Hobby Lobby Files Suit over HHS Mandate, Could Face $1.3 Million in Fines

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posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Hobby Lobby Files Suit over HHS Mandate, Could Face $1.3 Million in Fines



''[W]e seek to honor God by operating the company in a manner consistent with Biblical principles. The conflict for me is that our family is being forced to choose between following the laws of the country that we love or maintaining the religious beliefs that have made our business successful and have supported our family and thousands of our employees and their families.''

David Green
CEO of Hobby Lobby
founded the company in 1972



I read this article and I must say that one thing really shocked me.
The potential fines are 1.3 Million [color=gold] per day.

Is this the governments' way of saying to religion,
not no, but hell no?


Mike Grouchy




posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Huh?



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Is this the governments' way of saying to religion,
not no, but hell no?



Absolutely. Very creepy when you think of where they might be trying to go with this move.

The Catholic bishops say they won't pay the fine. They will go to jail. If the lawsuits fail. We are only obliged to obey just laws and that is how it will be. As for paying unjust fines, same deal IMHO.

Glad to see that some people place great importance on their values and won't let them be comprised.

Also, it's nice to see a Heritage Foundation story on ATS. Thanks for posting.


sad eyed lady rooting for Hobby Lobby


edit on 9/12/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by gladtobehere
 


Maybe this'll help:



Under the HHS mandate, however, Hobby Lobby will be forced to provide and pay for abortion-inducing drugs such as the “morning after” and “week after” pills, regardless of their religious or moral objections to doing so.

- from the linked article in OP



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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I will be sitting over here waiting for Chick fil a to chime in........



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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While I understand that the MSM refuses to cover this, other than to say
"This is a war on women",
which is laughable.

But from what I can tell,
the movement against this
is currently the largest single voting block in the country.




Lincoln, Nebraska
www.youtube.com...

Orlando, Florida
www.youtube.com...

Omaha, Nebraska
www.youtube.com...

Athens, Georgia
www.youtube.com...

Washington, DC (Alan Keyes speaking)
www.youtube.com...

Columbus, Ohio
www.youtube.com...

New Haven, Connecticut
www.youtube.com...

Howell, Michigan
www.youtube.com...

San Francisco, California
www.youtube.com...

Lansing, Michigan
www.youtube.com...

Dalas, Texas
www.youtube.com...

Albuquerque, New Mexico
www.youtube.com...

Huntsville, Alabama
www.youtube.com...

Wall St, NY, NY (Rabbi Yehuda Levin)
www.youtube.com...

Wenatchee, Washington
www.youtube.com...

Louisville, Kentucky
www.youtube.com...

Raleigh, North Carolina
www.youtube.com...

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
www.youtube.com...

San Antonio, Texas
www.youtube.com...

Little Rock, Arkansas
www.youtube.com...

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (Independance Hall)
www.youtube.com...

... and many many more
These videos are of rallies for Religious Freedom.





The progressives are right about one thing,
abortion is an attack on women.


Mike Grouchy



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


Wow. This is news! My mother who runs who own business is a huge buyer and vice versa, Hobby Lobby a huge buyer of hers, we were even in there yesterday checking on her product sales. My goodness.. David Green is a very well respected man with well known morals and I know he will stand true to what he believes. Those are ridiculous fines.. Is it right to make a company choose between follow the laws or their religious views? I don't think so.. He has has success for so long running his business the way he does, everything from not opening his store on Sundays to his values, etc. I do hope this turns out okay. My mother has met him on more than once occasion and he is a man who will always remember your name.
I stand behind mister David Green and hope him the best in this law suit, support from his South region here no doubt!
Thank you for posting this I am passing the article on to my mother and her co-workers! Keep us updated!

Edit; just realized this was about abortion being forcibly offered through their insurance, wow. This is a very sticky situation! Basically they are saying go against your religious views and offer this or we will out you out of business by fining you 1.3 billion a day.. But the debate over offering abortion procedures and things such as the morning after pill to your workers through insurance already has been such a tough situation! Wow! This is about to get messy! I wonder what will happen! All I know is when abortion rights come into the picture, it always buts head with religious points of views..wonder what's going to happen!
edit on 12-9-2012 by Katharos62191 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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What will happen next?

Hmmm, I'm not sure.

Maybe HHS Secretary Sebelius will lose her job,
and hundreds of cities will protest the Abortifacient clause in the HHS Mandate.


Mike Grouchy







Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius violated the Hatch Act in February when she called for re-electing President Obama during an official department appearance, the Office of Special Counsel said Wednesday.

The finding could possibly cost Sebelius her job.

www.federalTime s.com

posted 4 hours ago







Next month, thousands of pro-life advocates in more than 100 cities will engage in rallies to stand up for their religious freedom against the controversial HHS mandate the Obama administration put in place.

www.lifenews.com

posted 3 hours ago



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Touchy issue here. While I would never suggest that a person get an abortion (other than in absolute life-threatening circumstances), I also believe that it is not my place to try and prevent a woman from doing it, within certain limitations anyway - not after a certain period of gestation, unless life threatening, etc.

As far as the company and the insurance company being forced to offer it, ugh ... its just a mess. On one hand I think that companies should have to abide by the law and provide for what is permissable by law. On the other hand, I dont think that the lack of providing these services due to religious beliefs justifies such a huge fine.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Where that point is, who knows. I'm conflicted on this whole thing.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter
Touchy issue here. While I would never suggest that a person get an abortion (other than in absolute life-threatening circumstances), I also believe that it is not my place to try and prevent a woman from doing it, within certain limitations anyway - not after a certain period of gestation, unless life threatening, etc.

