For all those who like war or think war's necessary...

Oh gradyphillpott, the 3000 people in te WTC boohoo...

Reallly the only thing you can come up with (in defence of what im am not even sure.. war?!?) is the WTC?

This has gone *zoom* right over your head hasn't it.

There we are trying to agree that war is naughty, very naughty and your knee jerk reaction is to leap into defence mode and shout "look they did it first", bringing up the WTC again. Even in terms of casualty numbers the WTC is a joke, just count the amount of bombs the US dropped on cambodia for way less of a reason, can you remember Kissinger (Dr. Evil himself) saying "everything that flys on every thing that moves" ? GET WITH THE PROGRAM, NOT THE PROGRAMMING!

Edit: including big up for sweatmonicaIdo

Yeah one mother of a post there bro!



[edit on 19/10/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by Corinthas
Oh gradyphillpott, the 3000 people in te WTC boohoo...
[edit on 19/10/2004 by Corinthas]

show some respect!

Some people I know did not make it out of there.

as exemplified here, class cannot be taught

Too bad our officials have no interest in finding out who was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and in fact actively repressed inquiries.

All the government learned was that if you scare people, you have carte blanche to do anything you want in the name of National Security.

Since people can barely be mustered to care about 9/11, since politicians have used the tragedy like a two-dollar whore for the past three years, we'll have to have an even bigger terrorist attack here to rally people again.

But that won't happen, because people already smell bull# from the first one.

We'll get these Bush bastards for bombing their own country. Mark my words.

Originally posted by Facefirst

show some respect!

No, none, zip, zilch respect for the 3000 dead of a naton that murders millions (THATS MILLIONS) by the minute! Just do the maths the US would have to be nuked 5 times over to get the causalty lists even again. So stop the whining and look at the real score in terms of megadeaths OK?!?!

I will respect individals but not numbers,so sorry if you have lost people you knew personally its always hard to accept the absurd.

Originally posted by Corinthas

Originally posted by Facefirst

show some respect!

No, none, zip, zilch respect for the 3000 dead of a naton that murders millions (THATS MILLIONS) by the minute! Just do the maths the US would have to be nuked 5 times over to get the causalty lists even again. So stop the whining and look at the real score in terms of megadeaths OK?!?!

I will respect individals but not numbers,so sorry if you have lost people you knew personally its always hard to accept the absurd.

YOU ARE NOT SORRY. IF YOU WERE, YOU WOULD HAVE NOT WRITTEN A THING.

Millions?
Prove it?

The British, Japanese, GERMANS and Chinese have much more blood to attone for than us. As said before, we are not perfect, but we try to do well as a people. Can't say the same for a ex-pat Irishman who sits in another country and points fingers? Perhaps you should have stayed there and helped as opposed to fleeing?

Oh! But Bill CLinton went in there and did it for you! Damn those hateful warlike Americans!

Or is this going to be another one of your baseless urban legends involving US concentration camps that you cannot suddenly provide proof of to back your accusations?

I am still waiting for my proof of US Itaiian and Greek Concentration camps........ you didn't think I would forget?



[edit on 19-10-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
If I remember correctly, didn't you say that you couldn't wait to get out of college to go join the U.S. Marines and become commissioned as an Officer?

To me, you're doing the "Kerry-Two-step!"

Or do you want to go into service just to be kicked out for refusing orders to go into combat?

You're one way one minute then you do a "180" the next! War is necessary at times and people will get maimed and killed. There is nothing on the planet that will change this fact!

That was absolutely hilarious. You just admitted you completely endorse war and you think everyone should be ready to kill people.

For one thing, military personnel aren't going in thinking "I gotta' go to war." Rather their thinking "I gotta' go to war if they make me." Nobody ever goes to war because they want to, they go because someone made them. Even if they signed up, in the end someone still gives them the order to go out and the fact they had to sign up meant that they have to be ordered to war in the first place.

That said, joining the military is in no way saying one endorses war. No time in history has the military been responsible for starting a war. It's always been the so-called "leaders." Our leaders created those images, not the military. Great try, though.

I understand your anger that we don't enjoy the same level of violence the people we call our leaders like to enflict on the world. It makes it all kinda boring, doesn't it?

This right here:

No, none, zip, zilch respect for the 3000 dead of a naton that murders millions (THATS MILLIONS) by the minute! Just do the maths the US would have to be nuked 5 times over to get the causalty lists even again. So stop the whining and look at the real score in terms of megadeaths OK?!?!

I will respect individals but not numbers,so sorry if you have lost people you knew personally its always hard to accept the absurd.

And this here:

YOU ARE NOT SORRY. IF YOU WERE, YOU WOULD HAVE NOT WRITTEN A THING.

Millions?
Prove it?

The British, Japanese, GERMANS and Chinese have much more blood to attone for than us. As said before, we are not perfect, but we try to do well as a people. Can't say the same for a ex-pat Irishman who sits in another country and points fingers? Perhaps you should have stayed there and helped as opposed to fleeing?

Oh! But Bill CLinton went in there and did it for you! Damn those hateful warlike Americans!

