Restaurants to mitigate health care costs by cutting hours

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posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl



Regardless...you are finally talking about a topic I know about. If hours are cut they are going to be managerial hours. Please do continue what ever argument you are trying to make. Your fan club awaits.....
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Sorry they don't cut manager's hours. We make up for the labor shortage when business volumes are low. Besides that we are paid salary so no overtime. It's actually cheaper to have less employees and a "hands on manager". The manager still has to account for budgets,staffing ect... Plus now he/she can be the fry cook or dishwasher for a couple of hours. This is the new way and oh so good for the bottom line.


Mostly BS They can't cut employee hours LOL they depend on the managers to tell them what is necessary. But really.....'bout time you guys got your hands dirty. Cheers!
edit on 19-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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I managed a Waffle House for 8 years, in the 1990's. I was salaried and averaged about $60k per year - a base salary of $28.5K and the rest in incentives. Most of my peers did not make as much as I did. I was really good. In fact so good that I was one of only two people in the state to run a "training unit" ( In store manager training program ). I also won quite a number of awards. I was among the best of the best.

For this I was scheduled 56 hours per week "productive". In the company I worked for "productive" meant "cooking". In addition to that 56 hours of cooking I had to:

1) Supervise all employees. I was the only supervisor on site.
2) Train all employees.
3) Train my manager trainees.
4) Do payroll
5) Attend a weekly three hour managers meeting.
6) Check in and store all food deliveries.
7) Be present for all shift changes ( on the days I worked ) - 7:00 am, 2:00 pm, 9:00 pm
8) Do the profits and losses paperwork daily
9) Cover all employee call-ins ( even in those days, I had mostly part time employees - less than 35 hours - and the company policy was always "skeleton" crew based.
10) I worked every Holiday. That means even the ones nobody pays attention to, like Columbus day. Oh, and local "Holidays" as well. We have a NASCAR track in this area. Two races per year. Race weeks are "blackout" weeks. No days off for management for the 7 day period.

That's not even all of it, But it gives on an idea. It was nothing for me to work 90 hours in a week. I probably averaged about 85-90 hours per week the entire time I was there. I honestly cannot count the times during "blue flu" periods where I had no choice but to work and be "productive" ( the only cook on hand ) for 40 to 60 straight hours - with no break at all. There was never mercy about these things. If I worked 60 straight hours ( happened at least five or six times ) and finally got relieved - I was still expected to fulfill the remainder of my "productive" schedule. To put that into perspective... I show up at 6:00 am on a Monday. Cook almost non stop until 9:00 on Wednesday night - and still be expected to show up Thursday at 6:00 am and to also work a full schedule on Friday and Saturday too.

When I got married I requested my five vacation days plus I asked to be scheduled with my days off to book end those five days - giving me nine days for a wedding and honeymoon. I was denied outright. After much argument it was decided I could have seven days off, but only if I called to check in every day I was gone, gave contact information where I could be reached, and I had to sign a contract saying that, if asked, I would be on a plane, back home within 6 hours.

Yeah - one of the worst companies ever. These days they've really changed. Now managers aren't very productive, I am told... but they make nothing for money. I do not set foot in Waffle Houses often. But a year or two ago I did so, and spoke to the manager, who was bragging about making $25k per year.

Why do I share this nightmare story here? Because that is the business model that many companies are moving towards. That is what many businesses think of their people. I was unbelievably good at what I did. On all levels. I was arguably the best short order cook in the company - and also one of the best managers. I ran the best numbers... and I was TOTALLY expendable. They saw my over eager butt coming and said "This one will burn out slow and we'll make a MASSIVE amount of money on his back. And they did.

That's the future. That's what things like "free market" and "deregulated" gets you.

The ironic thing? I left that job to enter management training with Wal Mart.


I was pretty damned stupid in my twenties. But I learned eventually.

