Could China's rise be a threat to the entire planet?

With every article reassuring us of and, indeed, promoting enthusiasm towards China's rapid ascendency, comes a dozen other articles chronicling the clear and present pitfalls of an accelerated economic expansion of such a populous and, in some ways, backward country.

Be it the egregious pollution related offshoots of the 'crash course' industrialisation of the country; the wanton pillaging of the Earth's endangered fauna in the form of shark fins, elephant ivory and the like for consumption or status symbolisation; or the indirect environmental effects of countries digging up their own backyards (and more) in order to cash in on China's insatiable hunger for resources -- it seems that any positive spin that can be placed on the rise of a nation of 1.35 billion humans that need to be fed, housed and want their base human whims pandered to, has fine print that may result in a 'GFC' (Global Future Crisis) that will make the last few years seem utopic. And this isn't even touching on the likes of equipollent India or even Indonesia!

I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that 'the West' took a century or more to industrialise and acquire the First World standard of living it has today - with all its nefarious offshoots, many of which we're still to square with nature - with a 'Chinese model'. The equation just does not seem to work. All I keep arriving at are mass extinctions, resulting in insufficient food supplies and, invariably, mass (/world) wars fought over food and resources (and living space).

Can someone please outline to me just how the planet is meant to sustain a Western style ascent into First World living, incorporating the populations we deal with today and the speed with which this modernisation is taking place? How can a planet with a forecast 9 billion population (2050) reasonably be expect to sustain such 'virus like' dissemination without reaching a critical mass?

Has short-sighted Western greed, through the agency of Asian appetence, dug a grave for this species / planet? Is a 'culling' of our species the only way to ensure our on-going survival? If so, could this mean that war is a necessity of evolution, rather than the humanistic shortcoming we've historically dismissed it as?

reply to post by BeneathBaseStupidity


......of the 1.35 billion China folks....half live in rural communities and half live in cities.

factsanddetails.com...

Some interesting info in the above web page.

...as of 2010, the life expectancy in China was 73.3 years compared to 78.5 in the US, It is anywhere from 38 to 74 in Africa. 68.8 in Russia, 81.4 in France and 80.4 in Britian, 81.7 in Australia and 68.5 in the Philippines....just to show some examples.

So China Folks live a fairly long life by comparison.

China's expansion will be a draw on the worlds resources no doubt. However, to answer your question on a culling or a war....Yes...I believe because of the diversity of China folks economically, I think a Civil War of sorts will help put that population in check at some time.....It is bound to happen. The haves and the have nots always fight it out.

I would be more thoughtful towards the idea of China wanting to expand its borders.

Originally posted by BeneathBaseStupidity
Can someone please outline to me just how the planet is meant to sustain a Western style ascent into First World living, incorporating the populations we deal with today and the speed with which this modernisation is taking place? How can a planet with a forecast 9 billion population (2050) reasonably be expect to sustain such 'virus like' dissemination without reaching a critical mass?

That's easy, those that today enjoy the "First World" living style will move to a "Second" or "Third" world living style, to keep things in balance.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by BeneathBaseStupidity
Can someone please outline to me just how the planet is meant to sustain a Western style ascent into First World living, incorporating the populations we deal with today and the speed with which this modernisation is taking place? How can a planet with a forecast 9 billion population (2050) reasonably be expect to sustain such 'virus like' dissemination without reaching a critical mass?

That's easy, those that today enjoy the "First World" living style will move to a "Second" or "Third" world living style, to keep things in balance.

now that's rude
can't you see that this little fact is what the OP is mincing about and trying to avoid acknowledging?

the entire OP looks like it was cribbed from kissingers NSSM200 and applied to china
Henry Kissinger's 1974 Plan for Food Control Genocide: www.schillerinstitute.org...

but that's how it is when you see life as a zero-sum game

China's may be on the rise but the resources that they use still falls short in comparison to the Unites States. I would also say that a Chinese wordly rule would see an end to the constant global conflicts that are occuring under an American/English/European rule. I suppose India might not see it that way but I can only forsee Chinese aggresion against disputed terratories and not the full scale invasion type thing that we seem to have a couple of times every decade under the current group of nations in power.

