Vikings in Paraguay - The Amambay/Guaira Runes and more.

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posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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Well, I’m not sure where to start, it’s a lot of info and probably will need to be selective. The location of archaeological material to be discussed is South America, for that reason the sources are mostly in spanish language, so please be patient if you find some translation errors.

By the late 60s, a geologist of the Ministry of Public Works, Pedro Gonzalez, found in Amambay 157 caves with walls covered with inscriptions.

About 10 years later, in late 70’s a professional team set the Paraguayan government, the army, and the Anthropological Institute of Science of Man of Buenos Aires, Argentina, led by Jacques de Mahieu, conducted archaeological investigation in the area of the Amambay and Guairá hills.



Few years ago, another expedition had been sent by the government to the same area, this one included Spanish scientist too (wonder why they were invited). The carvings were dated 5,000 years old.



Just to have an idea how vast is the area in discussion :



Researchers penetrated the area for 16 days and took a tour of some 2,000 kilometers in eight different hills of the Eastern region, looking stones, coals and watching the "drawings" stone carvings of our ancestors.




What they discovered or rediscovered seems to be an strong evidence that confirms Vikings settled in this region of South America before Columbus. This changes the whole game my friends, it looks like Vikings traveled way further than Canada. One more thing, the area had been declared military area (I think that means you can’t visit it by yourself…lol, like area 51?).







Notice how the symbol matches with that compass ?



A horse ?



Here is a photo that intrigues me somehow, wonder why they used quartz. It’s beautiful…isn’t it?



Certainly all that sounds more credible for me than the idea of advanced civilizations waiting to be discovered by spaniard barbarians in 3 lucky boats, I must say. It's been always a link between distant cultures.

It also could give an explanation for the presence of white people in some ancient pre-columbian cultures, like Tiwanaku and it’s founder Huyustus, just to name one.

The are Spaniard chronicles regarding the search of a “white king” and an ancient path that connects Tiwanaku with this area, the path is called “Ruta del Peabirú”, honestly I didn’t extend my research about that yet, but seems there isn’t too much info about it on the web (doesn't mean it's false).

Anyway, some remarkable observations were found about the name of the places and the people around that area :



The trail followed the north bank of the river Paranapanema and crossed the great river Paraná towards a settlement marked on older maps as Ivinheima (Ivin - Old High German Iwa. HEIMA - Old High German heim - country or country of Iwa). This place is now known as the Guarani "Yguarey" ("River of the ancient inhabitants" or "river of the old inhabitants").

The "iwa" a tree whose wood was red, rough but flexible, was used by the Northmen to make bows. Guayaki Indians used local palm-tatai acrocomia for the same purpose. Notably, the Guayaki Paraguayans are "aboriginal" Caucasian features (white) and, as demonstrated Jacques de Mahieu, are descendants of Nordics crossed with Guarani.








From Ivinheima, track Mesopotamia and crossing the crest of Cerro Cora (central place in this article) to the San Fernando Mountain on the east bank of the Paraguay River, just above a settlement marked on older maps as “Weibingo”.

The name "Weibingo" comes from a form of old norse JEV (road) and Vink (signaling) or vinkekl (angle) thus means "pole signaling" or more likely "curve of the track," the point where travelers along route from what is now Asuncion, had to turn left to get to Potosí (Bolivia).

A third interesting place, mentioned in the earlier counts Schmidel is Froenirtiere, where a stockade fort in ruins. Neither Ivinheima or Weibingo, nor Froenirtiere are names that have roots in Native American or Spanish languages.


Here is an english version about the material in discussion, special interest in chapter 8 :



To finish I want to leave you with food for thought - a bit of a mystery. There is a region of Paraguay where overwhelming evidence exists of Viking occupation during the Post Viking period after AD 1000. And there we were thinking that the back blocks of Paraguay and Brazil were occupied by some more recent Germanic refugees…….. Runic inscriptions indicate a dialect very close to the language spoken by the inhabitants of the Schleswig/Jutland peninsula on the Baltic Sea in current Northern Germany where it borders Denmark


Here is a video with CC available, best part starts at 2:40 :



www.arqueologicas.com.ar...

www.slideshare.net...

www.arqueologicas.com.ar...

www.seam.gov.py...

www.seam.gov.py...

www.scribd.com...

cafehistoria.ning.com...

