New Paul Ryan video - 30% of Americans want "welfare state" and reject the American dream.

WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney and his running mate, Paul Ryan, share a similarly dim view of a very large portion of Americans, according to previously unreported remarks by Ryan. Both believe that many of their fellow citizens are dependent on government and have no motivation to improve their lives -- but they disagree over the precise number.

Romney's estimate, famously, is 47 percent. For Ryan, it's 30 percent.

"Seventy percent of Americans want the American dream. They believe in the American idea. Only 30 percent want their welfare state," Ryan said. "Before too long, we could become a society where the net majority of Americans are takers, not makers."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

reply to post by longlostbrother


Just because some people want equity doesn't make them evil. The present tendency in our society is to screw thy neighbor so you can get ahead. Talk them into buying something they don't need and can't afford so they are in debt as much as you. This is the present form of Capitalism in our country at it's finest, not socialism. I don't believe in Welfare, except for those who can't work or find work because they exported the jobs. Get the jobs back and change the attitude of the citizens. Being able to buy anything you want at cheap prices doesn't work if a third of the people aren't working at a livable wage. Within years the debt of the nation will go up by many trillion dollars. This is evident, a consumer based society cannot work.

He's absolutely right, although it's pure guessing on the actual percentage. The problem is that percentage is rising and will soon be the majority.

'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'

That time is apparently upon us and the Democrats are using it as a campaign slogan.

Obamaphones for everyone!

Whether it's the 47% against the 53% - or the 30% against the 70%, it's CLEAR this Romney/Ryan ticket wants to UNITE the people, not DIVIDE them!

Don't you just LOVE being categorized into one percentage or the other? It reduces our humanity to a commodity, that can be shuffled and manipulated and USED to further their agenda.

Ain't politics grand?

Oh, and Mr. Ryan, just because someone is on Welfare, doesn't mean they WANT to be. You freaking idiot!

I dont get why this is supposed to be a "gotcha!" moment. Same with the Romney statement.

If the percentages are right is it supposed to turn that 30% off? So then why does it turn that 30% off? Because they are upset for being what they are? Because Romney/Ryan allegedly threaten to end the programs that 30% are using?

Is it "gotcha!" because they are wrong or is it "gotcha!" because they are right?

Im not voting for either so I have no dog in this fight. Just curious as to the mentality behind the "gotcha!" angle.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes! I want to know who did the polling on that stat? How did he arrive at the magic number of thirty%? Really.....because my guess would be much, much lower than 30%.

But hey, it sounds good when you are playing to your base. That comment will do little to win over independents or get moderate dems to switch party. If I was the GOP stragetist I would tell Ryan and Romney to stop all this bunk science stastical mumbo jumbo rally up the base crap.....they got their base on lock and the polling numbers show it. If I were in the GOP camp I'd be telling them to go for the throat of the independents and the moderate dems, they are down to the wire, they need to get those middle of the road voters on their side....they need to find out what issues are important to that voting block and they need to run with it for all they got.....getting the swing voters is where their focus should be and I just do not think this this sort of talk is gonna make people swing in their favor.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I dont get why this is supposed to be a "gotcha!" moment. Same with the Romney statement.

If the percentages are right is it supposed to turn that 30% off? So then why does it turn that 30% off?

IF 30% of the people are on welfare in an economic depression, Ryan is saying that they WANT to be on welfare. He's suggesting (as did Romney) that people who are getting aid from the government are doing so because they're lazy, don't want to work and PREFER sitting back, collecting food stamps and living off other people's hard earned money.

There was a time in my life that I received SSI for a while. I couldn't WAIT to get off of it and completely support myself, which I did as soon as I possibly could. If a presidential candidate had suggested that I was receiving help because I LIKED being a victim or wanted a "welfare state", I would have been highly offended.

Do you get it now?

Yet Romney/Ryan wants to increase spending on the military? Total hypocritical war mongering slugs.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I am of the same point of view as you...I don't have a dog in this fight...not participating in the dog and pony show (elephant and donkey?).

I think the "gotcha" is that Romney/Ryan have accused the POTUS of divisionist politics and propaganda and they are very much guilty of the same tactics. Anytime you isolate a segment of the population and call them out, you have somehow diminished them in the eyes of others. I disagree with both parties for doing this.

First and foremost, we are ALL citizens of the USA. Some of us have been hurt in the modern approach to economics. Some have been left behind in technology and education. Is that the people's fault? Maybe in some cases...maybe not. Education and technology training can be expensive. If you were just plugging by and suddenly your job is eliminated or shipped overseas...then what? You can't afford to go back and re-learn...so you either get on the dole of living assistance or get Gov aid for education...either way, you are turning to your Ole Uncle Sam for either a handout or a hand up. Completely in how you look at it.

I have to agree that we do have some lazy ass people that seem to be fine with "less" as long as they can sit on their asses, is it 30%? I doubt it.. The "less" in this case being whatever the Gov can hand out...and they will take that and be happy to live a reduced life. Most of us are not that way. I think most want the nice things and most want to make their own way doing something they love doing. Sadly, sometimes doing what you love doing isn't going to cut it. I think we all hope that we can provide a life that allows the next generation (our children) to do a little bit better than we did...I think that is human nature...or parental instinct if you will.

Romney and Ryan trying to appeal to the "hard workers" by minimizing the poor is not a good strategy. Some poor folks I know work their asses off and just never got a break or a chance. It's not right to minimalize them. My philosophy is get Gov regulations and taxes out of the way and allow people to do their best...whatever that may be.

