Two unarmed female police officers shot dead in gun and grenade attack (UK)

Originally posted by Freeborn
Predictably we get the pro-gun brigade using this tragedy as an opportunity to voice their support of arming our police full time or relaxing our gun laws etc.

Yet they choose to ignore the literally thousands of similar calls that the police answer unarmed and which don't result in shootings.

The police don't want to be armed at all times and the British public agree with them and the majority do not wish any relaxation of our gun laws.

I am disgusted that some people have actually expressed what seems like delight at the deaths of these two WPC's.
I've had more than my fair share of dealings with the police and firmly believe there are many amoral and corrupt officers within their ranks and have reservations about the incestuous relationship between senior officers and other sections of 'the establishment' etc but most coppers are just ordinary, hard working people who just want to do their job.
Any attempt to defend or justify these murders is to my mind pretty low, cheap and just downright lousy.

no offence to americans but i agree,we don,t need to start shouting for rite to bare arms,america may be bigger but to ratio on shooting crimes then america is astronomical to any1 else

Originally posted by yorkshirelad

Originally posted by mr-lizard
www.bbc.co.uk...

Two female police officers have died during an operation which led to the arrest of a man wanted by Greater Manchester Police.

Police said both unarmed officers suffered fatal injuries during a "routine operation" in Hattersley, Tameside.

"Whilst they were inside around a dozen shots were fired and there was an explosion."

--

Firstly, why send two unarmed coppers to the location of a suspect wanted for two other violent murders?

Secondly, can anyone else see this leading to a call for armed police 24/7?

--

The last thing we need is the police to have more guns, they should be limited to certain departments/unit and that department/unit should have been the one sent inside the building.

(Oh and let's NOT have this thread turn into an American vs British gun debate).

Please read the story before posting comments. There was a "normal" call to a house where a suspected burglary was taking place. The police had NO IDEA that a wanted criminal was in there. Now this will lead to a call to arm police but there was no way in hell being armed would have saved them. The maniac lured them there with a false call with every intention of killing them. So unless firearms have little LED warning lights with some magic criminal sensor attached they would have ineffective.

Hi thanks for joining my thread.

You do realise the story has been updated since you joined? No need to tell me to read the link I linked to, when I actually linked it. Websites get updated.

Unless you think I may have linked and started a thread without actually reading my own sources?

Most of all, thanks for the sarcasm.

Her either did it for 'cred' on the inside or as another member said, he did it so he could be isolated, as he was already known for murder. To be separated from the inmates.

reply to post by mr-lizard


The police are just a private corporation the same as Mcdonalds be careful what you believe about our so called police force, for the elite use us as pawns

The Dunblane shooting which was done by Thomas Hamilton was used to take away peoples guns and each and every country has had its own version of the elite staging shootings

The kids murdered by Hamilton that day were apparently being supplied to the Scottish rite of freemasonry for their vile ways and then the case was buried by the judicial system in Scotland.

Edit
I just read the update where the burglar lured the pcs to the building nuff said this has false flag written all over it.

When will we insist on using MRI scanners to find out the truth about people and get rid of the corrupt justice system

Originally posted by jinni73

The kids murdered by Hamilton that day were apparently being supplied to the Scottish rite of freemasonry for their vile ways and then the case was buried by the judicial system in Scotland.

Do you mind providing a link for that info? Not that i believe it's true, they were just primary school kids in the wrong place that day.....but it would be worth looking at anyway.

When will we insist on using MRI scanners to find out the truth about people and get rid of the corrupt justice system

We already use them to find out the truth about them......i had one last month.....they found out my back is still as knackered as it always was. You do know what an MRI scanner is yes?

CX.

Originally posted by jinni73
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

The police are just a private corporation the same as Mcdonalds be careful what you believe about our so called police force, for the elite use us as pawns

They are a civilian service, controlled by government, then local government and funded by the tax payer, quite different from McD's, I'm not sure quite what you mean here.

The Dunblane shooting which was done by Thomas Hamilton was used to take away peoples guns and each and every country has had its own version of the elite staging shootings

The decision wasn't used to take away peoples guns, just have tighter regulations in place for those who can own them. It was for public safety more than anything else.

The kids murdered by Hamilton that day were apparently being supplied to the Scottish rite of freemasonry for their vile ways and then the case was buried by the judicial system in Scotland.

That is rubbish. My wifes father is a mason, he is a nice bloke, and whilst I don't know what he does when he is with his "friends", I can safely say it doesn't involve vile things with children.

Those kids in Dunblane were just unfortunate they went to the school that was targeted by Hamilton.

I just read the update where the burglar lured the pcs to the building nuff said this has false flag written all over it.

No, this has murdering psychopath scum written all over it, the only good thing to come from this is that he is still alive and we yet find some answers as to why he committed such a terrible act.

When will we insist on using MRI scanners to find out the truth about people and get rid of the corrupt justice system

I had an MRI scan once, when I was at school, so at least 16 years ago. I remember a strange knocking sound while I lay in a tube, then for hours after I peed a funny colour (I had been injected with a dye to make my brain stand out more.....they said, lol).

Not quite sure how they could use one to find out truth though. It's an imaging device, nothing more.

I need to stop listening to this radio station I've currently been tuned into. Nearly every caller is calling in demanding the police be armed and we bring back hanging. This is a tragic case, but not a time to start making huge changes to our justice system.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Agreed, what armed police force we have is enough IMO. Once they start arming (nearly) every officer, it is an invitation for the criminal gangs to start stocking up as well.