Or is this going to be another one of your baseless urban legends involving US concentration camps that you cannot suddenly provide proof of to back your accusations?

I am still waiting for my proof of US Itaiian and Greek Concentration camps........ you didn't think I would forget?

That's the mentality of man. Behind ALL war. Both of them are stating justification for one side's actions/hostilities toward the other.

Both situations are sad, neither one of them is "correct".

Injustice + Injustice = Justince?

No.

Death + Death = Life?

No.


That's the mentality of your average populace, bred by their government and society.

That's your mentality of war.


Maybe we'll evolve/mature from this one day, if we don't kill ourselves first.


X

[edit on 19-10-2004 by Xatnys]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
monica wouldn't last a week at the Basic School.

Was that supposed to be insulting? Sorry to say Grady, but I feel as if you are way past your prime when it comes to insults. Time to consider retirement in that field.

Xatny's

to you.

It's sad that all we can think about is killing.

What disturbs me the most if how these people try so hard to justify all this killing when you can never justify it. I mean at best it is what it is. Why is it so ahrd for people to understand that killing is killing and war is war. They always try so hard to rewrite the book of life and reality but they always fail.

Thanks sweatmonicaIdo,


It's just what the current society breeds. Most are conditioned with "patriotism" which is fine when it's just a love for country, but when it blinds millions for sake of war and destruction, that's insane.

"I love my country so much that we should kill 70,000 people from this other country. And all the while we and they, the poor citizens are dieing, I can at least feel good that I'm feeding huge multinational corporations and the Military Industrial Complex."


Weird to read that above line, it seems so "alien" to me.


Truly, governments and big business create their livelihood and prosperity off of perpetual war.

So I guess they don't operate on gold, silver, or fiat money. I think the "steam" that drives this machine is blood.

Blood of the poor, blood of the meek, blood of the foolish and proud, and worst: Blood of the innocent.


X

Originally posted by Corinthas

Originally posted by Facefirst

show some respect!

No, none, zip, zilch respect for the 3000 dead of a naton that murders millions (THATS MILLIONS) by the minute! Just do the maths the US would have to be nuked 5 times over to get the causalty lists even again. So stop the whining and look at the real score in terms of megadeaths OK?!?!

I will respect individals but not numbers,so sorry if you have lost people you knew personally its always hard to accept the absurd.

What an A$$HOLE, I don't know if there is any more apropriate response.

@ Facefirst

You just keep me informed about what i feel ok, so tell me next time i feel sorry ok? I'd hate to miss it.

As to the millon deaths the US caused... you are asking me to prove it?!?!
You just need to go out there and find the info for yourself its out there if you care enough to find out.

Thats greek concentration camps and italian election rigging by the way, but i am not sure i can be bothered to do the research now especially not for a bunch of ingrates that will say it never happened anyway.

dig up dirt yourself oh and that pint or so... naahh don't think ill bother now.

Originally posted by OpenMinded
However, I wonder how many kids were murdered by Saddam and company? I wonder how many kids are brainwashed from infancy to HATE other cultures? How many of these babies could have grown up to hate you or I to the point they wouldn't even blink before killing us and our families?

Well to date we have murdered about 40,000 Iraqi men, women, and children, oh excuse me, we liberated them. Well you can guarantee one thing we just created a whole new generation of American hating people. Oops, I messed up again, they are freedom loving people.

Now many of these babies, who would never have seen an American, will amply seek to destroy us because of our actions.

It turns my stomach to hear people say, "How many people did Sadaam gas? It's good that we went in there and got rid of him," and that person fails to realize that we have killed and will kill as many if not more Iraqi's than Sadaam ever did. Will we torure some of them, absolutely. Will we make martyr's of them, yes. Will we suck their resources dry, yes. Will we make Iraqi's have a better life, yes, it's called like your new democratic life or die.

I just looked at the post Grady left. Hey A-hole didn't you think that maybe people on this board had friends or relatives at the WTC? You are a jerkoff for posting that to make a statement about why war is necessary. You have no respect. If I want to delve into the horrors of my past I think I can find time to do it myself WITHOUT YOUR DAMN HELP! A_HOLE!

Originally posted by aryaputhra
War is truly not cool. I read one members post that only God can save this world from war. I disagree there. War is mankind's creation, not God thus stopping it is not God's priority.

Unfortunately humankind will find a million reasons why they engage in war, the basic essence of which is subjugation of will from one's point of view to the other - by forceful means. That's all. Pity if only these very people could realise that the best way to achieve that is through winning the trust of the said "enemy" and engaging with them.

"Thou shalt love thy enemy".

I sincerely hope the next US administration (whichever it is) does not actively persue war as a means to an end. In fact there will be no end to war if one party percieves that the other's actions are unjustifiable, which I'm afraid has been the dominant policy of almost all western nations till now.

Pity.

Hi,

God, as revealed through Jesus Christ, taught mankind that, with God's help, each individual can overcome our innate selfishness and learn to love one another as we love ourselves and even consider others more important than ourselves. Jesus Himself was willing to sacrifice Himself to save others. If each of us in the world did this, there would never be another war ever again.