~Heff



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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Mostly BS They can't cut employee hours LOL they depend on the managers to tell them what is necessary. But really.....'bout time you guys got your hands dirty. Cheers!
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Obviously you don't work for a living or have a limited view on how business actually works. Managers in the restuarant industry always "got their hands dirty". You must have us confused with hedge fund managers. Sorry we actually work for a living. My post was to demonstrate how corporations misuse all employees. The complaint is not the work (I would not work in this industry if I did not enjoy my job). It's how in the past ten years one person now performs the job of two or three people for the pay of one. We work 16 hours a day with no breaks. Most times we work 9 days straight without a day off. Some of our days off are spent at meetings, scheduling or other admin tasks. We don't have the option of calling in sick because there is no one to cover for us. Taking vacation time is a skillful art. "Hands Dirty"? Get a clue. When increasing profitability employee hours are the first to get cut. Do you know anything about labor costs and productivity? Obviously not. Productivity measures how much work you can get from your staff (FYI although pay has decreased over the years productivity has risen). Labor costs determines whether or not the manager gets a bonus or employees get a raise. See corporations have what they call profit. Anything that effects that profit gets anaylzed to determine what is best for the stock holders or upper management not mid-managers, employees or customers. Most restaurants are only fully staffed for peak hours. So the manager or employee has to do his/her job as well as fill in where ever they are needed.Not a job for the weak or lazy. You my friend are either misinformed, full of crap or a troll. You have no idea what you are talking about. Get a life or better yet get educated before you post. Cheers!



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


How long have you managed people? The things you are saying are the things I have typically heard from newly hired supervisory staff.

- it is not the employees job to determine our staffing/overstaffing situation. If they call in because they believe we are overstaffed, and they haven't even shown up for work yet, that is an issue that needs to be dealt with as it regards overall leadership. Were I given that excuse, that person would likely be terminated.

- if you schedule using last years ledger, you are doing it wrong. Forecasting is done off a combination of the prior 13 weeks, with the prior two weeks trends acting as a "reforecasting" modifier. The only thing you use the last year business for is making sure you don't overlook holidays, or for determining traffic increases during special events (where last year is the only data to go on). But what happpened last year, outside of the special event, is wholly irrelevant to this year. If you believe differently, then you also have a business plan, by default, that has not planned any growth.

- Bad manager? Well...since I know how to forecast, and I understand that the tail doesn't wag the dog when it comes to scheduling, I would say you have a problem of perspective.

- If you think the managers job is to get people fed without complaint, you are doing nothing more than serving slop in a mess hall. In our restaurant the managers job is to secure 5 star service for our guests. Not only can there be no complaints, but the word perfection itself must be redefined each and every night. The same is expected in our bar and our banquet/catering service.

- if an employee in a tipped position cannot break even coming in to work, then they are obviously not cut out to work in my establishment. Their wage is an artifact of ticket price mixed with quality of service. We have a 4 star restaurant....so the ticket prices are there. It is up to the server to upsell if they want to make more money. That is what our wine list is for....to make more money.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by FreebirdGirl



Mostly BS They can't cut employee hours LOL they depend on the managers to tell them what is necessary. But really.....'bout time you guys got your hands dirty. Cheers!
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Obviously you don't work for a living or have a limited view on how business actually works. Managers in the restuarant industry always "got their hands dirty". You must have us confused with hedge fund managers. Sorry we actually work for a living. My post was to demonstrate how corporations misuse all employees. The complaint is not the work (I would not work in this industry if I did not enjoy my job). It's how in the past ten years one person now performs the job of two or three people for the pay of one. We work 16 hours a day with no breaks. Most times we work 9 days straight without a day off. Some of our days off are spent at meetings, scheduling or other admin tasks. We don't have the option of calling in sick because there is no one to cover for us. Taking vacation time is a skillful art. "Hands Dirty"? Get a clue. When increasing profitability employee hours are the first to get cut. Do you know anything about labor costs and productivity? Obviously not. Productivity measures how much work you can get from your staff (FYI although pay has decreased over the years productivity has risen). Labor costs determines whether or not the manager gets a bonus or employees get a raise. See corporations have what they call profit. Anything that effects that profit gets anaylzed to determine what is best for the stock holders or upper management not mid-managers, employees or customers. Most restaurants are only fully staffed for peak hours. So the manager or employee has to do his/her job as well as fill in where ever they are needed.Not a job for the weak or lazy. You my friend are either misinformed, full of crap or a troll. You have no idea what you are talking about. Get a life or better yet get educated before you post. Cheers!


