The United States has collapsed economically, socially, politically, legally, constitutionally, and

reply to post by CaptChaos

If you could explain it without saying it is ALL THE LIBERALS FAULT EXCLUSIVELY, then I may give it a listen. But if you will not assign any responsibility to the other side, corporations, profits before people, greed, human nature, or failing education, then I will move along.

reply to post by leosnake


Although I thought the OP could have included a little more insight with respect to the subject matter of the linked article, I still give it a F&S just for bringing it to our attention. I thought it was a great article, well written and spot on. Can't wait to read his opinion regarding the other problems he mentioned.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Another recent topic here on ATS about Paul Craig Roberts;
Americans: Serfs Ruled by Oligarchs by Paul Craig Roberts • August 19, 2009

Roberts was also Reagan's Assistant Secretary of the Treasury and is considered a "co-founder" of Reaganomics. So for him to now come out and refute "trickle-down" theory (actually he's been refuting it for a while) speaks volumes. at least he's awake to the poverty and debilitating effect of Reaganomics. Too bad the rest of the GOP still have greed as their prime motivator.

Poverty and debilitation effects of Reaganomics? The U.S. economy thrived as a result of Reagan's economic policies....

Many economists have stated that Reagan's policies were an important part of bringing about the second longest peacetime economic expansion in U.S. history, and followed by an even longer 1990s expansion that began under George H.W. Bush in 1991.

This economic expansion continued through the Clinton administration with unemployment rates steadily decreasing throughout his presidency (7.3% at the start of his presidency and 4.2% at the culmination, with the lowest rate reaching 3.9% in 2000).

During the Reagan administration, the American economy went from a GDP growth of -0.3% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988 (in constant 2005 dollars),[27] which reduced the unemployment rate by 1.6%, from 7.1% in 1980 to 5.5% in 1988, but with peaks of around 10.8% in 1983.

A net job increase of about 21 million also occurred through mid-1990. Reagan's administration is the only one not to have raised the minimum wage.

The inflation rate, 13.5% in 1980, fell to 4.1% in 1988, which was achieved by applying high interest rates by the Federal Reserve (peaked at 20% in June 1981).The latter contributed to a relatively brief recession in 1982: unemployment rose to 9.7% and GDP fell by 1.9%.

According to a 1996 study by William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore:On 8 of the 10 key economic variables examined, the American economy performed better during the Reagan years than during the pre- and post-Reagan years.

Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years. Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency.

The only economic variable that was worse in the Reagan period than in both the pre- and post-Reagan years was the savings rate, which fell rapidly in the 1980s. The productivity rate was higher in the pre-Reagan years but lower in the post-Reagan years

Reaganomics

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by CaptChaos

 

If you could explain it without saying it is ALL THE LIBERALS FAULT EXCLUSIVELY, then I may give it a listen. But if you will not assign any responsibility to the other side, corporations, profits before people, greed, human nature, or failing education, then I will move along.

edit on 27-8-2012 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)

Since the Fed was created and the Federal Reserve Act passed by a process of both parties and since both parties are party to the operation of it, it has to be both partie's fault. Doesn't that make sense?

nvm, off topic

The guy is just stating a bunch of facts. It's kind of a boring article because I know all of what he says. He just stuck it all in one article so people don't have to run all over the place looking for things. It doesn't matter though, people think the government isn't going to let this happen, guess what, it already happened and the government was backing some of these actions by not stopping them from happening. What can we do? Nothing at this time.

We will not get our country back, the upper middle class that is working seems to have followed the big businesses and rich. Wake up upper middle class, you will be targeted for termination as soon as the lower middle class will work for much less. You have no protection, you are expendable and you have alienated the rest of the middle class. In a few years you will be offered to keep your job at one third the pay or be fired.

Originally posted by rickymouse
We will not get our country back, the upper middle class that is working seems to have followed the big businesses and rich. Wake up upper middle class, you will be targeted for termination as soon as the lower middle class will work for much less. You have no protection, you are expendable and you have alienated the rest of the middle class. In a few years you will be offered to keep your job at one third the pay or be fired.

I hope you are wrong, but I fear you are not...

reply to post by Drunkenparrot

Poverty and debilitation effects of Reaganomics? The U.S. economy thrived as a result of Reagan's economic policies....

