No such thing as Nothing says Gabriele Veneziano

Gabriele Veneziano, is a theoretical physicist and one of the pioneers of string theory. He has now come up with a theory that the Big Bang did not come from nothing. I just watched Through the Wormhole S3E5 'What is Nothing?'

Will somebody please tell me why there is even a need for a theory such as this? This episode starts out with physicists explaining the state of nothingness. It offended my common sense to the point where I almost stopped watching. One guy attached a vacuum pump to a 50 gallon drum until the drum collapsed. He then claimed that nothingness had something to do with it (though IMO it made no sense at all).

Gabriele Veneziano's theory was the last item in this show. I am SO glad I watched the whole thing.

reply to post by jiggerj

One guy attached a vacuum pump to a 50 gallon drum until the drum collapsed. He then claimed that nothingness had something to do with it (though IMO it made no sense at all).

Yup that was a very poorly selected example. At best it shows the power of differential pressures and begins to explain the concept of vacuum...

reply to post by jiggerj


Super-symmetry and the sudden decay of energy states is all made into parable in the Bible. The entire Bible is a parable and allegory of this process of creation, rising and falling and immersion into the flow of changing states. collapsing wave function and indeterminate probability is all locked into the parable. Central to the overall parable is baptism into 6 states of being. Earth, Air, Water, Fire and Spirit. You exist here in this image of Creation, but your angel faces God at all times. What you bind here is bound in heaven. What you loose here is loosed in Heaven. Take what I just wrote about binding and loosing compared to baptism, which is immersion below to raise to new life above and you can then show how Word (Information) is the wave of creation.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Matthew 18

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

If two agree here, symmetry happens and the wave is cancelled. Hidden within the macro is the micro.

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Earlier, when I said that our baptism is immersion into the wave of creation in an image, I was referring to information as energy. See this Video on the Holographic nature of our reality by Scientist Leonard Susskind. IN John 1, the Word is mentioned as Christ that divides the light from the darkness. See who this Word / Wave of the Trinity of light is.

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

2 Peter 3:12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

1 Corinthians 15:

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

WE ARE CREATED INSIDE AN IMAGE

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

THAT IMAGE IS TIME, SPACE MATTER AND ENERGY

Genesis 1:1

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

See the article linked in my signature on a theory of existence. You won't be sorry.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Take what I just wrote about binding and loosing compared to baptism...

You do know that the church now considers baptism as only an initiation into the Catholic religion, right?

Central to the overall parable is baptism into 6 states of being. Earth, Air, Water, Fire and Spirit.

That's five.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Take what I just wrote about binding and loosing compared to baptism...

You do know that the church now considers baptism as only an initiation into the Catholic religion, right?

Central to the overall parable is baptism into 6 states of being. Earth, Air, Water, Fire and Spirit.

That's five.

Your view of baptism is very narrow. Not all believers are Catholic and there is a wide variety of theological views on the significance of what Baptism represents, namely, repentance. If you were to go to the book, The Shepherd of Hermas, the true meaning of Baptism is revealed. Our presence in the material world as a soul occupying a material body of water is our repentance and rising to new life by the experience. As you point out, initiation is a similar mindset to what is actually happening as we rise against entropy.

As for five, you forget the title of your OP. Nothing is a state of being. In the material world, matter is the shell that information constructs as a symbol for enlightening our own information. Before I wrote my first book, it was nothing. The conceptualization of information was then brought into symbolic form and the material world by the embodiment of Word in matter. The five baptisms of information in the material world listed in the Bible lead to the final state where spirit and matter are transcended from both.

Earth - We are planted into the Garden. We are not rooted in the soil like plants or in a fixed domain like fish. Instead, we can occupy all domains. This autonomy requires that we overcome these domains by hardships. The wilderness we occupy was provided to allow our growth by experience.

Air - We are given the Word of God as a guide to the wilderness. This word is also the language we learn and master. Meaning ultimately comes when we decipher the inner symbols of nature and overcome our ignorance and pride of the outer world. Meaning springs from the root, just like a plant.