As far as the company and the insurance company being forced to offer it, ugh ... its just a mess. On one hand I think that companies should have to abide by the law and provide for what is permissable by law. On the other hand, I dont think that the lack of providing these services due to religious beliefs justifies such a huge fine.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Where that point is, who knows. I'm conflicted on this whole thing.


That is exactly how I feel. I feel like I could argue both sides, and see reasoning behind both sides.. You said my concerns and opinion perfectly..This is going to be hard! Who are we to say what women can and can't do with their bodies, but also who are we to say a company should or shouldn't have to abide by certain laws other companies do! Ah!
This is no doubt going to be a mess!



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


I can see why she would have repercussion for this whole situation, I guess we will have to wait and see if she does end up losing her job..

Also, I have no doubt the rallies will start, there have already been many regarding this subject and I know this will spark many more.. Let the rallies begin.. I know there will be rallies defending both sides of this situation..

I guess this is just something we will literally have to watch unfold to see what happens.. Here we go!



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by Katharos62191
 

You may be making this a little harder on yourself than you need to.

Who are we to say what women can and can't do with their bodies, but also who are we to say a company should or shouldn't have to abide by certain laws other companies do!
I don't believe that the discussion is what women do with their bodies. I'm sure Hobby Lobby won't fire a woman because she gets an abortion. The question is, can the government order Hobby Lobby to pay for abortion drugs, when paying for them goes against their religious principles? Principles that existed well before there was a US.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


You are completely right, I got completely off track. That is what I meant I apologize for saying it wrong. I do realize the issue is trying to make Hobby Lobby go against their morals, not necessarily what I had said which is not really the issue here at all. Like you said, the morals they are concerned about keeping have been around longer than the laws trying to change that. I still think it is a complicated matter none the less. I did however, got off track for a minute, thank you for putting me back in line, lol.
edit on 12-9-2012 by Katharos62191 because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-9-2012 by Katharos62191 because: Multiple misspellings



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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The law of the land does not exclude retailers. Heck, I don't believe in taxes but I have to pay. Besides most of their employees don't have their religious convictions. So make them pay or fine them to death! America's health care is abysmal unless you are rich.
brice



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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This is a video I made on xtranormal
(free "text to movie" site) about the subject.

This is from back in February 2012,
and the bill they are talking about
in the begining of the video didn't pass.

But the real bombshell is that
abortion coverage actually [color=gold] saves the
insurance companies about 600k.

So by not including it,
the penalties have to be high high.

Like at aleast $600,000 per person.

This one fact
has been totally
obfucsicated out of the topic.

Watch at your own discretion.
2:07 running time


www.extranormal.com Presidentz Contraceptive



Mike Grouchy
edit on 12-9-2012 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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"adding contraception and having some employees take advantage of that, lowers the overal cost of the Health plan"

Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius


Here is the video link to her saying it.

www.pbs.org / newshour / june 12 / contraception
12:02 running time
quote is at timestop 8:45 - 9:53



Mike Grouchy
edit on 12-9-2012 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


Since when does an employer get to tell you how to live your life?

I am all for the owner believing what he wants but they are not allowed to change labor laws to afford those beliefs to supersede national, state and/or local labor laws.

The new socialist health care laws require some changes and there is a new cost of doing business associated. This is impacting some small, medium and even large corporations. Are we to believe that none of the insurance plans, at Hobby Lobby, offer these solutions within their current coverage? Kaiser, Group Health, Signa all have standard health insurance options for businesses.

I swear this country can manufacture drama everywhere just to ignore real problems that need focus.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by zroth
reply to post by mikegrouchy
 


Since when does an employer get to tell you how to live your life?



Contraception is the most freely availiable
over the counter
medication on the entire world market.

NO ONE is standing in the way of contraception,
but this mandate [color=gold] is trampling on religious freedom.

Rubbers and Pills are free
all over this country.

Why are they making churches Pay HUGE PENALTIES if they don't also offer it?


Mike Grouchy
edit on 12-9-2012 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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We are not just talking about abortifacients here.

Democratic Platform Endorses Taxpayer-Funded Abortions
www.weeklystandard.com...

So Obamacare, Medicare, and Medicaid recipients will be able to get abortions funded from federal tax revenues.
It sounds like the Hyde Amendment will be abolished to make this happen.

en.wikipedia.org...



In U.S. politics, the Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of certain federal funds to pay for abortions.[1] It is not a permanent law, rather it is a "rider" that, in various forms, has been routinely attached to annual appropriations bills since 1976. The Hyde Amendment applies only to funds allocated by the annual appropriations bill for the Department of Health and Human Services. It primarily affects Medicaid.


This is a very upsetting position for the Pro-Life movement. Now their federal taxes will be used for abortion. This HHS mandate as it stands makes those who oppose abortion active participants in the act of abortion by funding it. Our tax dollars now put blood on our hands if we pay. If we refuse to pay we go to jail. This is our predicament and this is why we are saying it directly violates the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.


The First Amendment prohibits the federal government from making a law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

en.wikipedia.org...

We believe Obamacare is unconstitutional for this reason. That is what all the lawsuits are about.



edit on 9/12/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by zroth
 

I think I may be missing some of your points, but your first two statements confuse me.


Since when does an employer get to tell you how to live your life?
No employer is trying to tell anyone how to live his or her life. The employers are just saying that they shouldn't be forced to pay for those choices. Women can get all the abortions they want, the employer doesn't care. It's that they have to pay for the woman's personal choices, and violate their religious beliefs while doing so, thats the problem.

I am all for the owner believing what he wants but they are not allowed to change labor laws to afford those beliefs to supersede national, state and/or local labor laws.
Well, of course, these aren't labor laws. They are Health and Human Services regulations, not sent through Congress, which change all state and local laws on the issue. They introduce new requirements. If anything, the employers would prefer to keep the old rules, not change them.

I'm not sure I understand clearly the rest of your post.





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