The national debt went up 186% under Reagan. Because Reagan had to borrow money like crazy to make up for the huge tax cuts he gave the wealthy. Not to mention they had to raise the debt ceiling 17 times while he was in office. When Reagan went into office the national debt was 800 billion when he left office it was 3 trillion. Reagan's voodoo economics was a failure.

Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
The only thing I wonder at this point is if we can defeat our own ‘military’…

I had the thought that would it be a possibility to encourage such disparity for the gov't to enhance the armed forces by eliminating the middle class. Isn't this how China managed to have the largest amount of troops - due to the economic structures in the Republic of China?

In reference to the fact of standing against our own military; I believe that most of our troops take the oath to protect the UNITED STATES from both foreign and domestic enemies. I am not so sure if the military would remain in tact if they were ordered to deem their own peoples as enemies of the state. Unless of course the states happen to break from the union.....and with that comes another thread I guess.

One last thought regarding the economic stance of our country - people will not remain in such dire straits. Push comes to shove - there are more people with gun permits/hunting license in our country then there are troops.

He lost me at "free markets is a ideology not reality". And than goes on to name all the problems that were caused by the "Republican Free Market" and "deregulation". I think the Policies of the Congress, Senate, and President over the last 25+ years have caused the majority of the problems we have today.

I propose that we do not allow Presidents with the same last name (related). I propose anyone with the last name Pelosi, Bernanke, Greenspan, Jackson (Jesse and his Son), Obama, Mcain, Quayle, Gingrech, Rove, (There are more, feel free to expand this list) do not step foot closer than 500 yards of the White House, unless there visiting with there family. Also, we make them take at least 5 pictures of the Constitution and hang it up in there house for at least the amount of years they were in office because they were the cause of all these problems we have now.

Sure, deregulation can be taken advantage of, but there are safe guards that are already put in place by the Constitution and Contract Laws that the "free market" can work.

If all it takes is a hand out than its easy for the Congress to do the bidding of the person who is giving the handout. Now isnt that Ironic. The Congress, Senate, and the President the biggest Welfare Recipients in the Country.

Hmmmm... very interesting! Time to ship Lady Liberty off somewhere packed in shrink wrap for ONEDAY when Americans, AGAIN, stand up for what they believe in! Land of the "Free" and home of the "Brave"?

Americans need to start standing up for what the forefathers fought for. But let's face it - the world is an absolute mess!

I can imagine many years ago the ships that came from far and wide carrying people hoping and praying for a better life. Now that REALLY didn’t last long – did it!!

The following is from 2006!!!!!

As many people around the World continue in their amazement over the total moral and economic collapse of the American Nation, a possible new clue as to why this so was revealed this past week with the United States Department of Justice announcing the staggering rate in which their government has been jailing their own citizens, and which now stands at 7 million Americans.

According to these reports, 'A record 7 million people - or one in every 32 American adults - were behind bars, on probation or on parole by the end of last year', and when these figures are added to the estimated 1 million prisoners of war held by the Untied States, all around the World, the once great American Nation has now become the greatest jailer of human beings the World has ever known.

Go here to read it all!

The BIG question is WHAT are the American citizens going to do about this? Probably nothing which is WHY it is the way it is. Unfortunately the strength in numbers REQUIRES NUMBERS!

reply to post by hoochymama


But the reality is, it is not a free-market, it is a capitalist market. Capitalism is not free-market. Private owners of the means to produce are as much an authority over the markets as the government is. Capitalism is based on surplus capital, and only a minority have access to it. That access is obtained by exploiting labour, the worker has to produce more than they are paid for, to create surplus capital, or surplus value, profit.

Free markets have been around for ever, but surplus capital only became a reality in the 1700's when laws concerning land ownership were changed. Free market does not mean capitalism.

The root of our economic problems, and the social problems that stem from it, is an economy ran by and for private owners of the means to produce. The up and down of capitalist economies is know as the business cycle

Now we are in a global economy countries, rather than just regions, will be more effected by this. So many of the jobs of the US, and I guess some European countries, have gone to cheaper labour markets. This would not be possible if the means to produce were owned in common by the workers, who would of course be more concerned with their communities interests, and not send their own "jobs" overseas. Of course also with no single owner it would be much less likely.

On top of that you have the expense of supporting capitalists interest overseas with a military paid for by you. The oil companies and the military industrial complex are doing very well thank you very much.