ENGLISH :

www.scribd.com...



edit on 28-10-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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the pic of folks measuring looks Photoshopped



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 03:14 AM
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Uh haplogroup ydna tests would clear that up. Male natives carry haplogroup X. I
If these natives are crossed their haplogroup will be European like I or H
edit on 28-10-2012 by favouriteslave because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by zonetripper2065
the pic of folks measuring looks Photoshopped


Chances for that pic to be photoshopped are zero, according to me. The source :


SEAM Today has a first-class team, composed of auditors and specialists, highly trained and accompanied all the necessary equipment and the latest technology to perform the work, inspections, interventions (and document digitally) operating with a mobilization exceptional.


www.seam.gov.py...
edit on 28-10-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by favouriteslave
 


That would help for sure, but it's not just about the people. I consider the carvings an amazing evidence and the main point of the thread.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by Trueman
 


the angles just don't look right to me.
edit on 28-10-2012 by zonetripper2065 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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Vikings getting down as far as South America seems to be stretching things a little but then again I really wouldnt put it past those Norsemen to have done it.We know the got as far as the eastern coast of the US,I don't think that's disputed anymore.If they kept following the coastline round the Gulf of Mexico they could have certainly got down as far as South America itself.

The mistake people make is assume all Viking were like the marauding hit and run war bands that decimated Christian monastarys and isolated villages around the coast of England and Ireland during the later Dark Ages.

In the exact same way our whole knowledge of the Druids is based solely on Roman commentators our perception of the Vikings is based on Christian reports of rape,murder and pillage but that was the exception not the norm.These were highly skilled,resourceful seafarers,traders,settlers,farmers,colonisers and explorers who we know for sure went out from Scandanavia as far as the Black Sea and the the Middle East trading,some say even China whilst settling around the Artic rim,Orkney,Shetland,Faroes,Iceland,Greenland,Canada,America,Scotland,Ireland,half of England and of course - the part of France the king had to give to the Norsemen in exchange for a truce.Hence the Normans who came from Normandy,,William the Bastard (the Conqueror) was basically a Viking that had been born in France but in outlook,culture and certainly military thinking very much a Viking !!



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by Trueman
 


Your Post is quite interesting, but I am a little confused in one point, You noted these carvings where some 5000 Years Old.

That predates the "Viking" era.

I noted the Article suggested a more appropriate period of 1000 AD.

3000 BC vs 1000 AD is quite a span of time. Can you clear that up for me?

The Compass was very nice though. Someone there was a navigator, and it bears witness to a visitation at some point.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by Trueman
 
I note that the Paraguayan government report...reads like a press release... on the archaeology, says nothing about Vikings or runes. It does say that Paraguay has a prehistorical past identical to the rest of the continent. If this Norse concept has any traction, you can bet that Scandinavian scholars would be all over it. The silence on that front says much. The sites would have metal in them as well as they knew how to smelt. Lots of opportunities to make an academic connection if it is there.

Hey...great if it's true, but I'm filing it under unproven speculation for now.
Still, S&F for bringing this forward.

edit on 28-10-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by Shane
reply to post by Trueman
 


Your Post is quite interesting, but I am a little confused in one point, You noted these carvings where some 5000 Years Old.

That predates the "Viking" era.

I noted the Article suggested a more appropriate period of 1000 AD.

3000 BC vs 1000 AD is quite a span of time. Can you clear that up for me?

The Compass was very nice though. Someone there was a navigator, and it bears witness to a visitation at some point.

Ciao

Shane


I wish I have an answer for that too. What I believe is the carvings were made for different people in different times. I would say this place stores untold recorded history.

Some of the carvings represent local animals and activities, like in many other places. The runes must be done by different people.


Ancient history is the study of the written past[1] from the beginning of recorded human history to the Early Middle Ages. The span of recorded history is roughly 5,000 years,


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Yeah, I understand what you mean and I know there is not enough material to confirm the theory, I would like to wait to see what else comes up regarding all this.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by fastbob72
 


Well, I got to tell you I don't believe Columbus was the first guy from another continent to visit us. We've been induced to think that for more than 500 years.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by fastbob72
 
Well, I got to tell you I don't believe Columbus was the first guy from another continent to visit us. We've been induced to think that for more than 500 years.

It has been proven that the Norse got to Canada around 1000 AD. Nothing says there weren't others...again, just waitin' on the iron-clad evidence. But conjecture fuels the search.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Here is another interesting video, notice the iron axe found there :





.....hmmm, hard to say right?



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Here is another element to consider :


The god Tupa (also called Tupavé and Tenondeté), is the supreme deity of the Guarani race (Wood Carving in Mythological Museum Ramon Elias Capiatá City, Paraguay). It has the same functions as the god Thor of northern Europe.


....and more :



In addition, seven Nordic monsters have their equivalent, with the same functions. The Yaguahú (Jäger, hunter, Hund, dog), the norse hunter dog, in Norse myth is Gorm. The Tu'i Mboi is the great serpent (Yormund). The Scandinavian monai is an elf, which is dedicated to the theft, which treasures in caves. The Yasi Yateré is a sylph with blue eyes and blond hair; appropriated fairy wand. The Scandinavian Kurupí is Freyr, sensual and hunter, with great phallus. The Ao Ao is a giant in Norse mythology, able to engulf and transform into a monster. The wolf Fenris Huicho is, of around cemeteries and feeds on corpses.


www.portalguarani.com...

