Not so fast there Islam.

Whenever there is conflict I try to understand both sides of the story, if two parties are angry enough to come to blows there must be a pretty good reason. The entire "Arab Fall" riots are a real mystery to me since there are about ten stories floating around about what actually lit the fuse. Assuming the initial reports are true, until proven otherwise, this all started because a 13 minute internet meme was insulting to Islam and their prophet. Imagine my surprise when I looked at the history of Muslim respect for Christian religious symbols.
One of, if not the, most sacred Christian sites is the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem. Completed in 340ad the site represents the site of Jesus's crucifixion, burial and resurrection. One would be hard pressed to find a more important place on the entire planet for a Christian, one would also have to be incredibly cruel to harm it.
938ad- Muslim's attack a procession of Christians on palm Sunday, they then set fire to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.
966ad- Muslim mob again attacks the Church, they set fire to the roof and burn the Matriarch alive in a vat of oil.
1004- Caliph al-Hakim launches a campaign of anti Christian fanaticism, churches are seized and destroyed. Over the next 10 years more than 30,000 churches are destroyed.
1009 Caliph al-Hakim orders the complete destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. This is carried out with such violence even the rock cut tomb of Jesus was demolished with pickaxes. The tomb was nearly obliterated.
Now, what is it that you radical hate mongers are angry about again?

Got some time to kill?I Went looking for information about the muslims blowing up buddhist shrines. I remembered.
www.giant-buddhas.com...

(I found this list, have a "nut"..)
wikiislam.net...:

reply to post by Trublbrwing


The point is that it is deemed deeply offensive to insult the prophet, that is the excuse being used. It's pretty much written into the religious doctrine that it is forbidden to depict the prophet and doing so is an insult.

There is no such doctrine in the Christian faith.

This is really a pretty pointless thread, because we could all go back through the history books and find countless examples of religious crimes from one faith against another. The Christian faith is guilty of so many atrocities against others we would need an entirely new forum to list them all!

The fact of the matter is that someone decided to insult a crazy religion, primarily because they believe in a crazy religion, and they think their crazy religion is better than everyone else's crazy religion... The crazy religious people who "chose" to be insulted used it as an excuse, or cover, to create widespread chaos and violence.

There was no excuse to create the film, other than they could. Likewise, there was no excuse to react violently to it. People choose to be insulted, they allow it to happen. If I don't want something to offend me, I ignore it.

There is no explanation for any of this other than some people want to hate each other, and the religious are ALL deluded into thinking they are superior to others. It's really as simple as that.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Rarely agree with you good chap, but I think you nailed.

Second line
Wish the world was more rational.

.....and lots of examples of Christian forces doing the opposite of respecting others and turning the other cheek, and all that could also be cited.
That is how they came into power at a certain point.

My personal view is that organized religion is not about logic and reason, and no amount of it shall detour the truly religious.

It is a way of combining emotional forces, which then can be used in many ways. One of the characteristics of collective thinking is a strong tendancy towards hypocrisy and contradiction between word and act. Any organized religion will cause that because of it's exoteric nature and exposure to our social instincts.

The same religious concepts practiced individually in an esoteric exercise, can do the opposite- be part of developing personal self mastership and integrity. But those are not the most visible praticers,obviously- they are not the ones you shall hear and see and be shot at by!

In the physical world, the guards change periodically. The dominant religious organizations change hands. When I was very young, I read the Bible on my own and had interpretations of what I was reading that others apparently didn't. I found myself corrected by adults when I discussed it with them.

But for me, when I read about an Anti-Christ, I thought it was just refering to another religion! One that would rise and oppose the Christian one and take the next turn for a couple thousand years.
I assumed it would use the same violent tactics the Christians once used,
would spread the concept of peace and obedience as a virtue for the subjects, as Christianity did,
and with time disburse, become less ocncentrated, and slowly become less fanatic and strict, the way Christianity did.
Until the next religion decides to take their turn and rises up....

