Ranchers, farmers brace for 'death tax' impact (Should be titled, The Death of the private farmer)

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posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


The tax increase in happening now, besides the death tax should not even exist.




posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


The tax increase in happening now, besides the death tax should not even exist.



If your rational applies to income tax as well I agree. If not we have a problem.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


I support abolition of all income taxation which means,and includes federal income tax,property taxes, and the death tax.

None should exist.
edit on 17-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
Dad warned me in no uncertain terms, trust no one...not even family. Does he know something I don't?


Just that you need to get any agreement in writing and have it viewed by a lawyer you retain to protect your interest not a shared lawyer who might be only interested in hers.

Is she selling you the acreage (in which case you can do as you please) with the condition that her child gets right of first refusal or is she wanting you to just "live" on the land as a family member and work it without having any lease or ownership rights? Does she want you to “give” the land to her daughter? Even then if it’s in the will your children could contest it since they are your heirs citing that you made the inclusion under duress in a time of need…which would make it languish in court for years.

If it’s the latter she could get a wild hair for almost any reason (a petty fight say) and boot you out at any time with zero recourse. Say she doesn’t pay the taxes for some reason again you are left hanging without a home or any legal recourse.


edit on 17/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Farming is not a cheap no brainer business. Buying equipment and maintaining is outrageously expensive, and then there is the weather factor and the shrinking family as well to run the farm.

When I was 5 years old, the farm was 200+ acres that also had forest on it so it wasn’t all tillable land.

... FOX News..."



Since you have a very Right Wing/Conservative ideology, lemme break this all down in terms you may understand:

1) This sounds like a lot of whining to me! The farm is most likely not going your way as you most likely were TOO LAZY and failed to make reasonable judgments. And that is why everything is not perfectly PEACHY!!

2) Tough luck... as equipment and stuff cost money, if you are NOT WEALTHY enough to afford it all, it is YOUR FAULT for being LAZY in the FIRST PLACE!!

3) You had 200 acres and was reduced to 40??? That would most likely point to HORRIBLE INVESTMENTS and lack of HARD WORK to me, and you just need to take "personal responsibility"

4) We all got it tough, and when the farm goes, dont even THINK about taking any "socialized" safeguards to keep any children from starving, as that is just a bad, bad, bad "liberal lefty" thinking.

5) Your on your OWN, America is a society that says TOUGH LUCK, pull your own self up as we dont wanna help any of our fellow citizens.

Just providing Right wing/Conservative logic to help you understand where you may have gone wrong!! ISNT A CONSERVATIVE AMERICA JUST GREAT when you arent winning in life??!!

OH, AND YEA... FOX NEWS!!!


edit on 17-11-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


I don't have any kids, so I figured that the Niece would get the land in the first place. The land has been in the family for generations. After I die, it is no concern of mine, so why shouldn't she get it?

But my sister does have one surviving family member who is starting to make life difficult for her. I'm thinking that it may be time to put my ol' 37F hat back on and see what's up. I do know my sister in law, she's a nefarious, yet emotional individual, so I also know what buttons to push.

I'm a Baaaad man.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


I support abolition of all income taxation which means,and includes federal income tax,property taxes, and the death tax.

None should exist.
edit on 17-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


Sadly, it will never happen. I am not a lawyer but why can't these farmers incorporate so that the property never changes hand. I guarantee you the rich has a way around it.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Control a country's ability to produce its own food. Control the country.

This is part of the agenda, and all done in the name of fairness.

The young and foolish voters among us are useful idiots.
edit on 17-11-2012 by MsAphrodite because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
Control a country's ability to produce its own food. Control the country.

This is part of the agenda, and all done in the name of fairness.

The young and foolish voters among us are useful idiots.
edit on 17-11-2012 by MsAphrodite because: (no reason given)




No, those who choose to fall for the old divide and conquer tactics are the useful idiots.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by oper8zhin
 


You obviously live in a city and shop for your food. Work for a company? Yep, it's all good. And didn't get the gist of the OP.

Oh..and you're the first FOX basher.