The other thing with regards to their industry and the use of oil etc.. is that their technology will become more efficient as they grow as a nation, as it will be in their best interests financially to do this in the long term.

Honestly I don't see China as a long term threat. I think that China will fall hard just as the US likely will, even worse possibly. Things are speeding up so fast these days. The US's currently economic model is seriously flawed. So is the China's. The difference is how incredibly fast and loose China has played their expansion. While the US initially was on firmer ground that allowed it to set up a global system that would keep it in power, something China is attempting right now, China has had to play catch up and as a result they cut corners that will come back to bite them in the rear. It's like building a deck out of perfect lumber and then letting it sit around and rot for years (The US) compared to building the deck out of half rotten wood to begin with (China) with sub-par building codes. They may both have big expansive functional decks for awhile, but eventually it will come falling down, and when it does the one built on a rotten base will fall faster and harder. That was a pretty convoluted metaphor but you get the point.

If you think the US is bad at polluting the earth, human rights abuses, etc you must not be paying attention to China (Not "you" you, but the universal "you" if you know what I mean)

Like I said I don't fear China really, I fear that the US will just drop in standard of living drastically for many people, unrelated to China. I think they will both fall fairly close together.

Think about how much the US has damaged this planet to support 300 million people, now triple that for China's population, and then probably double that number AGAIN because of China's lack of environmental concerns. Then increase that number, yet again, because China is using modern ways to do what they are doing. America's industrial revolution caused mayhem with incredibly old school tech that couldn't cause damage on a scale anything compared to some modern stuff.

I would never want to deny anyone else the quality of life I have being in the US, but we are being honest here, we all can NOT have this same standard of living without some free energy device or replicators from star trek. Which means some will be takers and some givers. That's the way the world has always worked. The givers and takers change but the system stays in place.

I can't imagine Japan being terribly happy about a powerful China either.

Originally posted by BeneathBaseStupidity
With every article reassuring us of and, indeed, promoting enthusiasm towards China's rapid ascendency, comes a dozen other articles chronicling the clear and present pitfalls of an accelerated economic expansion of such a populous and, in some ways, backward country.

Be it the egregious pollution related offshoots of the 'crash course' industrialisation of the country; the wanton pillaging of the Earth's endangered fauna in the form of shark fins, elephant ivory and the like for consumption or status symbolisation; or the indirect environmental effects of countries digging up their own backyards (and more) in order to cash in on China's insatiable hunger for resources -- it seems that any positive spin that can be placed on the rise of a nation of 1.35 billion humans that need to be fed, housed and want their base human whims pandered to, has fine print that may result in a 'GFC' (Global Future Crisis) that will make the last few years seem utopic. And this isn't even touching on the likes of equipollent India or even Indonesia!

I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that 'the West' took a century or more to industrialise and acquire the First World standard of living it has today - with all its nefarious offshoots, many of which we're still to square with nature - with a 'Chinese model'. The equation just does not seem to work. All I keep arriving at are mass extinctions, resulting in insufficient food supplies and, invariably, mass (/world) wars fought over food and resources (and living space).

Can someone please outline to me just how the planet is meant to sustain a Western style ascent into First World living, incorporating the populations we deal with today and the speed with which this modernisation is taking place? How can a planet with a forecast 9 billion population (2050) reasonably be expect to sustain such 'virus like' dissemination without reaching a critical mass?

Has short-sighted Western greed, through the agency of Asian appetence, dug a grave for this species / planet? Is a 'culling' of our species the only way to ensure our on-going survival? If so, could this mean that war is a necessity of evolution, rather than the humanistic shortcoming we've historically dismissed it as?

You spelled "ISRAEL" wrong ..

Originally posted by wdkirk
......of the 1.35 billion China folks....half live in rural communities and half live in cities.

More recent (the other day) expert summation is 200 million a are 'rich', 200 million have a Mexican level of prosperity and 900+ million live below the poverty line.

What this points to is civil war. And we all know what such internal malaise can lead to regionally (especially with eternal foes like Japan only a 'shanghai' shot away). This is, in fact, is the new Chinese politburo's most pressing concern. For this quality of life disparity threatens the very legitimacy of the party.

