free and clear the 40 acres in NC, the house in Lillington and the 40 acres our house is on in MO. I have 10 years left on the note for the house in VA and while I am not upside down the market is not favorable for a sale ATM I also have a 15 year note on the other 100 acres.

I am able to keep the houses rented easily through the military housing office to Soldiers (Officers can afford them) who are good renters and take care of things. The 100 acres pays for itself basically each year and the water and pasture is prime. I had the land in NC selectively logged about 10 years ago and made enough to pay the taxes on it for like 100 years or so - LoL. They took only walnut and other hardwoods. Made almost 40K. I also take a hunting lease from an Army buddy for 400.00 a year which almost pays the annual taxes by itself.

I might sell the two houses eventually (I keep the one in hopes if my daughter joins the Army as she says she intends and is assigned to FT Bragg she can live there) as they are not on any significant land but intend to keep all the acreage.

I own the rest of the land in Missouri and it is all continuous mostly pasture (40 tillable acres in hay).

Since I only have one child I don't have to worry about dividing the land or the assets.

However, I am torn between actually just selling it to her for a nominal fee in 10-20 years or so ( I am 46) so that she can do as she wishes with it.

She may want to work it as she seems so inclined at this time; however, people all change over time. Who knows she may want to open a restaurant in the city, or a veterinary practice or hell, travel the world in style. After I am dead who really cares what she does with it. I also might have a grandkid (or two maybe) I guess someday who loves the dairy business...if so it'll be there for them.

Then again - I'd like to leave a perpetual legacy. I know that's a little outdated but it’s there in the back of my mind. A trust might make that possible. I don't have a big enough estate for anyone to really "live" off of as a trust baby.

I don't think I ever want to live in town again but who knows how I will feel at 60+, I might change my mind.
I hope I have a while to figure it out. In the meantime I have enough life insurance for my wife and her to be able to pay it all off in cash should they so choose and have plenty left over.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Most farmers are poor in income and rich in land. And that land is their struggling children's inheritance. And its all paid off on after tax dollars. Its THEIRs. No one has the right to steal it from them or force them to sell. That is against your constitution and is illegal. Tell the government they will be thrown in jail and stand up in large numbers.

They just need to do their homework on trusts and put their properties into pure trusts. Then this BS can't touch them.

reply to post by hawkiye


They shouldn't have to. Nor should they have to continue to pay off a perpetual morgage over and over. The government is commiitting fraud and treason against the constitution and must be stopped. People cannot allow the things that are illegal that are done. You aren't equal at the ballot then powerless the rest of the time. The ballot really does little, its the rest of the time that makes a democracy a democracy by people taking action.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by hawkiye

 

They shouldn't have to. Nor should they have to continue to pay off a perpetual morgage over and over. The government is commiitting fraud and treason against the constitution and must be stopped. People cannot allow the things that are illegal that are done. You aren't equal at the ballot then powerless the rest of the time. The ballot really does little, its the rest of the time that makes a democracy a democracy by people taking action.

The problem is the majority are ignorant and have created and supported this type of society. Until we can change that people need to do what they have to to protect their property. A trust is private law for your assets it cuts the government out of it if done properly. They haven't outlawed them and they won't because the elite all use them to protect their assets. It is not much more effort then having a will. Its not that difficult and anyone with property should have them "even" if these BS laws were not passed. It also protects your property from being sued from you too.

People need to study up on them and understand them even Canadians. Don't just trust an attorney on everything. Make sure you understand them so you can pick a competent attorney and keep tabs on what he is doing or better yet do it yourself for the more self reliant...

reply to post by hawkiye


Thank you.

I have a feeling that I have some learnin's in front of me.



seriously though...Thanks.

This makes complete sense, the amount of land a farmer owns could be heavily taxed upon death and therefore have to be sold. This is because farmland really isn't worth that much as a farm, but the taxes look at it as if it would be sold to make subdivisions or something.

In any case, I know one farmer who rakes in more than $1 million in sales a year, but still barely breaks even after buying and fixing equipment and everything.

The estate tax was created to destroy small businesses and family farms - it doesn't touch the bankers or big corporation. People work hard their entire lives to leave their children something - and this isn't hyperbole; my parents told me exactly that before my dad passed 2 months ago and my mother is now slipping away. "We just want to be able to leave a little something for you and your brother" is what my mom said regarding why she didn't want to try an expensive cancer drug.
When your parents would rather die from refusing expensive medicine in order to leave you some money you know they mean it.
The estate tax is nothing but a final indignity to those who have paid over and over through income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes and dozens of others. If they manage to hang on to a little bit to leave their heirs the government wants to take their cut too. What a slap in their faces.

Oh know it's Fox news ... and ... This is right out of "Atlas Shrugged". Since when is the Government in the business of "Making a Profit?"

We say; "Oh know it's Fox News" because they bring the stupid.

Anyone thinking of Atlas Shrugged as more of a children's book for selfish people is -- well, a Fox News fan.

Industrial farmers have gotten lots of tax subsidies, and rich people have gotten a free ride. "Death Tax" is an engineered term for reducing Trust Fund Babies.

Making sure we don't have Billionaires destroying our Democratic system is a LONG WAY from putting all the effort on "smart people." Outsourcing and venture capitalism made sure that Engineers made a lot less money in this country -- taxes didn't do that.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
The estate tax was created to destroy small businesses and family farms - it doesn't touch the bankers or big corporation. ...

Now we are supposed to pretend the Republicans are saving small farmers? Really? You don't think this is yet another tea bag/rupert murdoch tempest in a tea pot to protect THEIR trust funds?

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Thank you.

I have a feeling that I have some learnin's in front of me.

seriously though...Thanks.

Welcome. If anyone wants a PDF on Trusts to get started educating yourself PM me an email address...

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
The estate tax was created to destroy small businesses and family farms - it doesn't touch the bankers or big corporation. ...

Now we are supposed to pretend the Republicans are saving small farmers? Really? You don't think this is yet another tea bag/rupert murdoch tempest in a tea pot to protect THEIR trust funds?

Its not partisan don't be distracted by the fake partisan divide they are both on the same page working together to steal your wealth and property...