Puerto Rico has voted to join the union. It is to be the 51st state after congressional approval, ma

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by jiggerj

 

It really doesn't look like anything has changed, Puerto Rico still doesn't want statehood. From the first listed source:

The two-part referendum first asked voters if they wanted to change Puerto Rico’s 114-year relationship with the United States. A second question gave voters three alternatives IF they wanted a change: become a U.S. state, gain independence, or have a “sovereign free association,” a designation that would give more autonomy for the territory of 4 million people.

With 243 of 1,643 precincts reporting late Tuesday, 75,188 voters, or 53%, said they did not want to continue under the current political status. Forty-seven percent, or 67,304 voters, supported the status quo.

On the second question, 65% favored statehood, followed by 31% for sovereign free association and 4% for independence. (emphasis added)

So, 47% wanted no change, 34.5% wanted statehood, 10.9% wanted free association, 2.1% wanted independence.

So 60% DON'T want statehood. If they're admitted, it will be against the will of the people.

You don't understand the vote, I can understand. The first question was about whether they wanted change or not. A vote for NO change would invalidate question 2.

Even if you voted NO change, you still answered question 2. So 65% of ALL who voted wanted statehood IF their status was to change, not 34.5%. Does that clarify it?

Originally posted by Tardacus

Originally posted by Expat888
idiots.... they should have voted for independence....

Agreed, now they will be stuck helping to pay off the massive debt america has run up over the past 50 years.
Why would they want to take on the obligation to help repay such massive debt which they didn`t benefit from?

Because Puerto Rico has more debt, and 13% unemployment. They are better off with statehood.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Dear Aloysius the Gaul,

Good to see you again. I'm sorry you have to fight your way through my confusion, I have more than ever.

there weer 2 different questions - the 23nd one was more or less "REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU SAID IN THE 1ST QUESTION.....what do yo uthink would be the best arrangement for PR?"

I'm curious about the ballot question, but let's assume that's what it said.

Why even bother to ask the first question? Secondly, if the second question didn't include the option to keep Puerto Rico as it was, which almost a majority wanted, they forced an ugly choice on people. After all 47% just said the best arrangement for PR is to keep it as it is. Why throw that out?

IMO it is entirely possible & reasonable for someone to vote "I want to stay as we are, but IF it did change I would want statehood."

Those people are then saying "Statehood is my second choice, kind of like Mitt Romney was your second choice."

If you can straighten out my confusion, I'll be quite grateful.

With respect,
Charles1952

This is the scenario they wanted to avoid ... say 53% want change, and 47% do not. They did not want the 53% to determine what change, even though the 47% prefer things don't change, they wanted to give them a voice in shaping that change if it would occur.

Let's use numbers. We have 1,000 voters.

Question 1.
530 people say they want change
470 people say they want no change.
The result is that the will of the people is that change is wanted.

Question 2. ALL 1000 vote again, not just the 530.
650 want statehood.

The result is that the majority want change, so the status changes. Of the possible forms of change, statehood was the preferred.

What this means is that although 470 people wanted things to stay the same, many of those 470 said please give us Statehood if we can't keep things the same.

This is the first time ANY vote by PR has reached majority. This is the FIRST time the US will consider the request. No request by a territory to become a State has EVER been denied in the history of the US.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
This is the first time ANY vote by PR has reached majority. This is the FIRST time the US will consider the request. No request by a territory to become a State has EVER been denied in the history of the US.

The Republic of Texas was refused when it first asked in 1837, Franklin also asked and failed to be admitted - at least 7 States did vote for it to be admited.

States that never were.

reply to post by Tardacus

Puerto Rico will gain a MASSIVE influx of Federal Funds once it becomes a State in order to bring it up to standards. Some estimate this amount at between 25 and 50 Billion Dollars.

They will also have to pay Taxes but this amount is not seen as a large amount. Split Infinity

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
This is the first time ANY vote by PR has reached majority. This is the FIRST time the US will consider the request. No request by a territory to become a State has EVER been denied in the history of the US.

The Republic of Texas was refused when it first asked in 1837, Franklin also asked and failed to be admitted - at least 7 States did vote for it to be admited.

States that never were.

Was Texas a US territory in 1837? No, it wasn't. So I repeat, no US TERRITORY has ever been denied.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Tardacus

 

Puerto Rico will gain a MASSIVE influx of Federal Funds once it becomes a State in order to bring it up to standards. Some estimate this amount at between 25 and 50 Billion Dollars.

They will also have to pay Taxes but this amount is not seen as a large amount. Split Infinity

Ding, we have a winner. I don't know the amount, but yes they will get a lot of Federal support.

Hey.

I voted in the referendum.