If you want to know who the "shadow government" is look no further than the oil industry...

Here are some more highlights from the big five’s activities in 2011:

They produced 4 percent less oil and “oil equivalent” in 2011 compared to 2010.

They spent a total of $38 billion, or 28 percent, of their profits to repurchase their own stock.

They are sitting on more than $58 billion in cash reserves as of the end of 2011.

They spent $1.6 million on campaign contributions and $65.7 million on lobbying efforts.

For every $1 spent on lobbying in Washington, the big five received $30 worth of tax breaks.

Big Oil’s Banner Year: Higher Prices, Record Profits, Less Oil

Capitalists control government to their own benefit at the expense of our economy, not their economy, oh no they are doing just fine.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

Poverty and debilitation effects of Reaganomics? The U.S. economy thrived as a result of Reagan's economic policies....

The national debt went up 186% under Reagan. Because Reagan had to borrow money like crazy to make up for the huge tax cuts he gave the wealthy. Not to mention they had to raise the debt ceiling 17 times while he was in office. When Reagan went into office the national debt was 800 billion when he left office it was 3 trillion. Reagan's voodoo economics was a failure.

Voodoo economics , I havent heard that in a few years.

History disagrees with your assessment...

These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months.

During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed. Astoundingly, inflation from 1980 was reduced by more than half by 1982, to 6.2%. It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently. The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.

Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade.

Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures

Where is the failure exactly?

What's the root cause of the US's and the developed world's economic and social woes? Globalization and deregulation as far as I'm concerned.

The corporation is a non democratic entity that serves only itself.....and being...well....corporate....its only real concern is money. But with that dehumanizing perspective I let the individual people responsible for the current sorry state of affairs entirely off the hook. For all their wealth and unfair advantage, on the face of it, I'd say they were all rather crap at sustainable business at the local, national and global level. They also appear to have zero history in their educational curriculum and do insist on repeating 'mistakes' of the ages. (mistakes amounting to the consolidation of wealth into fewer and fewer pockets).

And what about us? Back in the day, before the onset of 24/7 media and corporate propaganda, people actually cared about disparity - for the sake of themselves and for their children's futures. Not only did they care - they somehow found the motivation to switch off their TV set and go and do something about it. We, on the other hand, have been divided and soundly conquered.

Surprised to see Paul Craig Roberts, of the Reagan administration, criticize principles of a free market economy, considering his stance in the past.

I agree with many of his positions on Israel, Bush, 9/11 Truth, the media, war on drugs, and of-course his support for RON PAUL.

If anything, the principles of a free market economy are what should be defended considering the fact that we have nothing which remotely resembles a free market economy.

Would be nice if we actually had a free market.

We have crony capitalism and a bloated federal government so big that it is now the largest employer.

I don't know what this guy was in the past and I don't care. What concerns me is what he is saying now and I think that his message is good, even excellent. I don't know if you read some of his other articles. I just read couple of them and I am impressed. I also like his style, clarity and simplicity in explaining some pretty complected stuff.

P.S. I don't know if anyone noticed his link to another article: Homeland Security Prepares for Civil War
www.opednews.com...
I know it it has been discussed here before, but nonetheless it's something that is very disturbing and should be brought to attention as much as possible.

he brought up some good points, but he didn't give anything on the the literal destruction of our currency and EPA regulations that prevent any manufacturing in our country. those two things have a big impact on our economy.

IMO the currency was possibly devalued to invite foreign business over.....maybe, but regulations prevent them from coming because it would cost the piss out of them. there has to be a happy medium i would think.

i do love how he makes the point about ideology and reality. lots of things look good on paper but mankind will figure out a way to corrupt it.

Originally posted by jtap66
Wow. An article that casts the right wing in a bad light, adresses the absurdity of a lack of regulation and insinuates that the poor aren't to blame for all our problems.

This should go over like a lead balloon.

(For the record, I think this is spot-on. Thanks for posting.)

Thank you for posting that. Cracked me up - lead balloon.
Was going to post pretty much the same thing myself.

I wonder why this guy Paul made a 180. Are there more doing that, are more to follow?
Anyways, probably too late. Hindsight is 20-20.

Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
The only thing I wonder at this point is if we can defeat our own ‘military’…

It wont be our own military we'll have to defeat....it will likely be someone elses. Our military will play a more neutered roll if any.