Pondering Hope

"Abandon hope all ye who enter here". These are the words written above the gates of Hell in Dante's work. I always thought that meant that you took off your hope at the door and entered into a hopeless state. What if, that is not the idea. What if it means in order to leave, you must abandon hope.

Turns out that hope is extremely hard to let go of. It seems to be an innate state that we cling to like barnacles to a ships hull. Having hope is a failure to live now, since hope implies a future. A time when something will occur to alter the now.

Freedom is about attachments right? Ridding ourselves? Hope is an attachment, a powerful one. Can you imagine letting go of yours? Setting it down and walking away? If you do, what are you left with? Can we even live without hope, do we want to? Is being without hope the same as being without expectations?

What say you ATS? These are some thoughts I have been mulling over...........

reply to post by Iamschist


Lack of hope leads to despair.
Hope is one of those things that keeps people from slipping into deep depressions and may very well be a genetic survival instinct to keep the mind from giving up and dying.

love the Avatar!

Very well said. Thanks for sharing.

Cannot help but be reminded of the story below. It is not the original, it is a story of many outfits, but the message is maintained.

A monk and his novice were walking through the forest. They come to a stream. On the bank there was a beautifully dressed woman, crying. The monks asked her what was the matter. “I am on my way to a wedding. I have to cross the stream to get there, but the bridge has been washed away. I was searching for a place to cross where I wouldn’t ruin the dress, but I can’t find one and if I don’t make it across soon, I will be late.”

Without a word, the elder monk scooped her into his arms, waded across the stream, and deposited her on the other side. Ignoring her thanks, he waded back and the two monks resume their walk. They continued on their journey, but the younger monk was agitated and obviously had something on his mind. The elder monk stopped and asked him what was the matter.

“Elder, I am confused. Our vows prohibit us from fleshly contact with women, yet you embraced that woman in your arms. How can this be?” The elder monk eyed his novice with kindly concern. “Novice,” he asked, “I left her on the bank of the stream. Why do you still carry her?”

reply to post by Darkblade71


Yes I can see that, what if you didn't go on to despair, but stopped after abandoning hope? What if by clinging to hope we are somehow limiting ourselves?

reply to post by usernamehere


hahaha, I like that story.

There are many stories and koans in Zen about attachments.

reply to post by Iamschist


You mean to switch directions?
Perhaps hope is the middle ground, despair at one end, and nirvana at the other.
To keep balanced if this is the case.
But it isn't, I had to go look up the definition of hope, hope is to expect an outcome.
If you expect nothing,then there is nothing to hope for.
You would just allow whatever to occur and be indifferent to it.
It is confusing me though, my head is not able to think deep thoughts this evening......

reply to post by usernamehere


Love that story!

That's awesome!

reply to post by Darkblade71


It does get confusing. I am thinking about this tonight because my personal life has imploded. There is really no hope, yet I find myself "Hoping against hope" as they say. Looking for that sign that all will be as it was. At some point in order to move on, I will have to give up hope. That led me to see that hope is not always a positive, but a kind of trap. It occurred to me then that Dante might have been trying to tell us something. As long as we cling to hope, it can keep us in hell.

reply to post by Iamschist


Ok I gotcha!

That is something I have been through, to give up hope and to walk away. It is very hard to do, but once one does, and sees from outside of the situation they were in before, it opens up a new hope for a new future.
It is not easy to let go, but sometimes, it is the only way to move forward without being dragged down.

reply to post by Iamschist


IF there is no hope...

Then what else is there to live for but to try to improve the lives of others?

Shall we live for ourselves knowing full well that we can't take anything we earn with us?

I think not

I have a miniscule amount of hope that keeps me from slitting my wrists, so I would agree that it is probably related to survival. But I also think hope is a type of delusion, because when things are bad, I keep telling myself that things will have to get better, right? But in truth, they only get worse.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Iamschist

 

IF there is no hope...

Then what else is there to live for but to try to improve the lives of others?

Shall we live for ourselves knowing full well that we can't take anything we earn with us?