If you voted Yes in the first question, that's a vote for the status quo, no need to answer the second.
If u voted no, then u pick the option u prefered. (statehood, independence, enhanced ELA)

This vote will be ignored. Congress wants a "super majority", something that says statehood without a doubt.
Two things are needed for statehood: Congress aproval and that "super majority". Both will never happen.

ps: some of you need to do some research or come visit before saying some things about my island.

While it would be very cool to have Puerto Rico as another state, I think there must be an overwhelming portion of the population that supports statehood, as it would be a huge change from where things are right now.

reply to post by Dembow

Dear Dembow,

Thank you a hundred times over! I needed some good news today and I'm delighted to see that I wasn't losing my mind.

I voted in the referendum.

If you voted Yes in the first question, that's a vote for the status quo, no need to answer the second.
If u voted no, then u pick the option u prefered. (statehood, independence, enhanced ELA)

So it WAS less than 40% of the entire population that voted for statehood. Thanks again.

And I'd love to visit your island, I'd even buy you the first couple of rounds, but . . . I just don't seem to have as much travelling money as I used to, and I'd have to go by ship. I've never been groped by the TSA and I don't think I'd take to it very well.

reply to post by charles1952


You are correct.

Both parties will interpret it in their own way. That's why it's useless in my opinion.



I understand, but if you ever come down, I'll show you around.
Rum will be flowing

Puerto Rico as a state?

Sure. They seem to be dealing with all the consequences of being part of the union without any of the benefits. seems fair if thats what they want.

6 more and Obama didn't gaffe in 08, he was a visionary

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Poor Puerto Rico.

Somebody should stop them from making a huge mistake.

Maybe we can trade? They can become a state and my state can be set free?

The Feds will mess them all up next.

I first heard of this several months back when several news agencies were reporting on it. I was wondering how it all would end up. A union state right in the middle of the Caribbean. It gives the United States a lot more influence in that region of the world. A lot more American Navy in the area as well, more so then there is currently which will alarm several nation in that region. The nations of the Caribbean better start meeting and talking about as it might actually get approved by the US Congress.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Why not give them statehood? They are American citizens. I fully support their desire for statehood.

As I understand it, it was always up to them if they wanted it. I can remember seeing people on other forums posting and they are very proud of their territory. Also I used to get salsa stations in Florida and would hear ads and such and then the Puerto Rico chant. All that time people there did not want Statehood for some reason.

Now Barack is Mr Socialiste Presidente and suddenly with another 4 years of him they decide now to have Statehood.

I guess that's not so surprising. El Presidente says come and be a State and we will give you stuff.

I hope I do not offend any Puerto Ricans because I've known some nice people but the trend is to get free stuff from the US govt under Barack.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Puerto Rico as a state?

Sure. They seem to be dealing with all the consequences of being part of the union without any of the benefits. seems fair if thats what they want.

6 more and Obama didn't gaffe in 08, he was a visionary

No, Obama's gaffe was likely the States of Islam.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Tardacus

 

Puerto Rico will gain a MASSIVE influx of Federal Funds once it becomes a State in order to bring it up to standards. Some estimate this amount at between 25 and 50 Billion Dollars.

They will also have to pay Taxes but this amount is not seen as a large amount. Split Infinity

I postsed before I saw yours. Yes, and why now suddenly they make this decision? I'm certain it's at a time when we should be controlling our budget and pulling our forces inward?

OH here's an article, and looking at this I am even wondering if Barack prefers Statehood for them. Check this out

An exodus of residents from the island has culminated in a staggering statistic: Fifty-eight percent of Puerto Ricans live in the mainland United States, McClintock said.

The preference of many voters is to consider a report by the Obama administration that lays out several noncolonial options before choosing an alternative status, said Jorge Benitez, a political scientist at the University of Puerto Rico-Rio Piedras.

Puerto Ricans have full voting rights if they live on the mainland US

The roughly 4 million residents of Puerto Rico are American citizens but can't vote for president. However, the almost 5 million Puerto Ricans living in the 50 U.S. states have full voting rights.

A non-colonial option....what does that mean without Statehood? Does that mean money without strings? Maybe under that condition Statehood makes more sense. Sounds like Barack wants to give away free taxpayer money for votes. Either way, Barack is not interested in doing the right thing for the US.
www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by VaterOrlaag

 

I'm not opposed to them becoming a state. I actually would welcome it....Our flag has had fifty stars on it for two long, it's time to change it's looks.

I'm guessing you'd love to see the Ologo instead of the stars. Or how about the hammer and sickle in honor of obama's master Lenin. Or we could just make it one star and a moon to honor the Muslim Brotherhood and add a hammer and sickle to it for fun all with the Obozologo.

If puerto rico becomes a state before DC does, I am going to be pissed.