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The John Walker Family Spy Ring Thing Just Doesn't Ring True For Me

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posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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Years back, I got a little interested in the John Walker Spy family thing and did a lot of reading on the subject. I must admit that when I was first introduced to the subject, I totally bought in. Over the years, just thinking about it on my own, I have come to the realization that the American public was conned with respect to this Walker Family Spy Ring business. The story is simply not plausible. It is obvious Walker was some kind of double agent, pretending to be working for the Soviets and then the Americans orchestrated this fake bust of Walker. Perhaps his cover was blown or whatever. Anyway I have come to realize all of these Cold War spy stories are phony. Even the U2 thing. The Russians could not have shot that plane down . It flew too high. It was sabotaged or something.

Anybody know anything about Walker and his family? I suggest he was actually working the American side of the fence.
edit on 6-9-2012 by spencer2000 because: spelling corrected for "John"




posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by spencer2000
 


Walker stole the code keys for the Navy's encryption systems and sold them to the Soviets. His son stole coded and plain text copies of the same messages to allow the Soviets to do a double check of their decoding. I have read books that believe the USS Pueblo was seized by the North Koreans at the request of the Soviets to obtain the coding machines that were on board.

The author of the book "Scorpion Down" believes that the USS Scorpion was sunk by a Soviet submarine in retaliation for the loss of their K-129. In the book he states that the Scorpion's location reports were intercepted by the Soviets, thanks to Walker, and decoded, allowing her interception and destruction by a Soviet sub.

I have heard statements that if Operation Eagle Claw (the rescue of US hostages in Iran) hadn't had to abort due to helicopters breaking down, it might have been a greater disaster. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, several senior Soviet officers have stated that Iran had been warned about the rescue attempt due to information decoded thanks to Walker.

I was in the Navy when Walker was caught. There was a massive investigation into the system of granting security clearances. Many people had a higher clearance than they actually needed to perform their duties and had them reduced.

I personally know of one thing that might be attributed to Walker. One of my squadron's helicopters was using it's sonar near a Greenpeace boat in the Atlantic on a certain date. Nothing sinister, just training with one of our subs. About a month and a half later, each crewman of that aircraft received a letter, from Greenpeace complaining about their sonar's endangering marine life. The day, date and time were specifically mentioned in the letters. Our flight schedules are classified information. On ship they go into the incinerator. I know I've carried the burn bag many times. One thing, though, flight schedules are also transmitted ashore, in code. I have heard rumors of the Soviets funding groups like Greenpeace and the Sierra Club in the 70's and 80's to harass the US and NATO. I believe that they were also providing information to these groups as well, like Navy flight schedules perhaps?



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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I always thought Greenpeace was a little suspect. Interesting that you shared the sonar story. It does make you think. Would it be possible that civilians could detect the sonar being used by the sub somehow?

I dunno. They always seemed a little bit like they were drinking the Kool-aid Maybe they were actually drinking the Com-aid.

ANy personal opinions on the sinking of the Scorpion. Op, Jim?



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


I don't know anything specific about the Scorpion. It was a bit before my time. I'm not going to speculate on the book because I don't know what If anything I knew about systems and capabilities is still classified.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by spencer2000
 


Walker was a Watch Offcer at COMSUBLANT, he had access to all the comms crypto codes and machines for subsurface units. He copied those and also copied schematics and maint manuals for the cryptographic gear in use at the time and gave them all to the Soviets. He also recruited a Navy Radioman friend of his, his older brother a contractor and his own son. He tried recruiting his daughter who had joined the Army, but she got pregnant and got out.

He did it for what most people do it for, money. He was heavily in debt at the time. His ex-wife dimed him out after he wouldn't pay alimony. Also supposedly an FBI spy in Moscow overheard talk about Walker and notified the US.

I was in the Navy in 1985 when it all came out. That's when Two Person Integrity came about for COMSEC keying material, among other things.

Looking back, it was easy to see that it could happen with a person in his position having lone access to all the crypto codes and machines.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by JIMC5499
 


G,day mate. agree with your comment re. ivans and greenpeace. In the early 70's we (Aust Army) were informed, that greenpeace was se up by KGB money coming out through Dutch capital. One of the main greenpeace projects back then was the anti nuke protests. especially directed against the Yank development of what we called the BBQ bomb (barbi-q) or barbi. (cooking steaks on a weber.) We called it the BBQ bomb as 24hrs after detonation you were supposed to be able to send in the crunchies, grunts, footroot, PBI, poor bloody infantry. hoochie up on the spot and hold the ground. Anyway, the actual name of the bomb was the nutron bomb. If memory serves me correctly the protests led to the Yanks quietly giving the final stages of development and testing to the French, thereby deflecting greenie protests in the U.S. So we got a lot of laughs at the greenies expence and a hats of to the Yanks for thinking sideways. We used to say, thirty years of nuke imposed peace was better than thirty seconds of any kind of war.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Would it be possible that civilians could detect the sonar being used by the sub somehow?



If you are on a ship even in the vicinity of a pinging sonar you will know it! That sound reverberates through the whole ship. Not to mention that the Greenpeace ship probably had transducers trailed to listen for sea life. I'm not sure if those would have been able to pick up the sonar frequency or not. I believe some are scanning nowadays, but I have no clue if that was true back then.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by bg_socalif
 


That was when it changed from anybody in the squadron carrying the burn bag to the incinerator, to only people qualified to stand underway ASDO watches and even then it had to be TWO people. ASDO is Assistant Squadron Duty Officer, which ashore meant anyone E-4 and up. Underway it had to be an E-4 and up with a clearance. Ashore I worked Maintenance and had nothing to do with it.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Fare enough Jim. Maybe one day you can talk more about it.

I really enjoy your posts along with orangetom's. Speaking of him. Haven't seen him around lately. He was awesome. Very smart. Had tons of wisdom. Wonder where he went off to.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


Beats me. You should read Scorpion Down. There is some inconsistencies in the guy's research, but, he may have a point.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Yeah I read the book. I found it a more realistic sounding scenario than a random torpedo malfunction. But it is also conjecture so it's no better than most other theories as to what happened to the scorpion. If you say some of the guys stuff was off then I am inclined to believe you. One thing I know is that somebody somewhere in the navy knows what actually happened to the Scorpion. I can understand if they keep it classified it is probably for some good political reason.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


Actually the battery problem and the sharp turn to disarm a torpedo are factual. I'm referring to simple things like saying that a sailor from one of the rescue ships was recalled in the middle of watching a drive-in movie at 6:30 PM. In New York State, in the summer. I understand that errors can happen, but, this is the exact same type of error that he uses to justify his theory of a cover-up. Find some of John Craven's books and read them. You will learn a lot.
edit on 6-9-2012 by JIMC5499 because: typo



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