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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
well then, cheers to snopes for providing it, boooo to you for not understanding it.
do tell, as muslims join "health care ministries", what is preventing them from claiming an "exemption" at that point ??
but, you said that wasn't true, so which is it ??
they can be exempt on religious grounds
Originally posted by Honor93
...and no, not "any person can join a HCM" ... that is a lie.
in general, muslim, is not a "faith", it is the adjective used to describe persons who practice a particular religious "faith". just like the term "jew" is not a "faith" either.
actually, most American muslims DO qualify as many of them aren't old enough to claim SS benefits. their payments may be "withdrawn" via payroll but that doesn't mean they collect said benefits.
and, btw, collecting SS benefits due to any reason other than retirement, doesn't nullify their exemption. (ie ... disability, suplemental, dependant, blah, blah, blah)
no one claimed ... "A Muslim would not be exempt from Obama care simply because they are a Muslim", but nice of you to assume such.
simply because it is not true.
because ANY person/group can join a Health Care Ministry
not anyone can join an HCM, although, many who do not will qualify anyway under the RCE code.
ANYONE who qualifies for the Religious Conscience Exemption in the IRS code (which has a relatively strict set of guidelines to qualify for this exemption) can also possibly join an HCM and be exempt from Obamacare.
Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
then, you shouldn't have said this ...simply because it is not true.
because ANY person/group can join a Health Care Ministry
in an abbreviated world, perhaps, but you did say it and it's quoted above.
because ANY person/group can join a Health Care Ministry, provided the groups religious beliefs have historically fallen under the concept of the "Religious Conscience Exemption".
as in, a NEW group cannot qualify under existing code, [color=amber]new code must accompany the new exemption, hence HCMs.
The Religious Conscience Exemption in the IRS is only one of the criteria (albeit a major one) a group must meet to qualify for the Health Care Ministry provision of Obamacare.
and today, your statement is correct ... however ... these deciding factors have yet to be decided, don't they ?
Simply "Being Muslim" does not exempt them.
and this applies to the "title", how exactly ??
PLUS there are other non-muslim groups that can qualify to be exempt.
Originally posted by Honor93
yes, i left that part out on purpose.
it doesn't negate your previous comment (preceding the comma) or does it prove to be true either.
psssst ... you typed it with a comma, i didn't add one.
you can claim the title is misleading and i would agree.
however, i am not addressing the title, solely, rather the info included in the OP.
(which, btw, specifically indicates the "group" aspect of some do, some don't qualify)
tis a shame that you seem to cling on to a "concept" (the title) that is less than complete.
then again, most religious types do that daily, so i am not surprised.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
and today, your statement is correct ... however ... these deciding factors have yet to be decided, don't they ?
"Simply "Being Muslim" does not exempt them.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
and this applies to the "title", how exactly ??
PLUS there are other non-muslim groups that can qualify to be exempt.
no one claimed ... "A Muslim would not be exempt from Obama care simply because they are a Muslim", but nice of you to assume such.
so, since Mennonites already qualify for the exemption, i guess it would be equally wrong to say "Christians are exempt from Obamacare" too, right ????
(cause not "all" of them are )
good, cause you're not ... you are in good company all over this nation.
but I don't feel I'm alone in believing this way
some battles are worthy the effort, others, not so much.
Anyway, there's no reason to fight. People will believe what they want to, and some will refuse to believe anything, no matter the evidence, or proof. Life is too short though.
no offense intended here, but you are either confused or deluded, you decide.
I am, however, a rather strict constitutionalist, and the first amendment of the bill of rights protects religions from the government prohibiting free expression of religion - i.e., basically the government can't pass a law the stops a religion from doing its thing.
i would love to see a link that proves the above comment, otherwise i call BS.
but I think the constitution DOES require the opt-out.
Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
I'm saying this because snopes actually provided a copy of the legislation for me to read -- that's something the OP did NOT do.
So it is the OP who wants me to blindly believe something just because he says so, NOT snopes.
edit on 10/4/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)
"do you happen to have any real evidence / real reporting on this claim? If so, please put up a link"
Originally posted by Honor93
i would love to see a link that proves the above comment, otherwise i call BS.
but I think the constitution DOES require the opt-out.
Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Originally posted by jimmiec
Nancy Pelosi's district received 20% of the waivers for Obamacare. Looks like cronyism to me. Here is a link to the facts.
theweek.com...
This means that government CAN NOT pass laws which prohibit a religious group from practicing their religion in the manner they want to (provided that practice does not go against other provisions of the Constitution, of course)
then the government CAN NOT force that assistance on those people
Originally posted by Honor93
then the government CAN NOT force that assistance on those people
what ??? the government does not and cannot Force government assistance upon anyone.
where in the world did you get that idea ?
Originally posted by TheBeatMasta
reply to post by Andcoulter
Reading the title peaked your curiosity, did it not? You read it, so in my eyes, the title worked just fine. It made you comment on the matter. I win.
you must be seriously deluded ... how is the government forcing the receipt of healthcare ??
Another example, receive government-paid health care rather than privately funded health care