All true but good managers are the exception and not the rule or you'd see more very successful restaurant chains out there. You must be using as your test group a field of one. Yours. I think you could do with a little education out side of the bubble.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by newcovenant
 


How long have you managed people? The things you are saying are the things I have typically heard from newly hired supervisory staff.

- it is not the employees job to determine our staffing/overstaffing situation. If they call in because they believe we are overstaffed, and they haven't even shown up for work yet, that is an issue that needs to be dealt with as it regards overall leadership. Were I given that excuse, that person would likely be terminated.

- if you schedule using last years ledger, you are doing it wrong. Forecasting is done off a combination of the prior 13 weeks, with the prior two weeks trends acting as a "reforecasting" modifier. The only thing you use the last year business for is making sure you don't overlook holidays, or for determining traffic increases during special events (where last year is the only data to go on). But what happpened last year, outside of the special event, is wholly irrelevant to this year. If you believe differently, then you also have a business plan, by default, that has not planned any growth.

- Bad manager? Well...since I know how to forecast, and I understand that the tail doesn't wag the dog when it comes to scheduling, I would say you have a problem of perspective.

- If you think the managers job is to get people fed without complaint, you are doing nothing more than serving slop in a mess hall. In our restaurant the managers job is to secure 5 star service for our guests. Not only can there be no complaints, but the word perfection itself must be redefined each and every night. The same is expected in our bar and our banquet/catering service.

- if an employee in a tipped position cannot break even coming in to work, then they are obviously not cut out to work in my establishment. Their wage is an artifact of ticket price mixed with quality of service. We have a 4 star restaurant....so the ticket prices are there. It is up to the server to upsell if they want to make more money. That is what our wine list is for....to make more money.




That's a mighty high horse you're riding there cowboy.

Too bad we don't have a lot of industry people who think the same way you do. They are watching their backs and have no integrity what so ever. You I am giving the benefit of the doubt but I don't know you either. I never said employees making decisions for the company should be encouraged however sometimes and in my experience your restaurant is already seriously over staffed. Cutbacks wouldn't kill you and why keep people standing around making 2 something an hour? In this state if you stand at the restaurant without customers to sell, upsell and hawk the wine to, your employer can consider part of your hourly the gratuities you made yesterday to make up your $7 and change, minimum wage earnings. It only pays to work if you are making money the whole time or most of it. And you'd terminate them? Sure. These people are not going to tell you that is why they feel flu-ish today so you can't terminate them. You'll having to pay their unemployment.

The best restaurants keep a calendar including special events and the weather and anything that affects their increase or lack of business. Like clockwork, to the day and to the person, this calendar will in 99% of cases repeat itself the following year, barring catastrophic disasters or unscheduled NEW events. If you don't know that - you're new.

You think serving food without complaint is a low bar and equivalent to slop in a mess hall do you? Further evidence of your inexperience and naivety. No matter what your scheme, schtick or price point if you cannot do this...Serve customer in a way that makes them happy and return (and that means without complaint) since "with complaint" means they will not return (a duh) then you don't know what you are doing. You grow your base from giving people what they want. A manager puts out fires and "fixes" everything that can and may go wrong with the best plans already laid out. They make sure the guest who has the rare bad experience is appeased and wants to return in spite of it. They facilitate the smooth operation of the floor and assures the happiness, satisfaction and comfort of the guest experience.

The word perfection is redefined each and every night.
Well bully for you. I might come back then.