Seems there is a lot more to analyze.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Trueman
Here is another element to consider :


The god Tupa (also called Tupavé and Tenondeté), is the supreme deity of the Guarani race (Wood Carving in Mythological Museum Ramon Elias Capiatá City, Paraguay). It has the same functions as the god Thor of northern Europe.


....and more :

uh no it doesn't, thor was a god of storms, tupa was a sun god. also thor was not a creator god, odin and his brothers created the world from the remains of ymir after they killed him. humans were created by odin and two other gods, neither thor.





In addition, seven Nordic monsters have their equivalent, with the same functions. The Yaguahú (Jäger, hunter, Hund, dog), the norse hunter dog, in Norse myth is Gorm. The Tu'i Mboi is the great serpent (Yormund). The Scandinavian monai is an elf, which is dedicated to the theft, which treasures in caves. The Yasi Yateré is a sylph with blue eyes and blond hair; appropriated fairy wand. The Scandinavian Kurupí is Freyr, sensual and hunter, with great phallus. The Ao Ao is a giant in Norse mythology, able to engulf and transform into a monster. The wolf Fenris Huicho is, of around cemeteries and feeds on corpses.


www.portalguarani.com...

Seems there is a lot more to analyze.

uh no, garmr guarded the gates of hel, he might have come from the same source as cerberus. he was a singular monster, the yaguahu were at various points a wolf. a sea lion, a half wolf lizard monster, but more than one, it was a species that ate the people.

the tu'i boi sounds nothing like jormungandr, he was the child of loki and encircled the earth, he was a giant snake and the tui boi was a serpent parrot that lived in marshlands.
where the heck did this guy get that monai is an elf? he is a monster, he looks sort of like a lamprey with antenna that would hypnotize people. elves looked like humans not eels. also he would hide his misdeeds in caves, not treasure.

Yasi Yateré looks nothing like a sylph, it was a god, sylphs were water spirits and they are female! HE was male and a god, and the norse didn't have sylphs!
Kurupí is not freyr, kurupí is a short hairy monster who rapes and kills women, and the only way to protect yourself is by cutting his penis off.
Ao Ao looks like a giant sheep or peccary, not just a giant, it eats humans, it doesn't transform, it is a monster.

Fenris Huicho sounds like more made up nonsense, who ever wrote this junk has no clue about norse or european mythology or guarani mythology. i've never seen such painful mangling of either.
en.wikipedia.org...
maybe you should look up sources that tell you about the myths and not just sources that attempt to prove a claim?
the stuff from your source is just awful, it's like they have never read about either of the cultures.
edit on 28-10-2012 by demongoat because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-10-2012 by demongoat because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by demongoat
 


Thanks for clear that up brother. I present the material to discuss wishing other members with knowledge I don't have can verify. Star for you.
edit on 28-10-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by demongoat
 


Thanks for clear that up brother. I present the material to discuss wishing other members with knowledge I don't have can verify. Star for you.
edit on 28-10-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)

no problem!
i found the claims passingly strange, there is common ground in all myths, they are our window into the past about the peoples beliefs after all.
the commonality is humans fear what they do not know and make up stories, generating them from their surroundings and understanding.
no doubt you will see common motifs between groups, some more pronounced than others, though you will find more depending on the geographical locations of the two groups, ie:the closer the groups the more common the cross pollination of myths.

many people wish to believe that native americans and european or ME or asian groups would have myths that have a lot in common, like this person you quoted but the evidence shows that other than making connections to common human perception, none of those groups really have any myths in common.
what i mean is, generally all peoples will have rain gods, fire gods, storm gods, sun gods, earth gods, etc.
they will have giant monsters, small humanoids, spirits, magical beings, witches, etc.
they fear a great flooding of water if they live near a water source, and this is the majority of people. or disease, or lightning or other things wrought by the gods,

why? because humans share the same fears, hopes, dreams, desires.
this is one thing i've noted about a lot of folks on many websites, they rationalize away the commonality of humanity and replace it with the belief that there has to be a single source for it all, or one comes from another.

some do, but only if they are geographically close.

sorry i'm a mythology buff and i tend to ramble.



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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Here is another intriguing carving from the same area.....what kind of boat it looks like my friends ?



There are lots of good res pics of the site here :

users.telenet.be...
edit on 28-10-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Good find.

I am not surprised at all with this finding in South America. The dating of the runes could be disputed however. After stumbling across the similarities between the Aztec god of war and the Norse god of war I have no doubt of earlier Viking landings in the Americas. A number of these landings could have been a one way trip due to shipwreck. When this happened cultural blending was the only option.

If you haven’t done so already, check out my related thread titled, The Aztec and Norse god of war are both missing one hand.





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