An article that played on television, as I typed this response (literally), stated that the incumbent Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, is worth €250+ million and the outgoing Hu Jintao €1.25 billion! ...And these guys represent those who've become bloated 'legally'. It's like Russia x10!

Originally posted by ArMaP
those that today enjoy the "First World" living style will move to a "Second" or "Third" world living style, to keep things in balance.

That falls under the moniker of 'war'. I mean, if I threatened your way of life, what would you do?

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
the entire OP looks like it was cribbed from kissingers NSSM200 and applied to china

I was not even au fait with this school of thought. My concern has to do with billions of people wanting the same life style as their Caucasian counterparts in the a fraction of the time it took the latter to fashion such an existence and the environmental degradation that will ensue as an offshoot of this esurience.

Originally posted by lewman
China's may be on the rise but the resources that they use still falls short in comparison to the Unites States.

It was said the other day, in an interview with boffins in this field of study, that China are currently building a city the size of Chicago every month and that it has 200 more nuclear reactors in the pipeline for the next few years.

Originally posted by James1982
we all can NOT have this same standard of living without some free energy device or replicators from star trek.

This.

Originally posted by RocksFromSpace
You spelled "ISRAEL" wrong ..

...

(I would not have minced my words nearly much if this were really about the evil Zionists )

China are more of a threat to our many endangered species IMO.
If they had their way they would kill all the rhino's,tigers,bears,seahorses,and many more for their "medicines."

They seem to have zero compassion for animals,which I think is a good indicator of how they would treat humans in other lands,if they ever became the big superpower.

Of course,we hardly need to look at how they treat animals to work out that they have an horrific human rights record already.

I would not like to be under their rule,that's for sure.

The answer?
Stop buying their slave made plastic crap.
It ain't rocket science..

The topic title reminds me of the internal struggles of ancient China. If someone grew too powerful, someone would set the seeds of doubt for treason. but honestly all i care about is who's packing the most nukes. Forget Troop numbers.

Originally posted by BeneathBaseStupidity

Originally posted by ArMaP
those that today enjoy the "First World" living style will move to a "Second" or "Third" world living style, to keep things in balance.

That falls under the moniker of 'war'. I mean, if I threatened your way of life, what would you do?

That's what some people I know think, that the only way is for the US to have some kind of "showdown" with China.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
China are more of a threat to our many endangered species IMO.
If they had their way they would kill all the rhino's,tigers,bears,seahorses,and many more for their "medicines."

They seem to have zero compassion for animals,which I think is a good indicator of how they would treat humans in other lands,if they ever became the big superpower.

Exactly. Both with respect to animals and how they would act as a superpower; much less, if it ever came to actual international conflict.

Just recently I read about a woman's finger being cut of by a street sweeper for littering, a man badly beaten for driving a Japanese car, teachers abusing toddler students, train passengers mauling each other like rabid animals for seat, the destitute caged like vermin... and, of course, the infamous toddler being run over (twice!) in a marketplace and just ignored by passer by as if a piece of trash. Then you have all the mass 'relocations' of citizens to make way for the false economic ghost cities that prop up China's bubble economy.

Just seems like today's Chinese do not care about anything other than the 'now' and the 'me'. It's like half a century of communist indoctrination has reared a wholly self-centred and apathetic people who often demonstrate a distinct lack of civility.

The world needs china. The world can not live without china.

Not really much else to add . Kinda makes the whole debate pointless really.

Lot of what if's in there.

Bit like what if the hoover dam cracked....

China accounts for 80% of carbon emissions increase

LINK

I really hope this doesn't end up one of those 'I told you so' instances...

Not many countries are as willing to kill at the individual level like the US.We are fighting because that is what our soldiers have chosen for their lives.A Chinese soldier is a hostage,he has no choice,command is based on fear and nationality.We are based on individuality and self motivated nationality.We are the cops on earth.For the UN.
China is a very large population,Everything is a cookie cutter experience and they are an extremely patient nation as well.If the Younger people reject God,country and fail to have any sense of being Americans beyond their selves,then yes China can catch up.