If you have a good product and the employee can sell it, they will. They are doing the owner a favor because crappy employees can get lost in the jumble while all you are watching is the bottom line - that person many not contribute to the moral or cleanliness of the restaurant and might be bringing you down behind your back. Employees work on percentage of sales and volume too. They sometimes have quotas and cutthroat management techniques and favoritism and discrimination within the industry is rampant. You are doing them no favors paying them hourly plus tips and then complaining about providing their health care, which I think what this thread was about.

edit on 19-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Sound like a type A personality driven and talented.
Corporate will use that, burn you out and get another type A when you burn out. They prefer us to the slower but steady Type B's. B's take twice as long and use double the resources to get the same thing done.

That is the strategy at work and though it may be advantageous, I don't think that's anyway to run a company. I would like to see some allegiance and consideration for the "life" of a good and valuable employee in those calculations somewhere. Some reward for good managers such as yourself, such as myself that enable them to maintain their positions for the longer haul and thus have more security and decent lives with some free time and relief from the demands of the position.

I was that kind of a manager in the Colony Hotel on Ocean Drive Miami.
Kind of an icon although I certainly did no cooking.



Training, payroll, purchasing, supervising lunch and dinner on the floor. Trying to make people overlook the $400 apiece art deco chairs made of aluminum that chilled customers to the bone after a half an hour. The challenges are there in any place but after a few seasons of that pace my heath suffered miserably. I lost a great deal of weight because there was no time to eat. What little time I had to spare was spent getting much needed sleep. The owner came forward with the raises and upped my pay, every 6 months or so but there came a time when as much as I wanted it - the hours, at 80 plus on a salary were impossible to maintain. I was burnt out. Naturally I missed the paycheck but never regret not killing myself for an employer.
edit on 19-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 



If there is no work to be done, no one leans on a shovel. They get sent home.

But that is not for them to decide before their shift starts. We have a business agreement that they will show up as scheduled, and if not needed will be offered to go home.

As a manager it is MY job to forecast appropriately so that I don't leave them in the lurch. THey should expect that I will do my job expertly, because I sure expect it from them.

Yes, i would terminate for excessive absenteeism. I make my plans, and need my people to execute. If they want to decide when they will show up, they need to become their own boss and not enter into the business agreement with me. If they can't hold up their end, I will fire them. If I don't hold up my end, they will quit. That is the nature of a business arrangement: we both agree to terms before to commence, and we both agree on the remediation of failure to meet the agreed upon terms.

I don't use "a calendar". I use a combination of my point of sale system and caterease, along with a report I get from my local CVB so I can determine out of town traffic flow. It is all data related.

So, let me ask you this, in your calendar system....how to you reconcile a forecast for, say, Oct 19th of last year versus this year? Since, you know, this year the 19th is on a Friday and last year it was on a Tuesday. Two completely different days of the week to consider, although the date is the same. How do you reconcile that in your "calendar" system....and should I believe your S.W.A.G (Some Wild Assed Guess) number of 99% accuracy?

And perhaps this is why we seem to be talking two different languages here. You seem to think that people standing around not doing something is normal enough that it justifies people calling in. I, myself, think that is poor management and a failing of your team by not protecting their hours for them. In my shop we drive business in to keep seats turning. And we forecast accurately so that we don't have scheduling issues consistent enough that someone will say, "You know what? They are staffed well enough without me....i'm calling in".

Now, I am not saying that serving a customer without complaint is not a goal. I am saying it is not THE goal. It was in response to your statement of: "Managers job is getting the people fed WITHOUT COMPLAINT". That was a singular statement describing the job of a manager. If you misspoke, that is fine...just say so. But don't spend so much effort pretending that you didn't say it, or trying to sidestep my pointing out the absurdity of you saying it.

I will close asking you if you have not noticed that I mentioned that we do, and have always, provided health insurance to our staff as a benefit of employment. PLUS we double the tipped employee minimum wage as a starting point for our servers. PLUS we give our culinary staff the opportunity to work with chefs like Grady Phelps and Steven Pyle. Try hard as you want....if you want to insist that we are doing something wrong, I will insist that making loads of money for our owners AND employees obviously is so, so wrong.