I'd like to point out that the guy who made the movie was a coptic christian who is egyptian. He's not an american, and yet all the blame has fallen upon america.Perhaps the muslims should be angry with egyptians.But no it's all the fault of the US.They're always ready to blame some one before they know the facts. That to me anyway indicates that they're stupid.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

There is no such doctrine in the Christian faith.

Just because the Christian chooses to be a part time follower does not mean that Blasphemy is OK.

love your neighbor as yourself

How many examples does it take?

America is so good at justifying crap behavior.

Wait until they destroy the pyramids, then perhaps people across the world will see what they're all about....

reply to post by Signals

It's not the Pyramids, but there are some people who are beyond reason, and only some of them are on ATS. Remember that in some parts of the world it is the 21st Century.
www.france24.com...

AFP - Islamists have destroyed the tomb of a Muslim saint in a northern Mali region under their control, two months after similar incidents in the region brought widespread condemnation, sources said Monday.

"The Islamists on Saturday destroyed the mausoleum of Cheik El-Kebir, 330 kilometres from Gao," a local politician told AFP on condition of anonymity. "Twelve of them arrived at the site. They demolished the mausoleum with hammers, picks."

"Cheik El-Kebir's mausoleum north of Gao was destroyed. That's true," he said. "The Islamists have confirmed this. There is another mausoleum which they will also destroy soon."

Kebir's tomb is venerated by the Kunta tribe whose members live in Mali, Algeria, Mauritania and Niger.

The latest attack came two months after Islamists destroyed two tombs at the ancient Djingareyber mud mosque in Timbuktu soon after taking over northern Mali amid chaos in the wake of a coup attempt in the capital Bamako.

The fighters from the Islamist group Ansar Dine (Defenders of Faith) began their destruction of the city's cultural treasures on July 1, shortly after UNESCO placed them on a list of endangered World Heritage sites.

Declaring the ancient Muslim shrines "haram", or forbidden in Islam, Ansar Dine set about destroying seven of Timbuktu's 16 mausolea of ancient Muslim saints.

They also destroyed the sacred door of the 15th-century Sidi Yahya mosque.

Along with Sidi Yahya, Djingareyber and the Sankore mosque bear witness to Timbuktu's golden age as an intellectual and spiritual capital which was crucial in the spread of Islam throughout Africa.

I am waiting to see how this is equated with Christianity in the 21st Century. Heck, I'm waiting to see how this can be reconciled with sanity. If you don't see it yet, I can't imagine what it will take.

reply to post by 46ACE

Wasn't it nice of them to deprive the rest of the people on this planet from ever seeing them? If they bother you or upset your religious apple cart, LOOK AWAY and then WALK AWAY.
I'm not a fan of country music but I don't break my TV if some comes out of it, I change the channel.

reply to post by detachedindividual

The point of the thread wasn't to go down memory lane listing every single religious conflict, and it wasn't an attempt to downplay the significance of Islamic dogma. My point is, when you put the film in perspective it really doesn't justify the kind of violent actions we are now seeing. If anything the reaction is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, it depicts the violence in Islam, which resulted in violence.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Rarely agree with you good chap, but I think you nailed.

Second line
Wish the world was more rational.

Thank you, that means a lot coming from someone who isn't in my fan club, apparently there are thousands.
I'm actually making an effort to be a better member of the "community" here , this includes thinking before I post and being receptive to different opinions. Don't tell anyone.

Originally posted by lonegurkha
I'd like to point out that the guy who made the movie was a coptic christian who is egyptian. He's not an american, and yet all the blame has fallen upon america.Perhaps the muslims should be angry with egyptians.But no it's all the fault of the US.They're always ready to blame some one before they know the facts. That to me anyway indicates that they're stupid.

edit on 9/17/2012 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)

The irony is the guy who made the film is safe and sound but dozens of protesters are now deceased or injured severely.

reply to post by Trublbrwing

It definitely appeared that the whole middle east knew of that video before anyone on my suburban block. I usually find things fairly quick, but how everyone in the ME saw it before me...boggles my mind....now I dont even want to see it.

I do believe that film trailor was a pretext after the fact.

And, not to bring religion into this, but ancient Hebrew prophets prophesied this senario a very long time ago. It is a sign of the end times.