question for atheists......would you impersonate the messiah to end world wars?

Regardless if Atheists or Theists, the answer is NO.

It needs the real deal from our common Creator, who loved us ALL and is known by many names across time and space.

The reason is - we humanity are FLAWED.

Given free will to choose and decide, when power is given, it is often corrupted. And when ABSOLUTE power is given, it corrupts even absolutely, proven time and time again since the dawn of our civilisation.

None, no mortal had proven otherwise.

There were many truly good men, such as Washington, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Churchill, Sun Yet Shin, etc,. Ghandi was one of these great man of his time, and yet he was considered flawed, due to his treatment to his family, but he knew his limitations.

Although his concept of 'preaceful revolution' would never work in a world filled with wild beasts such as Stalin or Mao, it worked with the more cultured and refine English, and saw independence for India.

Prior to that, he knew the flaws of mankind and instructed his followers of dissidents to disband upon achieving freedom. But Nehru did not follow, and we see the consequences of such disobedience today - corruptiong at the highest levels that had setback Great India for decades, for the freedom fighters felt they deserved 'entitlement' - power and wealth for their efforts, same as the great commies of China, which resulted in corruption, cronyism and oppression of the masses.

Thus, if a noble minded man or women were to think he/she can pull such a trick, it will only end up mankind worse than before, because of our flaws, no matter how much we delude ourselves that we can change this trait. On a national level, with millions of lives at stake, the only way to change is to abdicate or resign, otherwise more will suffer.

Take a case of example happening right now:-

The Iranian PM Ahmed thinks he is the Mahdi, for the drug crazed Khomenei had apostically prophecy his next heir will be the one to usher in the Mahdi. Who else but him being the one?

But is he truly the one, with his warmongering, belligerance and treatment using repression upon even his own People? Is this the one who will save mankind? If so, then I think our fellow brothers and sisters in Iran would rather be dead to be spare the ensuing suffering.

Another deluded fool is the apostate Khamenei. He had been working hard on the ground in Qom, where the Mahdi will come from. Firmly beliving in the tale of the Mahdi, there needs no doubt that he thinks he is the one. Already capable of apostacy, there is no further fear to twist the tale to being the Mahdi himself.

Qom residents, whom already know him well, had grovel before him, treating him as god-on-earth, will foolishly accept his worlds, and through them, lent credibiltiy to the tale of the Mahdi appearance to ALL muslims sects on Earth, in the hope that all may kneel and sing praises to him. That's what's he been dreaming about, in his numerous supposed 'meditation' while falling asleep after a heavy meal.

In all honest truth, all mankind wants is to achieve common aims - peace, love, justice, equality, shared prosperity, responsible freedom,etc, etc. If a leader can provide such, he would be accepted.

But can this apostate Khamenei offer such? Judging by his record of funding terrorists to butcher innocent men, women and children around the world and repressing his own people, it would only be a fantasy. Worse when he gains absolute power, with such deluded dreams, he will turn out far worse than the decadent caliphs during the Ottoman era.

No mortal can fake it. Its got to be the real thing, divinely inspired and worked out, or nothing.

And as a footnote, do not, do not seek for the return of the Messiah. His return will only mean Judgement day. Only 144,000 humans will be saved. The insignificant nobody me is flawed and most certainly doubt to be one of them, but am prepared to face my Maker for the things I had done. Those whom think themselves sinless and is one of them, will be worse, for no mortal is, and would most certainly be not among the saved. And if by some miracle there are those who make it, I doubt if they want to go, for it would mean leaving their loved ones behind - family, relatives and friends. It will be the most tragic day for all mankind.

Rather, we have the capability to acknowledge our errors, correct them and progress, as a collective, and not rule by one flawed mortal alone. None knows the end day, but we do know that if we continue killing and be selfish, the end will surely come one day, and soon.

Originally posted by Ghostfreak1
More seriously... many wars, while not being directly religion-related are indirectly... Well I bet in the "scoring" system of your linked post, that kind of wars would deserve a 3 or a 4... does that make them non-religion related ? No... Even if it scores a "1" it would be...

Even by your claim here, 60% of wars scored a zero, so your initial post, that religion is the main cause of war, is untrue. What religious fight was World War 1 about? World War 2? Vietnam?