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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All true but good managers are the exception and not the rule or you'd see more very successful restaurant chains out there. You must be using as your test group a field of one. Yours. I think you could do with a little education out side of the bubble.
reply to post by newcovenant
[more

Do you work in the service industry? What I described was what every manager does. IMO the "good" managers accomplish this while maintaining a work environment were everyone realizes the common goal and we work together to acheive success. The key to management is managing. Not repeating the same meaningless task and having everyone else do the same because it's your job. It's learning what motivates people and any good manager knows everyone is there for the money ( family, school whatever). So a good manager's job is too play mental chess and make everyone reasonably happy. Employees,stock holders and the customers. If you think you can intimidate or BS people to perform for you and acheive optimal results then you must be a rookie. Furthermore if you think a good manager is someone who is simply doing their job please tell me where do you work? I also consult and could save them a lot of money and time. Have you learned what was the most valuable asset to the company is? Hint. The employee. I think this is where BIG TEX was coming from. When you read about successful companies look at how they treat their employees. Maybe that's why you have a call off problem. I have a call in problem. Perhaps if you staffed with quality instead of quantity everybody would be happy. As for my bubble-this application of management relates to all companies-service oriented or not. For you to say that good managers keep the doors open is naive. Businesses don't close due to bad managers they close due to bad owners.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


I think you understand this, but i am mentioning for the sake of my friend NewCovenant:

Your employees ARE at work for the money. No one works for free. But.......it isn't the money that will motivate them day in and day out. If you want to motivate them, you have to engage them. Not all will be engaged as not all are cut out for the job. But the ones that are...empower them to make decisions. Train them. Make them good at what they do. When a human can spread their wings and be outstanding at something, they come alive.

That, and you can never order them into battle. You have to run into battle, calling for them to follow you. That is the only way they will ever respect you. Pulling the string is far, far more effective than pushing the string. That is what leadership is.

The two main pieces of advice I give all my new supervisory and management staff.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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Well said my brother!!!!!



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


Oh please. Many of them stay open due to location bad owners or not.
Did you take some kind of a correspondence course in restaurant management and now think you know everything? I certainly don't claim to know everything but aside from the occasional point for the most part I think you are talking out your derriere. Don't seem to acknowledge all establishments are different and unique situations, yet the exact same in many ways.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


I think you understand this, but i am mentioning for the sake of my friend NewCovenant:

Your employees ARE at work for the money. No one works for free. But.......it isn't the money that will motivate them day in and day out. If you want to motivate them, you have to engage them. Not all will be engaged as not all are cut out for the job. But the ones that are...empower them to make decisions. Train them. Make them good at what they do. When a human can spread their wings and be outstanding at something, they come alive.

That, and you can never order them into battle. You have to run into battle, calling for them to follow you. That is the only way they will ever respect you. Pulling the string is far, far more effective than pushing the string. That is what leadership is.

The two main pieces of advice I give all my new supervisory and management staff.



All that and health insurance and you will have excellent employees who are hardworking and loyal to you.

When a fork falls in the trash they will reach in and pull it out. They will not consider their aching back and lose that fork. This is how restaurants are as successful as they can be...one fork at a time.

Your employee has to respect you (because they are in a position to make or break you) and you get that by respecting them.

The best managers started as dishwashers, became busboys, waiters, bartenders and hosts before they managed a restaurant. Everybody knows that. Seriously, I just don't see where the big argument is here.

Restaurant Industry employees DESERVE employer covered affordable health care. Period.

End of discussion. I am going to depart this thread and take a course I found on the back of a pack of matches and become a plastic surgeon. Anybody need a facelift?

edit on 20-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 





Do you work in the service industry?



Of course I do.
Paradiso was my place on St John until I sold it and moved back to Florida.