I think not

Can you give that which you do not possess? I am just asking. Can we improve the lives of others, or can we just change things a bit?

Originally posted by Iamschist

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Iamschist

 

IF there is no hope...

Then what else is there to live for but to try to improve the lives of others?

Shall we live for ourselves knowing full well that we can't take anything we earn with us?

I think not

Can you give that which you do not possess? I am just asking. Can we improve the lives of others, or can we just change things a bit?

You can improve the lives of others with a simple smile my friend...

It takes very little... even a smile has a ripple effect

Everyone changes lives every single day of their lives, even though they don't realize it...

Even a smile can save a life, because it show others that someone cares

Imagine the possibilities if a smile has such power

Originally posted by MrUncreated
I have a miniscule amount of hope that keeps me from slitting my wrists, so I would agree that it is probably related to survival. But I also think hope is a type of delusion, because when things are bad, I keep telling myself that things will have to get better, right? But in truth, they only get worse.

edit on 8-10-2012 by MrUncreated because: (no reason given)

Perhaps it is like ego, we need it to survive, but we must always be aware of the dangers it holds. To walk in despair cannot be right either, can it? Maybe the truth is in between. Not holding to one or the other

reply to post by Akragon


I agree with you You are a peddler of hope and certainly it does make us feel better, that can be a kind of ostrich deal yes? Like whistling in the dark?

Originally posted by Iamschist


It does get confusing. I am thinking about this tonight because my personal life has imploded. There is really no hope, yet I find myself "Hoping against hope" as they say. Looking for that sign that all will be as it was. At some point in order to move on, I will have to give up hope. That led me to see that hope is not always a positive, but a kind of trap. It occurred to me then that Dante might have been trying to tell us something. As long as we cling to hope, it can keep us in hell.

I dont know.

I know we can hope for the best, but sometimes that's not enough. When I lived in my car, or when I lost my children, I was in a dark place. Never once did I give up. Even when all seemed lost, I still held out. Guess what? it took years, but I found peace. Even if ALL was taken away again, I know if I can and have fought odds, that most would have given up on, That trying and hoping, is better then giving up. Stay strong Iamschist..............


Hope isnt a deception, just the in-between, of an outcome that is out of your control.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Iamschist


It does get confusing. I am thinking about this tonight because my personal life has imploded. There is really no hope, yet I find myself "Hoping against hope" as they say. Looking for that sign that all will be as it was. At some point in order to move on, I will have to give up hope. That led me to see that hope is not always a positive, but a kind of trap. It occurred to me then that Dante might have been trying to tell us something. As long as we cling to hope, it can keep us in hell.

I dont know.

I know we can hope for the best, but sometimes that's not enough. When I lived in my car, or when I lost my children, I was in a dark place. Never once did I give up. Even when all seemed lost, I still held out. Guess what? it took years, but I found peace. Even if ALL was taken away again, I know if I can and have fought odds, that most would have given up on, That trying and hoping, is better then giving up. Stay strong Iamschist..............


Hope isnt a deception, just the in-between, of an outcome that is out of your control.

Beautifully put and I thank you for your kind words. I am comforted

I still think there is value in examining things we believe from different perspectives. My vision is dark I admit.

Wishing for something to happen and having hope for the future are not the same thing. Wishing sucks...

reply to post by Iamschist


Everyone self reflects, at the dark end of the pool of life.

No one can say, that they haven't. When you can admit, that this is the place you are in, you are a few steps away from the surface. Its a daily struggle, never forget it. Never forget how special, you are. Just something Ive learned, in my short time, here on Earth.

reply to post by Iamschist
This is hopeless!, yes a very good point that is worth some awareness from us all. Yes, we must let go of hope if we seriously want to discover the truth. But was it not hope that brought us to that point in the first place? If there was no hope in the venture would we in embark? So hope or even faith (not blind faith) is like a boat that delivers us to the place where it is not needed anymore . We must step out of the boat and go forward in to the land where hope is of no use, if not we will never leave the river.