Raw Milk Co-Op Farmer Acquitted Through Jury Nullification

Raw Milk Co-Op Farmer Acquitted Through Jury Nullification

aotmr.com

Last week a Minnesota man charged with violating the state’s restrictions on raw milk sales was acquitted in what he and his supporters called a victory for consumer freedom. Alvin Schlangen is a peaceful farmer who connects people with the food sources that meet their high standards for health by providing private access under lawful ownership of farm animals. the member owners pay the Amish farm family for labor to milk the leased 100% grass-fed cows, manage the pasture, store the feed, etc. This co op is a sustainable farming effort where the value of food supports the cost incurred, wi

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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
New Hampshire Jury Nullifies its First Felony Case!

This is great news. Hopefully Jury Nullification is starting to catch on!

Now with the New Hampshire case being nullified: www.abovetopsecret.com... and now this hopefully this becomes a trend!

Over the past two years, the Minnesota Department of Agriculture has illegally raided Alvin’s van, warehouse, and farm resulting in the multiple charges that were decided upon in court last week. Technically, Alvin was guilty of breaking the laws in question, even though the laws are totally ridiculous and unjust. Luckily this jury was informed about the process of jury nullification, and their legal right to rule in favor of the accused for breaking unjust laws.

Jury nullification really can get us our country back!

aotmr.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Exellent! Most courts won't even let you discuss what jury nullification is!

Nice OP!

Let's see were the movement goes, you littte troublemaker.

I wish I could flag or star this more.

reply to post by hawkiye

THANKS for the thread, this deserves a constellation!!
It's nice to know a juror can't be punished for his verdict:
at least while the cameras are rolling and haven't been
EMP'd. Most of all I'm so happy the hammer missed the
target-- because it's being wielded by a real monster.
Also hope and pray more people who get called to jury
duty get as informed beforehand of their real duties as
these were. My only regret is the MSM is going to
ignore this development like the Bubonic Plague. Could
the tide of our common sense actually be returning?

Would have been nice if the article discussed jury nullification in greater detail.

This option, if valid, needs to be on blast.

It's nice to see something as non antagonistic as the amish get treated with the respect and common sense they deserved in this case, the jurors, whoever they are, i applaud your sense of common decency in aquiting these people.
We can hope now that this has happened that the government will reconsider idiotic laws such as this.

On another note, a few years back, a group of women from a peace movement broke into a secure military establishment and caused over a million pounds worth of damage to hawker sidley "Trainer" jets with hammers, smashing the consoles in the cockpits.

The jets were due to be flown to a foreign country and the women knew the government they were going to was well known for attacking it's own people, and was actively persecuting it's own people.
So in the name of peace, They broke in and radically redesigned them, a jury refused to allow a guilty verdict against them even though they admitted to the damage.
Pretty soon afterwards changes were made to the laws to stop jury nullification in cases where the crown wanted to prosecute guilty people.
kind of, you will not deny the beast a feast when the victims offer themselves for digestion, many people were happy the women walked away, i believe the jury was incredibly brave and just in stopping a prosecution of people who wanted to stop weapons leaving the country that in turn would have been used in illegal acts against civilians.

I do wonder if the american government will attempt a change in the laws if enough nullifications are presented to upset the establishment.

damn it appears this story stuck cord with these jurors...
i bet thay said this is fliping crazy! no way D A
good for evryone in this even the da thay gotta see that the draconian malarchy is for suckersvand slaves

Originally posted by jplaysguitar
damn it appears this story stuck cord with these jurors...
i bet thay said this is fliping crazy! no way D A
good for evryone in this even the da thay gotta see that the draconian malarchy is for suckersvand slaves

The more attention this gets the better and the more people educate themselves on jury nullification the more we take our power back. The one thing they cannot take away from us is jury nullification. Even if they try to pass some stupid law against it Juries can still nullify! We need to stop convicting our neighbors of bad laws and victimless crimes and stop avoiding Jury duty!

Originally posted by hawkiye

Jury nullification really can get us our country back!

edit on 1-10-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

There is just enough apathy about the future of the Earth to make this impossible.

reply to post by hawkiye


S&F Great news for raw milk lovers everywhere.

Originally posted by jeantherapy

Originally posted by hawkiye

Jury nullification really can get us our country back!

edit on 1-10-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

There is just enough apathy about the future of the Earth to make this impossible.

Nothing is impossible! Defeatists attitudes is the only thing that makes anything impossible. History is replete with people accomplishing the supposedly impossible!

I will never understand the fuss over Raw Milk. I don't see why government's concern themselves with it. If people want to drink right from the udder I'm not really concerned. As long as it's labeled, I think it's fine. You are more likely to die in a car wreck than from drinking raw milk.

