A Common Man's Guide to the Federal Budget.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by okyouwin
what's the other option? Governments control the money? This would pretty much give, let's say a great deal of control to government. That don't look desirable either.

Ridiculous response. Of course government should control monetary supply. Government should serve the people, not it's private, unaccountable lenders. Don't you think that $248 billion interest payment in the FY2013 budget could be better spent elsewhere? It's a gigantic sum of money, paid for by the people, that is not doing ANYTHING for the people. These taxes are going to waste. In 10 years interest payments on the debt are projected to quadruple. The annual budget will have to outlay a 1 trillion dollar interest payment. ONE TRILLION DOLLAR INTEREST. It is projected to cost more than medicare and defense spending. If you still don't understand how a system of debt slavery has been forced upon the people there is nothing more to say.

Then why is it that few currencies are managed by their governments? Because governments fu**k it up that's why. It' s amazing how some think that government has no place, is inept, corrupt and serves very little purpose. Wants the government out of their lives and yet wants to turn over something as vital as the money system to these "buffoons". History seems to show that currencies come and go. In the early history of the United States government controlled the currency and there was a pretty high failure rate, as we went through several.

You're all hung up on the interest paid, and it's true that's the problem with a debt based system. Eventually the new debt that needs to be created to service the old debt cannot be sustained, and the game has to be reset. This usually involves a great deal of suffering. It is here in this reset process that government has a major role to play, as an arbiter. of who is best able to suffer the losses with the lest amount of disruption. Let's hope they are up to it, because a blanket decision of "the bankers got to be paid." is a sure path to misery. See we're not so far apart after all.

Private enterprise is a remarkable engine and, over the last one hundred years that it has had control over it's life blood capital, has generally done very well for it's population. Not to say government does not have a place in this operation, but control? I'm not so sure.

Slavery? Debt, or credit as they like to call it has played an essential role in the advancement of a great many individuals. Lack of credit is a key component in the cycle of poverty for individuals, families, and communities. Debt is a shackle gladly accepted, and is an effective tool to achieve prosperity, by those that use it wisely. Very little force involved.

Originally posted by kingpin003

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000Under current 1+ trillion deficits? We're probably talking upwards of 50% cuts to really see the debt number start to shrink...then several years of living at that level.

Based on your numbers and the estimated interest rate that the debt has recently been growing by, I made a spreadsheet to play with that lets me see just how much of a surplus we would need to get out of this mess.

With a constant surplus of 500 Billion per year it would be 2079 before our debt is eliminated. Increasing the surplus to 750 Billion means we are debt free in 2044. These projections would be unacceptable to any debtors(not to mention it is unreasonable to expect 30+ years straight of surplus). As much as my conservative friends want to lower taxes and stimulate the economy, we simply cannot lower taxes without bankrupting our nation. Even holding them steady would require cutting 50% of expenditures to reach that 750 Billion surplus.

I have to say.....after building this thread and making those boards, I didn't think anything would make me feel worse than that just did. Math isn't my talent and so I avoided running those sorts of projections. Hadn't even considered the one you did, as it happens. I'm glad you did it and I'd love a U2U with the precise methodology.

As it happens, I'm making a full animated feature and using the National debt and spending as the primary focus. Your analysis adds a very stunning new dimension to the whole topic that really does bring impact that those massive numbers just can't for most people.

So...we'd need 3/4 of a billion dollars in Surplus, every single year....and not $1 in truly ADDED spending. Not $1 that cannot be directly covered at that moment and for that $1. That would still leave me pushing 70 years old to see a nation not in debt to others. Of course, we'll never see a 750 Billion Surplus running for over 30 years straight, without a single year of screw up. Politicians just don't have it in them.

I think I liked NOT knowing those last details better. Prior to knowing, I could at least lie to myself and say there was some formula...some magic combination of cuts and taxes that would EVENTUALLY end the nightmare. Maybe that could have been done.....when it was under 10 trillion. Maybe...but now? Your analysis does leave no hope at all without a crash and renumeration or redenomination. Bad times ahead I'm thinking.....