Water - We are baptized into the Water (Immersion into Reality). The water cleanses the temple (body). The temple is where the sacrifice is made. This temple houses the spirit of God, along with our soul. We are to overcome as we are born again. "You must be born again." Plants die and the seed perpetuates to the next generation. Producing fruit ensures seed for the next crop.



Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.


Fire - We are finally baptized by Trials. The Flaming Sword of God cuts away pride and protects the tree of life. The tree of life is DNA. We light the fire we burn by. We can also put out the fire with the water.

Spirit - After overcoming the first four baptisms, we are then baptized by the Spirit of God. Jesus is necessary for us to be marked by the spirit for salvation from the Fire. The water and blood of Christ brings salvation from the corruption of the elements.

Like the video shows, particles seek differing states and fall lower from a source. The thing that rises is the conservation of information. Entropy affects both information and energy. Life can rise or sink. Not being for God is being against. We bind or loose our entire existence here in Creation. I will speak for myself that I choose to see the beauty and elegance in the design and love God for providing a shell for the two things that I can do to produce my world. I can think and move only. God provides the rest.

Can you name anything that you do that does not involve thought and movement to produce your world? You can't. It's all done for you. Your hair grows, the sun shines, your eyes see and entropy will bring you to death. You can only think and move between the time you are born and the time you die. The one thing you have control over is the quality of your thought. If that thought does not demand a source, then that thought is doomed to fall instead of rise back to the source from which it comes.

Faith allows vision of what is unseen. Can you see love? Only the abstract is real. The concrete is the shell it occupies. In reality, what is gained from matter (nothing) is truly something.

reply to post by jiggerj
It often strikes me that material and theoretical scientists completely miss the absurdity of their positions on the origins of the Universe.

To Veneziano (link), it's ridiculous to believe that the Big Bang was the beginning of Time or Space. He considers it more likely that the Universe has always existed. As we know, this is not a consensus idea. Cosmologists consider the Big Bang Theory as the more probable.

One side says the universe was always here and the other says it came from nothing.

Both represent paradoxes and herein lies the irony and absurdity (of whatever side) in seeking to take the intellectual or theoretical high ground.

It's remarkable that we are here to experience the universe and consider its origins and that of life itself. Simply being here means that one of these explanations must be the right one.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Can you name anything that you do that does not involve thought and movement to produce your world? You can't. It's all done for you. Your hair grows, the sun shines, your eyes see and entropy will bring you to death. You can only think and move between the time you are born and the time you die.

See! This is where religious people get so caught up in their twisted beliefs that they cannot see the extreme contradictions they speak of. You are 100% right. It is all done for us. It's called nature and evolution.

And here you are a MILLION PERCENT RIGHT: You can only think and move between the time you are born and the time you die. We cannot move and think before we are born or after we die.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Both represent paradoxes

Why is the realm of infinite and eternal somethingness a paradox? Throughout all of our lives we say and hear, "You can't get something from nothing." We know this. We KNOW this! So, why don't most physicists know it?

Example: Let's time travel back to before the Big Bang, to when this Nothingness is supposed to have existed. We brought with us a barrel. In the barrel is a square foot block of cement. We take the block out of the barrel. Now, what filled in the square foot of space the block occupied in the barrel? Well, SOMETHING had to pour into the barrel to fill in that space. We can't say Nothing did it. 'Nothing' has no qualities, so it can't fill in anything.

Space, itself, has to be something, because 'Nothing' has no length, height, or depth. It is not a fluid, a gas, hot or cold, or anything else. You can't move your arms around in nothing.

If there could be such a thing as a space with nothing in it, then we wouldn't be able to remove the block from inside the barrel. "Nothing" wouldn't seep under the block when we try to lift it out. So, this 'Nothingness' would be the hardest substance in the universe - immovable, impenetrable, unyielding. Not only the hardest substance, but the ONLY substance, seeing as we can't put something into nothing, or take something out of nothing.