I don't think many officers want the emotional issues involved with shooting someone dead anyway.

As far as capital punishment is concerned, this country may be far from perfect, but it is a modern civilised society which doesn't need to resort to medieval barbarism to enforce the law.

Any country which executes criminals are no better than the criminals themselves, besides, death is too lenient a sentence for some people (and no, I am not suggesting torture).

i cant belive the way this has exploded, the whole thing reek's of a set up.

i heard the news report the other day while doing the washing up, the reporting on the radio seemed to be swaying the people toward the police,

i wondered if they would use this to try and sway the public towards an armed police force. thought nothing more about it and went to bed

today i turn on the radio for 20 mins in my lunch break and they are talking about arming the police and death sentences. ??? this is so fast its crazy.

then the guy that apparently did this turns him self in after allready beeing wanted for murder ???


hummm ???

www.bbc.co.uk...

But one thing is clear. When asked, police officers say overwhelmingly that they wish to remain unarmed. A 2006 survey of 47,328 Police Federation members found 82% did not want officers to be routinely armed on duty, despite almost half saying their lives had been "in serious jeopardy" during the previous three years. It is a position shared by the Police Superintendents' Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers. The British public are not nearly so unanimous. An ICM poll in April 2004 found 47% supported arming all police, compared with 48% against.

so the police dont want to be armed but the public see it as an almost 50% split i wonder if this is aimed to sway public feelings more toward armed police............ roll on the police state

reply to post by jericanman


It was one guy, an ex-tory minister, who was calling for the death sentence.

You will find most normal people of the UK are against such barbaric acts.

You will also find most normal people of the UK are against arming of the police, or the public.

EDIT: Here is the BBC story on it, as you can see from the readers comments at the bottom, the death penalty is a no no for most.

Norman Tebbit urges death penalty for police killers debate

reply to post by woogleuk



im still wondering if this is beeing used to sway public towards armed police. the death sentance is a side line.

im also wondering if the fact that it was 2 female officers that where killed was used to force this issue to a greater public debate, if it had been 2 large burly men would the gun issue be pressed as much???

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by jericanman

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19643846]Norman Tebbit urges death penalty for police killers debate

And as if the press didn't know that asking Norman Tebbit for his opinion on this matter wouldn't be met by just this very response. He has always been in favour of the death penalty, and welcomes any excuse to trot out the same tired old arguments in it's favour. Bless his teflon coated cotton socks.

All this speaks of is the media dragging the bollocks of a case that is already sewn up. Pathetic. No one has cared what Norman Tebbit thinks about anything for a very long time.

Originally posted by jericanman
reply to post by woogleuk

 

im still wondering if this is beeing used to sway public towards armed police. the death sentance is a side line.

im also wondering if the fact that it was 2 female officers that where killed was used to force this issue to a greater public debate, if it had been 2 large burly men would the gun issue be pressed as much???

The main point is that the Police don't want to be armed. And if they don't want it, it won't happen. I think that if the gender of the officers was an issue, then the usual argument, that women officers should be accompanied by a male officer when responding to a report of a crime in progress would have been bandied round a bit more.

Although, it has to be said, it could have been, but I don't follow the news as a rule

reply to post by woogleuk


Well, if it was Norman Tebbitt calling for the death sentence, then that's understandable considering IRA terrorists severely disabled his wife, wounded him and killed and injured many others in the 1984 Grand Hotel bombing outrage in Brighton. Lest we forget.

To topic. In a decade the police will still be routinely unarmed, the UK won’t have the death sentence and the numbers killed by firearms will be very low. It will remain a very rare occurrence for police officer to be shot on duty. That’s my prediction. There is no evidence to suggest this will not come to pass.

My sympathy to the families of these two WPCs.

Regards

The main point is that the Police don't want to be armed. And if they don't want it, it won't happen.

and they make the laws now ? not so sure about that..

i dont want to pay stupid taxes but it does not stop me having to pay them.

the puppet strings go up a lot higher than the police, if armed police are wanted by people in charge the police wont have much of a say in it.

and at the end of the day all false falg events are used to get the public at large to aggree with what the puppet masters allready want.

im not saying this is definatly the case here, but it could well be

reply to post by jericanman


No, the Police enforce the law, they don't make them. However as far as the way in which they enforce those laws is subject to a tripartite system. The Home Secretary, the Police Commission and the Police Authority. The Home Secretary could direct the Commission and the Authority to arm themselves, but they are under no direct obligation to do so unless they decide to do so unilaterally.

Arming of the Police force is an operational matter, not a matter of law.

reply to post by Biliverdin


ill take your word on that,

im just seeing it like this

an over top reaction = death sentance
more reasonable reaction = armed police

the public will go somewhere in the middle

and as most satanic plans are set the real thing they want is somewhere in the middle...

for example tazers or non lethal weapons for the police.

its ok we aint going to kill them,,, its ok we aint going to give guns to the coppers.

but they need more safty, they need tazers and other non lethal weapons ???

just a possible option that the debate may take

Originally posted by jericanman
an over top reaction = death sentance
more reasonable reaction = armed police

the public will go somewhere in the middle

No. Evidence from surveys et al suggests the public will seek the status quo. That is a routinely unarmed police force and no reintroduction of the death sentence. Some high profile voices may argue to the contrary, but they are only reported “in the interest of balance”.

Regards

theres a reason they call it Madchester