Chinese navy takes delivery of first aircraft carrier

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by DaesDaemar

 

This is old news mate.

Link

So is Stratfor.

Bizzare thing is I thought they already had one. It's not really unexpected that a country as vast as theres would have at least one. .

reply to post by Hyena


They've been refitting this one for several years now. Originally, the story was that it was going to be a floating hotel/resort/casino. They've only just recently been doing builders trials after getting her refit (she was in pretty bad shape from what I understand).

Are the Chinese now deploying this carrier in joint secret operation with the US Navy against hostile UFOs off the Northern California coast according to what the South Korean intelligence agency told Gordon Duff?
www.veteranstoday.com...

China has no need for an aircraft carrier. This is nothing but a dog and pony show.

They are among the top leaders in global economic warfare.

They should go back to making it a hotel... maybe throw in a casino.

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

You are very quick to dismiss anything military other than American. You have inside knowledge as to how this has been fitted, the systems they use?

Who is dismissing what? The Chinese are starting from scratch in carried aviation. There is a steep learning curve and unfortunately it is usually paid for with loss of life. I spent almost 5 years on carriers. We lost people on every deployment. Sooner or later somebody is going to smash a plane on that ship. I just hope that they are paying attention to their damage control and firefighting training.

Right now it is just a LFT. (Large Floating Target). Google "Shinano" and see what happens if they don't pay attention to their training.

reply to post by micpsi


China is YEARS away from deploying this carrier for anything but training in local waters (even if that story wasn't laughable). As far as I have heard, they haven't even started land based training for carrier pilots, and people aren't even sure what kind of planes are going to be on her deck.

The only good analysis that I've read, is that the J-21 has a good chance of being one of the planes on her deck, other than that, it's pure speculation, because they have barely begun workups.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by micpsi

 

China is YEARS away from deploying this carrier for anything but training in local waters (even if that story wasn't laughable). As far as I have heard, they haven't even started land based training for carrier pilots, and people aren't even sure what kind of planes are going to be on her deck.

The only good analysis that I've read, is that the J-21 has a good chance of being one of the planes on her deck, other than that, it's pure speculation, because they have barely begun workups.

edit on 9/25/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/25/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

How do you know that China is years away from operating its carrier in international waters? It is not good enough to try to dismiss statements with merely an opinion. That does not do the job. I am happy for Duff's claim to be dismissed, but any rebuttal must be based upon facts, not on opinions, otherwise it is little better than the statement that is being rebutted.

Originally posted by micpsi
How do you know that China is years away from operating its carrier in international waters?

Simple. They are not doing it. The only way to learn, in this case, is by doing. You can train all you want ashore and in simulators, but, it will only take you so far. You have to put the boat in the water and put the planes on and off the boat. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Originally posted by micpsi
How do you know that China is years away from operating its carrier in international waters?

Simple. They are not doing it. The only way to learn, in this case, is by doing. You can train all you want ashore and in simulators, but, it will only take you so far. You have to put the boat in the water and put the planes on and off the boat. Plain and simple.

Nope. China HAS sailed the carrier. Here are photos of its recent sea trials taken in May and on July 16, 20012:
english.people.com.cn...
english.people.com.cn...
By now, China's carrier may be sailing in international waters.

Anyway, the issue is irrelevant because the aircraft carrier is not among the ships in the photo of the Chinese naval forces supposedly off the coast of California that appeared in Duff's article in Veterans Today.

reply to post by micpsi


Sailing the boat is easy. Let me know when they start to launch and recover jet aircraft. Without an air wing a carrier is just a ship.

reply to post by micpsi


Do you have any idea how hard it is to land a plane on a carrier? It takes months of training, and lots of land based practice before you even attempt it. As JimC said, a carrier without an air wing is a floating target that does nothing. A carrier's entire offensive weapon system is the air wing. Show me a picture of the Chinese carrier with even a single plane embarked on it. There aren't any, because they haven't been seen to even be training on land yet.

Carrier aviation isn't just about cool equipment...

It takes a special sort of aviator to land on a short runway by snatching a wire with a hook. ...and, oh by the way, the deck is pitching up and down at the same time it's moving forward.

An aviator I knew told me it was an odd exercise in reverse optical physics... The closer you get to the ship's landing deck, the smaller it seems to be.

China is now where the U.S., Japan, and Great Britain were in the twenties and thirties... Developing an entirely new concept... In the twenties and thirties the planes were barely faster than today's sports cars...how much more difficult well it be utilizing jets?

I doubt they really know, as yet, just what they've got ahead of them. I foresee a difficult transition.

This will most likely be a traing ship. It has a long long way to go before it would be ready for any kind of operation. However it would work well for a traing ship while China builds its own carriers. Of course these carries would be more along the lines of ASW and some fleet air support like you find the role of most of the worlds carriers outside of the US.

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Google "Shinano" and see what happens if they don't pay attention to their training.

Then Google USS Yorktown (CV-5) and see what happens when the crew does.

Regarding Liaoning's operational near future ....

The ship’s full capabilities remain unknown at this point, but the size of the Liaoning and China’s relative lack of technical experience with carrier operations suggests that it will serve more as a training vessel then a deployable ship for combat operations.

The carrier can reportedly hold a compliment of 30 fixed-wing fighters compared to the much larger American Nimitz class carriers than can carry around 90 aircraft.

China’s normally nationalistic newspaper, Global Times, warned yesterday that the Liaoning “does not have the capacity to handle its tasks as it needs more adaptation to enhance its fighting capacity.”

China brings its first aircraft carrier into service, joining 9-nation club

reply to post by JIMC5499

Google "Shinano" and see what happens if they don't pay attention to their training.

No need. IJN Shinano was to be the third "Yamato" class super battleship... However, after the disastrous losses suffered at Midway, and the Solomon Island campaign, it was converted in the ways to an aircraft carrier. How effective it would have been will remain a mystery...as it was sunk, rather easily, by a U.S. submarine in late '44, or early '45, can't remember which. Damage control officer left things open that should have been closed, and it sank. Or something like that...

I'm a wwII carrier geek...

reply to post by MrSpad


I suspect you're right.

Much like the Argus, Langley, and Hosho were for the Brits, Americans, and Japanese respectively. It'll be used as a proof of concept more than as an actual combat vessel.

Originally posted by hp1229
Watch for chinese versions/clones/copies of it to come in the future

just like many soviet/russian/us/others military hardware.

The same thought occured to me reading ghe thread title.Hopefully their future carriers will have the same quality as their other"made in china"products.I fear for the world if the Chinese creates a powerful naval force in addition to their huge army.

reply to post by seagull


The Shinano was struck by two torpedoes fired by the USS Archerfish. One of these damaged a tank holding aviation gasoline. The Damage Control officer opened the watertight doors to ventilate the vapors from the gasoline. One spark later the Shinano blew up and sank.

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy

what are they going to put on it?
the two planes they just unveiled?
I believe the Japanese have a decent navy already,. certainly will be interesting

I don't know.

The chinese had some hope of getting some SU's to put on the carrier, I believe. I read something about it awhile ago. But the russians refused because they were afraid the chinese would rip-off their technology and sell it for half the price in the open market, taking away a big slice from the russians weapons market.

The japanese have a great force, but since they are forbidden to have a force capable of being offensive, I think they are not that comfortable with China having an aircraft carrier. The main advantage of the carriers is the ability to extend air superiority - or at least, control - far away from the main land. The japanese don't have that, unless they request U.S. assistance, which will only come if Japan is at risk.