Rep. Paul Ryan Received Social Security Benefits

Paul Ryan is total hypocritical trash. He is a product of the welfare state.

When his lawyer father died young, sadly, the high-school aged Ryan received Social Security survivor benefits. But they didn’t go directly to supporting his family; by his own account, he banked them for college. He went to Miami University of Ohio, paying twice as much tuition as an Ohio resident would have; the in-state University of Wisconsin system (which I attended) apparently wasn’t good enough for Ryan. After his government-subsidized out-of-state education, the pride of Janesville left college and went to work for government, where he’s spent his entire career, first serving Republican legislators and then in his own

www.salon.com...

I forgot everyone has been able to express their opinions on government spending and having a say in how tax payer money is distributed around. Silly me.

You could argue we voted the President in to do what we want. Politics don't work that way sadly.

Maybe a decade long war on an enemy that doesn't truly exist has finally taken its toll. Maybe things will get better now that we have learned our lesson...

Oh wait, Romney wants an offensive, as well as defensive military force. Well how are either sides of the military going to be funded with a debt of over 16 trillion dollars? I get the feeling the government has been playing the economy like wall street has and betting money over a wide range of "investments".

And like Wall Street, the government has failed horribly and now can't cover its losses. So basically everyone is going to have to "pay their fair share" and lets work on the debt. Go America!

Sorry Obama. Sorry Romney. It isn't my debt, kindly piss off and let me do my own thing. You have made your bed.

People can't find decent paying jobs these days without signing their lives off to a large company who looks at their employees as cannon fodder. Keep them until you gotta pay into their retirements, them kindly boot them to the curb and hire in new fresh meat.

With unemployment numbers as they are, there are always people ready to work, its a vicious cycle I hope ends soon.

Welfare is a good thing, problem is it has become a necessity these days.

The American Dream died long ago when your average joe could not start up a small business and compete with huge corporations that sprouted up all over the country. Why invest in the little guy when you can invest for a higher profit in the bigger companies? Looking at you Walmart

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

IF 30% of the people are on welfare in an economic depression, Ryan is saying that they WANT to be on welfare. He's suggesting (as did Romney) that people who are getting aid from the government are doing so because they're lazy, don't want to work and PREFER sitting back, collecting food stamps and living off other people's hard earned money.

So it's about emotion not economics?

Is that really what the election process is about, not having feelings hurt?

Does anyone know what the actual number of life-long dependents is?

Can it be addressed or discussed without feelings getting hurt?

I have extended family who do prefer sitting back. Have been doing it for generations. Has nothing to do with Obama or Romney. If there is a handout to be had they'll find a way to get it. How many more of them are out there?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

I have extended family who do prefer sitting back. Have been doing it for generations. Has nothing to do with Obama or Romney. If there is a handout to be had they'll find a way to get it. How many more of them are out there?

As over 90% of the labour force is working, not many.

This just goes hand in hand with Romneys 47% remark.
But it looks like they failed to coordinate the % number they were going to be using.
That being said .. many on welfare don't want to be on it.
But also ... there ARE welfare queens and those who want the gov't to support them.
I have no idea what the true percentage of those people are ...
I'm thinking that Ryan and Romney don't know either.
This is just politicians tossing out percentages and numbers to try to make it
look like they know what they are talking about. Epic fail.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I have extended family who do prefer sitting back. Have been doing it for generations. Has nothing to do with Obama or Romney. If there is a handout to be had they'll find a way to get it. How many more of them are out there?

I don't know if a study has ever been done on 'lazy americans'.
Those who are welfare queens .. the ones that think they are entitled to
a free living at the expense of taxpayers.

They are definately out there. And probably more than we think there are ...
But as for a definitive study ... I'm googling but can't find one ....

Originally posted by BritofTexas

As over 90% of the labour force is working, not many.

Right!

So why does something so insignificant wield so much clout on both the side coming down on it and the side asking for more?

"It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

LINK

Originally posted by FlyersFan

They are definately out there. And probably more than we think there are ...
But as for a definitive study ... I'm googling but can't find one ....

I imagine it's nearly impossible to quantify the way qualifications change all the time, the way people are booted off or fail to qualify one day then jump right back on the next.

There doesnt appear to be any constant other than the person receiving and that's all supposed to be confidential.

The whole world saw Ol' Dirty Bastard take a limo to collect his check.



Of the few who abuse I'm sure even fewer actually "live it up" or emulate the mythical "welfare queen" so I'm not concerned with such rare cases.

What I am curious about is how many collect voluntarily. For how many is it equal to or greater than to collect rather than work?

CEO's play these loophole games all the time to their benefit and it usually garners quite a response.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

So why does something so insignificant wield so much clout on both the side coming down on it and the side asking for more?

Because the vast majority of the benefits go to:-
The Retired.
The Disabled.
The Working Poor.

They have voting rights too.

If a so called "Welfare Queen" is carrying a Coach handbag, she didn't buy it with Food Stamps.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
This just goes hand in hand with Romneys 47% remark.
But it looks like they failed to coordinate the % number they were going to be using.

That being said .. many on welfare don't want to be on it.
But also ... there ARE welfare queens and those who want the gov't to support them.
I have no idea what the true percentage of those people are ...
I'm thinking that Ryan and Romney don't know either.
This is just politicians tossing out percentages and numbers to try to make it
look like they know what they are talking about. Epic fail.

Because 89% of all statistics are made up by the speaker/poster in political conversations.

And yes...I just made that up.