So, at least in my way of thinking there's no paradox. This realm of somethingness exists simply because a state of absolute nothing cannot ever exist.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by jiggerj

 

It often strikes me that material and theoretical scientists completely miss the absurdity of their positions on the origins of the Universe.

To Veneziano (link), it's ridiculous to believe that the Big Bang was the beginning of Time or Space. He considers it more likely that the Universe has always existed. As we know, this is not a consensus idea. Cosmologists consider the Big Bang Theory as the more probable.

One side says the universe was always here and the other says it came from nothing.

Both represent paradoxes and herein lies the irony and absurdity (of whatever side) in seeking to take the intellectual or theoretical high ground.

It's remarkable that we are here to experience the universe and consider its origins and that of life itself. Simply being here means that one of these explanations must be the right one.

I agree, to suggest there is a human being that can convincingly attribute factual data, to the creation of the universe, is absurd and arrogant. the chasm between theory and reality is so vast, that it reduces such, to be merely speculative at best.

reply to post by Kandinsky

One side says the universe was always here and the other says it came from nothing.

And both can be accomodated by the big bang theory. Big bang theory as defined by current consensus states that the universe came from an extremely hot and dense state which expanded. Thats it, nothing more, nothing less. There is a singularity beyond this point, where our equations break down. So even tough there are various hypotheses, some stating that the universe existed eternally, some stating that the spacetime began in this singularity, some say that it began from nothing, some say it came from something, nothing is proven.

imho if you are the darling of theoretical physics and your getting older, less cute, your ideas are meh. You make a controversial video, stir up some stuff and viola grant money!!! Yay!! Sorry my cynicism is showing.

I do love how passionate you are about nothing OP I agree with what you said, can't get something from nothing..

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Can you name anything that you do that does not involve thought and movement to produce your world? You can't. It's all done for you. Your hair grows, the sun shines, your eyes see and entropy will bring you to death. You can only think and move between the time you are born and the time you die.

See! This is where religious people get so caught up in their twisted beliefs that they cannot see the extreme contradictions they speak of. You are 100% right. It is all done for us. It's called nature and evolution.

And here you are a MILLION PERCENT RIGHT: You can only think and move between the time you are born and the time you die. We cannot move and think before we are born or after we die.

edit on 10/7/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/7/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

According to the Bible, the body is the temple that holds the Spirit and Soul. There is a veil that keeps us from seeing past the now of the material world. To say that we cannot see what came before only speaks to the fact that we are veiled. To say that we do not see what comes after death is again speaking to the same blindness by design. This is the nature of time and perspective by frame of reference.

We are locked into seeing the slice of now that we occupy in time because we are in the 3rd Dimension seeing time as a slice of the fourth. We can conceptualize what comes before and after now, but only limited to what the veil allows. Any being that exists above this veil would see beyond the past and present as one thing, yet could also determine the future if collapsing wave function is is parallel to collapsing memory locations from information. Since the Bible clearly states that creation is based on Word (Information), then we can easily draw the parallel from our own creations of time, space, matter and energy in the form of the computer.

Think about it. How does the user of a game collapse past, present and future from the memory of the hard drive? Are we extra-dimensional from the perspective of the avatar in the game we command? Yes. This is a good metaphor for how the Bible describes our own deterministic future. We play a level of the game over and over again until it is mastered. Until them, it masters us. The fact that the game is the same each time, yet different by our user's perspective, is entirely demonstrated by our own Virtual Realities. God said it first.

Genesis 1

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.



I cannot say I agree with your premise. The only contradictions here come from denying that the Bible and reality match each other.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Genesis 1 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Another flaw in the bible. If god created mankind in his own image (and likeness), then god has a nose. Why? Does he need to breath? If he needs to breath, then he can suffocate. If he needs to breath, then he has lungs. If he has lungs, then he has inner organs. If he has inner organs, he needs to eat to keep them healthy. If he doesn't eat, he will starve to death. Our image cannot be the image of a god.