If this story were on MSNBC then would you be good with that?

Why should a family property be taxed again upon death of the owner? He/She had paid taxes their entire life. Just pass on the property and let the heirs take over the taxes. If they can't afford it, then let them sell it.

The government should not force people to sell property upon the death of a loved one.

And no...I don't understand your way of thinking. That my hard work should benifit those who do not work at all, nor have the inclination to do so?

Sounds like you who is doing the whining. Farmers understand hard work and the vagaries of nature. Maybe you don't?
edit on 17-11-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by oper8zhin
 


You obviously live in a city and shop for your food. Work for a company? Yep, it's all good. And didn't get the gist of the OP.

Oh..and you're the first FOX basher.


If this story were on MSNBC then would you be good with that?

Why should a family property be taxed again upon death of the owner? He/She had paid taxes their entire life. Just pass on the property and let the heirs take over the taxes. If they can't afford it, then let them sell it.

The government should not force people to sell property upon the death of a loved one.


For Americans who COMPLAIN that their life is not 100% PEACHY, I will leave you with advice from the Right wing Conservative talking heads:

"Take personal responsibility and stop whining!! If life isnt 100% PEACHY for you it is due ONLY to being LAZY"

Advice that you can take or leave I guess...

Just remember, that If the farm goes, you dont want to become a "socialist" or "communist" by accepting anything like, GOD FORBID, unemployment, or social security, or Medicare, or anything else to help you not have a HELLISH life and prevent you from having starving children!! GOSH NO, you cant take that "liberal handouts" that you paid taxes towards anyways!! You will then be a "TAKER in life" and that means that you are only looking for HANDOUTS!!!! Oh GOSH NO, you DONT want to become a "liberal" or a "lefty" now if all crashes down "due to laziness" and you want to prevent having starving children to deal with.

(Just logic from the Right/Conservative point of view.)
edit on 17-11-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


For a progressive you sure do cling to the bad policies of the past. Those policies were gotten rid of for a reason. The property has already been taxed. This is double taxation.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
Why should a family property be taxed again upon death of the owner? He/She had paid taxes their entire life. Just pass on the property and let the heirs take over the taxes. If they can't afford it, then let them sell it.


I'll just go out and say it because I can't think of a simpler term right now; it's to keep the playing field even.

This isn't meant for that 'poor' family farm you keep bringing up. This is meant for the Hilton's and the Walton's of the world. This is why the tax is progressive. The lower the amount left behind, the lower the percentage.

The property is income just like anything else, transferring it to someone incurs a tax on that person or persons. If I gave you a million dollars there's only a certain amount of that million that the government considers a 'gift', the rest of it is your income. Remember The Shawshank Redemption roofing scene? Just like that. Shouldn't you have life insurance for things like this? You probably should.

If you're running a business and you can't afford to pay for that business...then you're in the wrong business.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Maybe your father is thinking about a truth in life I went through great personal heartache and loss to understand. Dealings in business with family end badly. They almost always end badly and bad in this case is bad for life. After all, the deal may go south but family doesn't go away like a stranger on any other business deal. Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner can have a pretty rank taste for years to come afterward. I can't say of the various things I've tried for helping family I've EVER ended an arrangement on a note where I'd willingly do it again. The last experience was some money loaned with several times longer to repay than agreed (in writing..in advance) and while it got settled? The damage done to relationships is probably permanent. I swear if I can't give something as a gift, never again...never with family or good friends. It just never ever ends like we seem to think it will.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
Sadly, it will never happen. I am not a lawyer but why can't these farmers incorporate so that the property never changes hand. I guarantee you the rich has a way around it.


You can and should form a corporation; however, even so there are many types and a sole proprietorship is basically personal property as far as a will is concerned. To be completely free from the death tax the company would have to have a public offering and most family farms are too small for that. Even then the value of a person’s shares would be “taxed”.

I have incorporated (a partnership with my wife) but own the land (because my house is on it). That way, if my business should fail my personal assets are not attachable and while I might lose the equipment and the cows I won’t lose the land.