Unfortunately, this will not happen because the majority of the world does not know Jesus or His power to overcome our innate natures. There is also a devil who is happy to influence people toward evil of all kinds. The book of Ephesians is very clear that we Christians fight not against flesh and blood, though that is all we see, but rather we fight against the devil and his demons as they have influenced people with vulnerable souls around the world.

Many of those who follow humanistic philosophies will not believe what I have said. Since to many of them, there is no good and no evil. Therefore, it is illogical to think that another country would take us or any other country out for their own ends. If we all sit down and talk, we can understand and agree and war is NEVER necessary. The UN provides such a forum to discuss and resolve such issues, doesn't it?

The United Nations represented the best that humanistic philosophies about the goodness of people's hearts had to offer. The UN was supposed to present a forum for all countries to understand each other. If all men are good and there is no absolute evil, then simply talking it all out would be fine.

Except, we now find out that the UN's major players on the Security
Council were taking kickbacks in the BILLIONS!!! From Hussein and would
never have voted for war no matter what and would turn their backs on massive human suffering for their own ends. The best that humanists had
to offer in discussion has been found to be hopelessly corrupt. Wishing people to be good at the core does not make that so.

There never has been a world organization that offers a utopian forum
to resolve such issues and there never will be. We, I included, are described as having hearts from which pour all kinds of evil on our own and that without Jesus help, we will never change. No wonder that most of the deployments of world-wide troops around the world are "peacekeeping" troops whose mission is to keep people from killing each other from centuries of pent-up hatred.

Sometimes, in the Old Testament, God has ordered people and countries to make war as a judgement to eliminate the evil of a set of people that will not follow Him. In the New Testament, in the age of grace given to us by Jesus, it is much more uncertain from the Bible when war is authorized and approved by God. We are to love our enemies, but I do not know that that always means we stand by as they oppress other people. Engaging and talking with some people simply will not always work. I do not believe that Saddam Hussein lowered people into tubs of acid because he came from a broken home and that a little therapy would help. Some are so far gone that they only respond to force to mend their ways.

No one wants a just peace in the world more than I do...but I have seen too much to believe it will ever happen before Jesus comes to reign on Earth. In fact, it will get worse, much worse, before He returns.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

monica wouldn't last a week at the Basic School.

firstly comeing from a pongo , sorry other army guys but this guy deserves it, this comment doesnt mean much.
i mean army and marine training is diffrent. army is trained for a long stay ,marines are trained to stay for less than 6 months.
and secodnly army outnumbers marines like 3 to 1 , so they'll logicaly have higher training standards. not to say the army , no country in specific, are not good they just are not trained the same way as marines and do better in some fields than marines and vice versa.

Originally posted by managerie
Many of those who follow humanistic philosophies will not believe what I have said. Since to many of them, there is no good and no evil. Therefore, it is illogical to think that another country would take us or any other country out for their own ends. If we all sit down and talk, we can understand and agree and war is NEVER necessary. The UN provides such a forum to discuss and resolve such issues, doesn't it?

Hey.

I beg to differ. Just because one follows humanistic philosophies doesn't mean we think war is necessary. I follow humanistic philosophies and I started this thread! It's not about religion or philosophy. It's about emotion and the basic sadness that comes with death.

To me, the biggest difference is that some will use their religion or humanistic philosophy as an excuse for their actions, which I think is very "bad." But there are those who are religious or follow humanistic philosophies that don't try to excuse our actions through them. Look at people like George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden. They used their religion to justify everything they did. Thank goodness, none of us were that stupid (except for Grady and intel) to actually believe a word they said!

It's all about how you use your beliefs, not what you believe.

Originally posted by vincere7

Well to date we have murdered about 40,000 Iraqi men, women, and children, oh excuse me, we liberated them. Well you can guarantee one thing we just created a whole new generation of American hating people. Oops, I messed up again, they are freedom loving people.

Oh OK so when Iraqis blow up their own people ( which is the vast majority of civilian deaths ) it's America's fault. Please open your eyes or at least make an attempt at finding out the facts before you post. There are so many dummies out there

Originally posted by devilwasp
firstly comeing from a pongo , sorry other army guys but this guy deserves it, this comment doesnt mean much.
i mean army and marine training is diffrent. army is trained for a long stay ,marines are trained to stay for less than 6 months.
and secodnly army outnumbers marines like 3 to 1 , so they'll logicaly have higher training standards. not to say the army , no country in specific, are not good they just are not trained the same way as marines and do better in some fields than marines and vice versa.

LOL you just find a way to bring in military training information in everything, don't you?

Originally posted by Cypher
sweatmonicaIdo,

War is obviously a horrible, nasty process, but your argument lacks any perspective. To use pictures like those as a reason for not fighting a war is to ignore mitigating circumstances and the causes behind the war.

the causes behind those attacks , not war since there is no actual singular or plural enemy. terrorist a noun for some one who attacks the goverment or its people. THEY were terrorists on 9/11 and attacking alquida is a good plan im 100% in support of it.
but one thing , during the cold war the US supplied the talaban with weapons and supplies to fight the russians ,so in essance you created your own problem.