In addition, by noting that anything other than a zero doesn't make a war "non-religion related" ignores the fact that there are other contributing factors that would still exist in the absence of religion. People will still go to war, because war is usually about resources, and there will always be conflicts over them. So, we can say that your claim that "if you want to end all of the wars around the world, the first step would be to BAN religion" is an irrational statement.

Rather than wasting your efforts in trying to ban something you don't like, maybe try contributing to the resolution of the actual root problems.

As a atheist who has read the Revelation of St. John, even I know that the Messiah isn't supposed to end war -- the Messiah is a warrior king who is supposed to plunge the world into a massive, all encompassing war. Read your Bible. It's all there.

But answer to your question, no, I think I'll pass on the phoney Messiah thing. There are already plenty around.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


I would absolutely not do it. Ending their wars by pretending to be the fulfillment of their prophecies is the wrong way to go about it. If they're going to stop their wars it should not be because they're right; but because they finally come to their senses, realize their feuds are petty, their gods imaginary, their dogmas mind-control, and their tactics destructive to the species as a whole. The only thing which should end their religious wars is intellectual enlightenment via the destruction of their patently false teachings and outdated religious beliefs.

~ Wandering Scribe

Why not forget the impersonating part,,,, and convince every single person that they are the messiah, when they all agree to end world wars/..

reply to post by ImaFungi


Unfortunately, the subservient mind-set of Christians and Muslims makes it so thinking for themselves, or believing in their own divine potential, is impossible. Everything must be the work of Allah, or by the grace of God, or in the hands of Jesus Christ. You'd never be able to convince any of them that they have any power outside of relying on their godhead to grant it to them. That's why these holy disputes continue. None of them are willing to stop until their Holy Messiah comes down and says they were the right ones.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Ghostfreak1
reply to post by adjensen

 

So I won't change my mind just because you think I'm wrong... Just as you won't change yours because I humbly express my opinion

Peace.

Geez, and here I thought it was you God haters who kept saying "respect the evidence! Stop twisting the truth to support your beliefs!" I give you a scientific study on the causes of war, and you dismiss it because it doesn't conform to your beliefs, just like the theists that you look down on.

Yet another myth busted, lol.

reply to post by adjensen


Since when a a mainstream media show constitutes a scientific study ?
You give absolutely no sources except saying it's from a BBC show... You just drop by a few numbers without even saying who conducted that study (you just say who showed it on tv)
So if that's your conception of science... You probably think you live in a quite strange world

Since you don't seem to have enough commonsense to guess it by yourself... hasn't anyone told you NOT to blindly believe what you see/hear on TV ?

Bring on the scientific studies you mentionned instead of just trying to look smart by saying you said so... and remember, Deny ignorance

EDIT: Oh, and in your previous post, you mentionned WW2 as an example of NON-religious wars... don't know about your other examples, but WW2 indeed is... Otherwise... You must tell me what was the german jews genocide attempt if it wasn't religious

reply to post by BIHOTZ


pardon me if this has already been said but most wars- though due to human nature- have been supported by religions. how would a messiah make any difference except for more "holy" wars?

somebody (i forget who) said that when the Messiah shows up it is already too late.

reply to post by BIHOTZ

what if you could do everything a messiah could and you then just show everyone that it is not being God but something else....in essence showing them that their religion is wrong.....EDIT: or misguided.

thin ice I know....but if you could...would you expose "being the messiah" for what it really is.

Show them what God really is to you?

Where are the auditions? When? I'm in.......

excellent idea!!!
S/F


The thing is, we are ALL connected; and the person able to get the world to see that is manifesting "God".....we are all part of the same system; like cells in a body. We need to realize that we are the ones with the power to see, and the change things. That is God -- we all are part of the One Truth

Originally posted by Ghostfreak1
reply to post by adjensen

 

Since when a a mainstream media show constitutes a scientific study ?
You give absolutely no sources except saying it's from a BBC show... You just drop by a few numbers without even saying who conducted that study (you just say who showed it on tv)

It wasn't a tv show, it was a study commissioned by the BBC.

And apparently you didn't bother even looking at it, or you would have seen this at the bottom of page one:

This article is not meant to be a piece of original academic analysis, but rather draws very heavily on the work of scholars in a diverse range of fields. All material drawn upon is referenced appropriately.