I rent the land and the buildings (and some of the equipment) from myself...


edit on 17/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by oper8zhin

"Take personal responsibility and stop whining!! If life isnt 100% PEACHY for you it is due to being LAZY

Advice that you can take or leave I guess...

edit on 17-11-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)


If my complaining about good hard working Americans being robbed by our own Government is considered whining, while others just have their hands out. I will wear that badge with honor.

Lazy has nothing to do with farming...can't you even understand that? Tell a farmer to his face that he is lazy and you may just end up as fertilizer for his next crop. Unless of course, he recieves subsidies then he'll clap ya on the shoulder and say, "Hellz Yea!"

But the government taking away peoples livelyhoods I am totally against.

Why are you against people earning and bequeathing to their heirs?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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So let me get this straight: when Ted Turner, who ownes like more ladn than anyone, dies, it will be taxed at 55%.

Some how, I bet not. The uber-rich always end up getting around these things. It'll just affects people like us. We're set to inherit some land, but now it looks like we'll have to sell it just to pay the taxes.

Pretty soon, private property will cost too much in taxes to own. But I think that's part of the ponit of Agenda 21, right?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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I can't help but observe something in general with the thread.....beyond how peaceful it was for awhile there.

I'd willing to bet that if we somehow could get an honest and 100% true accounting for survey purposes we'd see a startling and clear connection between opinions and life experience. Specifically... How many people have owned Real Estate and serviced the notes of a mortgage? Of those...how many didn't lose that note to foreclosure or distressed selling to avoid one?

Additionally, how many have owned and not simply worked for a business? Any size business. Owning a truck, for instance, is a pretty small and insignificant business but it's still a business with 6 figure cash flows in and out...with 6 figure totals to be crushed by if handled poorly.

Now...If we could see with accuracy, who sits on which side of the above two questions vs. who holds what opinions on a thing like reinstating the Death Tax to levels that literally crush family lines of inheritance....I wonder what the correlation would show? I'll bet a pattern would emerge.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by oper8zhin

"Take personal responsibility and stop whining!! If life isnt 100% PEACHY for you it is due to being LAZY

Advice that you can take or leave I guess...

edit on 17-11-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)


If my complaining about good hard working Americans being robbed by our own Government is considered whining, while others just have their hands out. I will wear that badge with honor.

Lazy has nothing to do with farming...can't you even understand that? Tell a farmer to his face that he is lazy and you may just end up as fertilizer for his next crop. Unless of course, he recieves subsidies then he'll clap ya on the shoulder and say, "Hellz Yea!"

But the government taking away peoples livelyhoods I am totally against.

Why are you against people earning and bequeathing to their heirs?


BUT Right wing/Conservative logic dictates that if you are NOT 100% PEACHY in life, and NOT a BILLIONAIRE, that its because of no other reason besides simple "LAZINESS". When did their logic change?? Its always "LAZINESS" as the SOLE reason that we are all not enjoying perfect BILLIONAIRE lives!!!

All I am trying to do is help you understand it all in terms from the Right/Conservative point of view. I am more of a "slightly-left-of-center-leaning" person so my "liberal" "socialist" "commie" way of help may not be of any use for you, so I am trying to reach you in other logic that you lean towards.

Just trying to help!!
edit on 17-11-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
Sadly, it will never happen. I am not a lawyer but why can't these farmers incorporate so that the property never changes hand. I guarantee you the rich has a way around it.


You can and should form a corporation; however, even so there are much types and a sole proprietorship is basically personal property as far as a will is concerned. To be completely free from the death tax the company would have to have a public offering and most family farms are too small for that. Even then the value of a person’s shares would be “taxed”.

I have incorporated (a partnership with my wife) but own the land (because my house is on it). That way, if my business should fail my personal assets are not attachable and while I might lose the equipment and the cows I won’t lose the land.

I rent the land and the buildings (and some of the equipment) from myself...




My point is to establish the property as a corporation before someone dies. Not all corporations have public stock so it could be a private corporation. In regards to your land smart move.





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