Economic Systems Thread

Do you care about your future or your childrens future? If so, then please participate in this thread.

I want your input on what way(s) socalism is better than capitalism?

I dont know about you all, but I'm sick of capitalism. Why? Because it seems like the poor get poorer, and those nowadays without a decent paying job can't land any. It effects me when too many people are poor or can't get a job how it should effect you.

Any other economic systems you wish to touch on feel free to go right ahead in this thread.

Say, those poor, or flat out broke, under capitalism right now would benefit indeed if the economic system turned to socalism, yes? Explain how so or how not.

Socialism is quite a large spectrum imo, and communism is the extreme. I think socialism would only be bad for the rich and any person who isn't rich and doesn't agree, has sadly been brainwashed.
I mean over here in the UK we find it baffling that people are against it in the US. I mean what could possibly be wrong with free health care for the poor and needy etc... as it is only a small tax per month for those in work and the rich go private anyway.

Its all flawed in my opinion.

Humanity needs a significant shift in thinking to create a world that is united.

I hate to sound like a Trek Geek, but we need to find a new motive that one aspires to, instead of monetary gain.

Cue star trek music..(Next generation version)

It doesn't really matter which "ism" is used.
They will all be undermined by greedy, corrupt men.
That is the common thread.

OK, before we get into this whole Capitalism, Solcialism, Communism Paradigm. I wish for EVERYONE to watch these three film documentaries by the BBC. Independent scholarly studies examining the reason we are the way we are now, and why we think thins way.

It WILL take 3 Hours. but it is worth it, and you will come out of it knowing the whole system is rotten, but more so WHY it is rotten.

Knowing this will help the "freemen" make better life choices.








Good luck all

reply to post by MDDoxs


Try looking up the Venus Project.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Try looking up the Venus Project.

Yea, its a interesting concept. For those who dont know what he is referring to

The Venus Project is an organization started by self-educated structural engineer, industrial designer, and futurist Jacque Fresco. Fresco's project aims to restructure society through worldwide utilization of a theoretical design that he calls a resource-based economy. Those ideas use a version of sustainable cities, energy efficiency, natural resource management and advanced automation with a global socio-economic system based on social cooperation and scientific methodology.

I think a society could be constructed under this paradigm, and allow for more people to seek purely scientific or spiritual development.

reply to post by MDDoxs

Cue star trek music..(Next generation version)

Precisely!


Yeah, you see... the problem with socialism, is that it's run by humans.

Same as capitalism.

In theory, Every economic system in the world would work perfectly fine.... except for the fact that humans not only comprise them, but also run them.

The whole star trek economy didn't really exist, because their society was, for the most part, post scarcity.

They just replicated everything, so you can't really call the Star Trek economy "Socialism" in any sense of the word, because they didn't really HAVE an economy.

Star Fleet was an entirely volunteer organization, and it's members were not actually paid.

reply to post by MDDoxs


The only flaw we have to contend with, is what nash described in his "game theory" the problem was that even nash now states that this is too simplistic.

Given the current situation, I do know know how we could move logistically that a V.P type resource based society. Although it is fine in principle, the catalyst needed to move us to this, would have to be massive!

However, this can still be achived on a local basis, WITHOUT the enforced veganism, or rubbish herbal teas!

To answer your question, yes, everyone would "benefit" under socialism to an extent. Under the economic standard of socialism, everyone's basic needs are met by an altruistic society. The problem with socialism is that it has never ever worked in any country it has been attempted. When a government tries to directly control an economy, citizens begin to lose basic rights. All socialistic countries have spiraled into complete totalitarian control and hundreds of millions have lost their lives for simply disagreeing with their government. In the US, capitalism was considered lasseiz-faire. Government was supposed to enforce laws protecting our natural rights. But, over time, all of your "isms" have slowly crept into all matters of our lives. Capitalism does work when properly practiced by a civil society. When rights are violated, then the government steps in and protects you from criminals. What we see today in the US is a government that is corrupt to the core. They create monopolies with anti-trust laws, they pick winners and losers with bailouts and "green" initiatives, they tax citizens in ways that should not be legal.

So my short is: The problem with socialism is too much government. The problem with capitalism is too much government.

Originally posted by WarJohn
Say, those poor, or flat out broke, under capitalism right now would benefit indeed if the economic system turned to socalism, yes?

Capitalism doesn't exist in practice anywhere in the world right now. There is no free market. There is no profit/loss incentive. All economies are centrally planned.

As for compulsory government distribution or socialism, I think that whenever we depart from voluntary cooperation and claim we can "do good" by using force, then the bad moral value of force triumphs over good intentions. There is a difference between government treating people equally and government attempting to make people equal.

If you actually understand socialism, and still want to live under that system, nobody is stopping you. I have no problem if this is the way you want to live. I can certainly tolerate the existence of a socialist community if it leaves me alone. Socialists need to ask themselves why their ideology cannot exist unless everyone is subjected into it as well.

interesting topic to say the least and i'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum but i have come to the conclusion that no system will ever work until people of our world actually begin to understand we are all in this together.

until we all genuinely care about each other nothing will help us, not science, not religion and no amount of political or economic models. in the same sentence i suppose they would all work if we all cared more about each other than anything else we do as a global population.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Yes, we are all in this together... but that does not mean that I, as an individual, need to be a sacrificial animal for anothers means of existence.

One fundamental problem of both systems is that control of natural resources is consolidated in the hands of a relative few. Capitalism, corporations. Socialism, the state. Maybe the answer is to have no "system", as we know it, at all.

reply to post by WarJohn


Who knows if this is a viable plan, but more people should be aware of it as public banking has been operating successfully in North Dakota since the early 1900s and twenty states are currently looking at implementing this model.

www.publicbankinginstitute.org...

Why Public Banking?

Public banking frees the credit potential of public revenues and then harnesses this public wealth to create sustainable, abundant and affordable credit. This credit -- our credit -- supports our economy and citizens if it is then used to build economic capacity (think renewable energy, sustainable agriculture, etc. -- things that private banks do not fund).

What's Happening in your State?
Find out by clicking on the map.