Interesting that he was able to use Jury Nullification. It's been a long time since anyone has used it.

46 years old - grew up on raw milk.

Own a dairy and drink raw milk every single day both bovine and caprine. Never had an issue.

I sell raw milk to people but I have to put a silly label on there saying that they are buying it for animal consumption only.

I know they don't - they know they don't. The whole thing is stupid. I sell most of my milk to a bulk pick up company because pasteurization facilities cost s a fortune and the regs for its use are draconian.

I wanted to donate milk to the local food bank but they can't take it - so my charity is evidently not needed because of some federal laws.

Originally posted by hawkiye

This is great news. Hopefully Jury Nullification is starting to catch on!

Now with the New Hampshire case being nullified: www.abovetopsecret.com... and now this hopefully this becomes a trend!

Over the past two years, the Minnesota Department of Agriculture has illegally raided Alvin’s van, warehouse, and farm resulting in the multiple charges that were decided upon in court last week. Technically, Alvin was guilty of breaking the laws in question, even though the laws are totally ridiculous and unjust. Luckily this jury was informed about the process of jury nullification, and their legal right to rule in favor of the accused for breaking unjust laws.

Jury nullification really can get us our country back!

aotmr.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 1-10-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

uhh how can they be illegal raids if alvin was guilty of breaking the laws the DoA raided them for?
it doesn't matter if people find the laws ridiculous they protect us from getting sick, and he broke a law about selling people raw milk.
you can only sell people raw milk on the farm, not anywhere else, since people could sell you tainted milk otherwise.
it isn't an unjust law, it protects us from farmers who sell raw milk but don't care about other peoples health if their cows aren't healthy.
it is why the FDA exists! to protect us,

Originally posted by Golf66
46 years old - grew up on raw milk.

Own a dairy and drink raw milk every single day both bovine and caprine. Never had an issue.

I sell raw milk to people but I have to put a silly label on there saying that they are buying it for animal consumption only.

I know they don't - they know they don't. The whole thing is stupid. I sell most of my milk to a bulk pick up company because pasteurization facilities cost s a fortune and the regs for its use are draconian.

I wanted to donate milk to the local food bank but they can't take it - so my charity is evidently not needed because of some federal laws.

well that is just you, you have your own cows and you no doubt take care of them right?
can that be said of every farmer? no it can't. people have gotten sick from drinking raw milk, the records show this.
there was a huge drop in deaths when farmers pasteurized their milk, the records exist.
those federal laws have helped reduce the amounts of outbreaks of diseases and deaths in the world.
that is a good thing i would think.
maybe they need to help smaller farms get the equipment to pasteurize and meet the requirements, because no farmer can be sure if their milk is 100% safe, but it is at least safer pasteurized.

reply to post by hawkiye


s & f
I had to tag this thread because people need to be educated on jury nullification and what the constitution meant for all of us since it hasn't been taught in schools. Good job!

Originally posted by demongoat

Originally posted by Golf66
46 years old - grew up on raw milk.

Own a dairy and drink raw milk every single day both bovine and caprine. Never had an issue.

I sell raw milk to people but I have to put a silly label on there saying that they are buying it for animal consumption only.

I know they don't - they know they don't. The whole thing is stupid. I sell most of my milk to a bulk pick up company because pasteurization facilities cost s a fortune and the regs for its use are draconian.

I wanted to donate milk to the local food bank but they can't take it - so my charity is evidently not needed because of some federal laws.

well that is just you, you have your own cows and you no doubt take care of them right?
can that be said of every farmer? no it can't. people have gotten sick from drinking raw milk, the records show this.
there was a huge drop in deaths when farmers pasteurized their milk, the records exist.
those federal laws have helped reduce the amounts of outbreaks of diseases and deaths in the world.
that is a good thing i would think.
maybe they need to help smaller farms get the equipment to pasteurize and meet the requirements, because no farmer can be sure if their milk is 100% safe, but it is at least safer pasteurized.

That is Spun BS! Perhaps you could show the evidence for that? The reason dairies pasteurize milk is because the cows live in their own feces and are fed mostly grain diets not to mention GMO's which is not their natural diet and both promote diseases. The vast majority of illness from milk has come from factory farming. If you knew the amount of puss allowed in pasteurized milk because it is pasteurized to kill the pathogens you'd stop drinking it. I only drink raw milk from local farmers.

Illness from raw milk farmers is extremely rare and often ist blamed on them when it was a factory farm that really caused it. Raw milk has healing properties too and people used it for that in the 19th century. The idea that raw milk is dangerous is a scare tactic from the factory milk lobby. Healthy cows whose diet is mainly grass that don't live in their own feces don't have all the problems factory farming cows have therefore do not need pasteurization which drastically changes the properties of milk and makes it hard on the digestive tract. It is molecularly closer to drinking liquid plastic. Now days it is "Ultra pasteurized" with super high heat which is even worse for you.

familyfriendlyfarm.com...