Looking for a higher end food quality restaurant with air conditioning? Surprisingly, your options are limited on the Island of St. John. But when you head on over to Paradiso, you'll find that air conditioning is just one item on a long list of great features that will make you want to come back. Enjoy the beautiful shiny brass décor that is all a part of the authentic looking maritime theme so lavishly put forth by this elegant fine dining experience. Indeed, come here to enjoy a wide array of flavorful sensations as you sink your teeth into any dish from the extensive menu. Ranging from seafood to beef and from pasta to seared vegetables, the delicious food here is sure to amaze you.

Managed food and beverage service in the fairly well recognized Colony Hotel above as well as been a manger for Unique Restaurant Concepts, responsible for turning China Grill Management from the red to the black

With over 25 critically acclaimed restaurants worldwide, China Grill Management (CGM) and its affiliates continually create some of the most original and innovative dining hotspots in major cities across the globe.

and Dennis Max here in FL.

No one has had a greater impact on South Florida dining than Dennis Max and Burt Rapoport.


None of them slop shops.
edit on 20-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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I have never worked in restaurant so no idea. But their are less, who provide such type of facilities.
doctors excuses
edit on 25-10-2012 by Christindleo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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How about we stop pointing the finger at the bad people that honestly believe that health care should be a human right, and start pointing the finger at the doctor driving away in the Lexus that only got into medicine so he could have his large house and trophy wife? Wouldn't it be something if people that went to medical school actually wanted to, gasp, help other people again?



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by Dishonored
 


Do you want to spend 12 years of your life in school and working punishing hours to make less than 100,000 dollars a year?

Not to mention the money you had to borrow for school and then the malpractice insurance you have to take out of you 100 grand?



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Dishonored
 


Do you want to spend 12 years of your life in school and working punishing hours to make less than 100,000 dollars a year?

Not to mention the money you had to borrow for school and then the malpractice insurance you have to take out of you 100 grand?


You know how you became a doctor 100 years ago? You watched other doctors. Sure medicine wasn't as advanced as it is today, but the point is experience was more important than a piece of paper. And what did we get from it? People that actually wanted to work in medicine instead of people that become doctors simply because it's a guaranteed route to a Lexus. People that paved the way to the advanced medicine that we have today.

We don't have doctors today. There is an honest lack of people sincerely interested in healthcare because money is more important than the people. Why would they cure cancer when treating it makes them so much money? We live in a society that pays it's football players millions a year to sit on a bench and it's school teachers minimum wage... and now we're suddenly interested in education?

Healthcare is a basic human right that has become a profit driven industry.



posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by FreebirdGirl
 


Oh please. Many of them stay open due to location bad owners or not.
Did you take some kind of a correspondence course in restaurant management and now think you know everything? I certainly don't claim to know everything but aside from the occasional point for the most part I think you are talking out your derriere. Don't seem to acknowledge all establishments are different and unique situations, yet the exact same in many ways.


Location means crap if you develop a reputation for bad food and service.People have a choice you know. Reread my post I clearly said that productivity and profitability applies to all businesses. In the service industry everyday is a unique and different situation. So why acknowledge the obvious? However, be it hot dogs or caviar the guests expect the same results. Good service and Great food.Stockholders are no different they want results. I've been in this business over 35 years. I worked every position you could imagine. I started as a dish dog with Marriott worked my way to sous chef. I then went to culinary school and worked with three of the top master chefs in the country. I wanted more responsibility so I went back to school and refined my talents with accounting and business law. I've worked the hot dog stand to the 96 culinary olympic team in Atlanta. I had the privilege of meeting J.W. Marriott as well as wine tasting with the great Robert Mondavi. Nevertheless to this day I will walk in a kitchen and do whatever is neccessary. So my mangement style is based on my love of the industry, my experience and learning how to motivate people. You can't get that from a college course let alone a correspondence course. With all due respect what I say I say out of actual experience not arrogance. The majority of people are not lazy and want to be proud of their work. Ever read Fish ( a proven way to boost morale and improve results) ? It's a great tool for managers in any field. Easier read than Covey's books. Finally I don't know everything I make it my goal to learn something new every day.





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