Please don't say that god has a nose, but doesn't need it. That would be just foolish.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

And both can be accomodated by the big bang theory. Big bang theory as defined by current consensus states that the universe came from an extremely hot and dense state which expanded.

Expanded into what? Nothing? This theory cannot be accommodated. There had to have been a somethingness of space for the universe to expand into.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
According to the Bible

Yeah, there's your problem.

Interesting vid OP, I'll be sure to check this out later on this evening.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Expanded into what? Nothing? This theory cannot be accommodated. There had to have been a somethingness of space for the universe to expand into.

Nope, it is an intristic expansion of all space, the universe is not expanding into a preexisting space.

The metric expansion of space is the increase of the distance between two distant parts of the universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion — that is, it is defined by the relative separation of parts of the universe and not by motion "outward" into preexisting space as, for example, an explosion of matter. The universe is not expanding "into" anything.

en.wikipedia.org...

You had 18 page thread on this very topic, surely someone explained this to you..

Originally posted by Maslo

The metric expansion of space is the increase of the distance between two distant parts of the universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion — that is, it is defined by the relative separation of parts of the universe and not by motion "outward" into preexisting space as, for example, an explosion of matter. The universe is not expanding "into" anything.

semantics,,.,.,.and word games

that is saying,,, the universe did not expand outwardly,,,,,,
but that the parts of the universe that are now furthest away from each other in distance,, were once closer.,.,.,.
so it grew,,,,, but was always the same size,,,, because if it changed total size from smaller to larger,,,,, it would have had to have expanded into an existing area..... because if it changed total size from smaller to larger,,,, it would have had to have changed total size from smaller to larger,,

these physicists are idiots ,,,, instead of saying,,, we dont know completely what were talking about,,,,, they say,,,,, this is what we can think happened,,, accoding to our model of what we think happened, , your wrong,,, no no no that cant be possibly right because dont you know the universe didnt expand into existing space,, it says so write in our model,,,,,, dont you know that the universe is everything that has ever existed,,, it says so right in the deffiniton we made up.

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by jiggerj

Expanded into what? Nothing? This theory cannot be accommodated. There had to have been a somethingness of space for the universe to expand into.

Nope, it is an intristic expansion of all space, the universe is not expanding into a preexisting space.

The metric expansion of space is the increase of the distance between two distant parts of the universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion — that is, it is defined by the relative separation of parts of the universe and not by motion "outward" into preexisting space as, for example, an explosion of matter. The universe is not expanding "into" anything.

en.wikipedia.org...

You had 18 page thread on this very topic, surely someone explained this to you..

Apparently the garbage you just spewed was totally illogical back then, too. And, SOME physicists are just starting to come forward with the more logical theory on this.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

semantics,,.,.,.and word games

that is saying,,, the universe did not expand outwardly,,,,,,
but that the parts of the universe that are now furthest away from each other in distance,, were once closer.,.,.,.
so it grew,,,,, but was always the same size,,,, because if it changed total size from smaller to larger,,,,, it would have had to have expanded into an existing area..... because if it changed total size from smaller to larger,,,, it would have had to have changed total size from smaller to larger,,

these physicists are idiots ,,,, instead of saying,,, we dont know completely what were talking about,,,,, they say,,,,, this is what we can think happened,,, accoding to our model of what we think happened, , your wrong,,, no no no that cant be possibly right because dont you know the universe didnt expand into existing space,, it says so write in our model,,,,,, dont you know that the universe is everything that has ever existed,,, it says so right in the deffiniton we made up.

Yay, Imafungi! Don't you sometimes feel like we shouldn't even have to explain this stuff? Why can't EVERYONE see the blatant wrongness of this expansion-slash-nonexpansion?

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Take what I just wrote about binding and loosing compared to baptism...

You do know that the church now considers baptism as only an initiation into the Catholic religion, right?

Central to the overall parable is baptism into 6 states of being. Earth, Air, Water, Fire and Spirit.

That's five.

What church is that.,,,?