Originally posted by demongoat
well that is just you, you have your own cows and you no doubt take care of them right?

For the record care and condition of the cows has zero to do with contaminated milk. It is during the, collection, handling and bottling process that this occurs. Cows do not produce milk with bacteria in it - well bad bacteria anyway. There are good bacteria in there that people need actually.

Originally posted by demongoat
can that be said of every farmer? no it can't. people have gotten sick from drinking raw milk, the records show this.

No doubt - I run organic cows and goats and I don't use any hormones or antibiotics nor do I dock tails and all my ladies get all the fresh air and exercise they want - which honestly is not much they mostly lay around.

However, factory farms are a nightmare - people get sick when the conditions in the barn cross over to the processing side somehow. This is why I sell raw not pasteurized btw just keeping up with the laws requires a 100K investment in a semi-sterile building and more in machines and such. I just sell bulk to someone who may or may-not (as it's organic) pasteurize it.

Originally posted by demongoat
there was a huge drop in deaths when farmers pasteurized their milk, the records exist.

Again, this is my business so I know all about that - pre 1938 was also pre refrigeration and refrigerated trucks. As I said it’s not the cows or the farm it’s the processing and transport times that likely caused all the e-coli to breed in the milk (or milk products).

Originally posted by demongoat
those federal laws have helped reduce the amounts of outbreaks of diseases and deaths in the world.
that is a good thing i would think.

I will not disagree with you on principle only practice. This is one of those classic examples of once a law always a law regardless if the industry methods have changed and improved to the point of basically nullifying its necessity. Prior to good refrigeration from farm to table (and in the home) this law was needed. Heck, I think it’s a good idea for most milk to get pasteurized as there is less waste and spoilage. However, some people want raw milk - they know the risks just like people who drink or smoke. Why should they not be able to buy it if they want it or me to sell it?

Originally posted by demongoat
maybe they need to help smaller farms get the equipment to pasteurize and meet the requirements, because no farmer can be sure if their milk is 100% safe, but it is at least safer pasteurized.

No milk is 100% safe even pasteurized milk. If you mean the government by "they" - no we spend enough subsidizing everything. Farmers can sell to a bulk tank collector and have zero need for a pasteurizer set-up.

People who want raw whole milk know what they are buying and are taking extraordinary steps to get it. The government in this case is interfering in free trade between consenting adults for a non-narcotic addictive substance. Seems a waste of resources to me.

reply to post by hawkiye


"Raw Milk Co-Op Farmer Acquitted Through Jury Nullification"?
God job!!!



Footnote; I just yesterday tried a variety of raw cheese from Whole Foods called "Old Fogey". Very strong and spicy. Yuk. Just a heads up on the cheese.

Originally posted by hawkiye
If you knew the amount of puss allowed in pasteurized milk because it is pasteurized to kill the pathogens you'd stop drinking it.

Puss comes from milking cows with beginnings of mastitis that for some reason were missed upon inspection at milking time. We pull any cow with a hint of mastitis off the line because to maintain my organic certification I have to segregate any cows on an antibiotic. Factory farms just pump them full of antibiotics and milk away. Imagine what It would feel like to have an infected body part mechanically milked - that is just cruel.

You still have to milk a cow with mastitis or it will get worse but we do it by hand and gently with a topical analgesic. I do not let my ladies suffer - ever. Anyway, I've only had three cases of bovine mastitis in three years. Carpines are more susceptible to it. I have several who got black mastitis which results in the auto-amputation of the teat. It simply dries up turns black and falls off.

Originally posted by hawkiye
I only drink raw milk from local farmers.

Cool - that is the way to do it. I have to play a game with the laws here one can sell raw milk for animal consumption so I just wink nod ask if they want it for an animal they wink back and say yes. I mark the container with a label to that effect. We exchange milk for money and we are all happy.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Healthy cows whose diet is mainly grass that don't live in their own feces don't have all the problems factory farming cows have therefore do not need pasteurization which drastically changes the properties of milk and makes it hard on the digestive tract.

Indeed during calving season I often sleep in my barn with those girls that are close - I roll out a bag in the straw and rack out. We have good solid patties that are dry and easily removed because I feed an organic certified diet.

Also of note is the fact that factory cows on a silage and grain diet have constant explosive diarrhea which is a nightmare to deal with.

They are basically chained to their stalls there is troth behind them that runs under the floor that leads to a pit full of liquid cow feces. They can only move about 2 feet in any one direction so they # on each other's udders since its explosive.

Then the factory teams come in and fail to clean the teats prior to coupling the milking machine and thus - e-coli comes from the cross contamination of stall to machine.