Dr Greg Austin is a principal research Fellow in the Department of Peace Studies, University of Bradford. Todd Kranock is a Research Assistant at the Centre for International Co-operation and Security, and is also
completing a Master of Arts in Peace Studies from the University of Bradford. His MA dissertation focuses on US imperialism and its ‘dominating culture of violence’. Thom Oommen has just graduated with a Master of Arts in Peace Studies from the University of Bradford. His MA dissertation focused on Hindu nationalism and communal riots in India.

and you would have seen footnotes citing sources on pretty much every page.

EDIT: Oh, and in your previous post, you mentionned WW2 as an example of NON-religious wars... don't know about your other examples, but WW2 indeed is... Otherwise... You must tell me what was the german jews genocide attempt if it wasn't religious

The Germans also killed gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled, and millions of others -- about half of the people killed in the Holocaust were non-Jews. At any rate, the war wasn't "about the Holocaust", it was "about Axis imperialism" and an attempt by Germany, Italy and Japan to conquer their neighbours.

Your title contradicts your OP. Messiah means savior, antichrist would mean the exact opposite of that, no?

If I could convince the world I was the chosen one, and that would mean world peace at least until I croak would I do it. In a heartbeat.

reply to post by BIHOTZ

This is a trick question. If all three religions believed that you were the Messiah then that would make you their Messiah. No need to lie.

The sign of a false prophet or Messiah is one who declares themself to be that, i.e. prophet or Messiah. A true Messiah would be one that all people believe to be their Messiah not one who simply declares himself one.

What does the good book have to say about this when Jesus was asked if he was the Messiah.

Mark 8:29

Jesus asked the followers, "Who do people say I am?" The followers answered, "Some people say you are John the Baptizer. Other people say you are Elijah. And other people say that you are one of the prophets." Then Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?" Peter answered, "You are the Christ." Jesus told the followers, "Don't tell any person who I am."

It is of my personal belief that Jesus never declared himself to be a prophet or Messiah. It was the people that believed this to be so and thus it was so. The reason Jesus instructs his followers not to tell others who he was is because that would make it wrong. It is up to the induvidual to decide for themself. In this way it is the thought that creates the reality.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


I agree with the first post. Further deception wouldn't solve anything. We should let them play with their toys until they grow up. But in the time being me must insist that they keep their toys to themselves.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Ghostfreak1
reply to post by adjensen

 

So I won't change my mind just because you think I'm wrong... Just as you won't change yours because I humbly express my opinion

Peace.

Geez, and here I thought it was you God haters who kept saying "respect the evidence! Stop twisting the truth to support your beliefs!" I give you a scientific study on the causes of war, and you dismiss it because it doesn't conform to your beliefs, just like the theists that you look down on.

Yet another myth busted, lol.

There's no doubt that wars and violence are caused by religion. Look at Israel, if it wasn't for "promised land" written in scriptures there would be less hostility. No one is saying wars arn't caused by issues other than religion, but you only have to do a small ammount of research into the past to find the cause time and time again being religion.

A simple NO.

Trickery and Deceit?

Maybe man should just learn to be responsible. And stop making excuses.

Originally posted by NeverForget

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Ghostfreak1
reply to post by adjensen

 

So I won't change my mind just because you think I'm wrong... Just as you won't change yours because I humbly express my opinion

Peace.

Geez, and here I thought it was you God haters who kept saying "respect the evidence! Stop twisting the truth to support your beliefs!" I give you a scientific study on the causes of war, and you dismiss it because it doesn't conform to your beliefs, just like the theists that you look down on.

Yet another myth busted, lol.

There's no doubt that wars and violence are caused by religion. Look at Israel, if it wasn't for "promised land" written in scriptures there would be less hostility. No one is saying wars arn't caused by issues other than religion, but you only have to do a small ammount of research into the past to find the cause time and time again being religion.

Did you even bother to read the study that I referenced? Because it shows you wrong, flat out wrong. Wars are almost always political, not religious. Israel? Their beef with the Palestinians is about land, not religion, and the remainder of the region opposes them more as a propaganda device to keep their own people happy, not because there is any real point to, say, Saudi Arabia hating on Israel.

reply to post by adjensen

Their beef with the Palestinians is about land

Land promised in scripture, holy land.