Voters ID

This is a serious question to all my lefty hippy ATS brethren: why are voter ID rules bad?

reply to post by Vrill


Good question!!! Considering I have to show mine to get booze, get into a titty bar, get money out of the bank, and most importantly have it on me to show the police if they should ever choose to f$%^ with me (being that I look more like the dwarf from Lords of the Rings and nothing at all like someone from south of the border)!

I have always been interested in this as well. Maybe I will learn why it is "frowned upon" shortly. Like Seeker said... I have to pull mine out for a ton of things. I am not sure why folks hate the idea of having to whip it out to make sure dead bodies and non citizens aren't casting votes as usual.

any rule that would prevent anyone who is legally eligiable to vote is bad.

Is it so hard to believe that there are people who may not have current valid ID out there? That when given the choice of renewing their ID or eating that week they may have chose eating?


If they give them out free to any citizen with out charging a fee or tax, than by all means fine.

Until than the problem still exist of limiting the right to vote.

Its a voting tax making people pay for the ID to vote.


Oh and heaven forbid it be free id's cause thats just socialism...

Oh I am by no means a Liberal "hippy" not everyone that disagrees with you needs to be "degraded" or name called.

Originally posted by benrl
any rule that would prevent anyone who is legally eligiable to vote is bad.

Is it so hard to believe that there are people who may not have current valid ID out there? That when given the choice of renewing their ID or eating that week they may have chose eating?


If they give them out free to any citizen with out charging a fee or tax, than by all means fine.

Until than the problem still exist of limiting the right to vote.

Its a voting tax making people pay for the ID to vote.


Oh and heaven forbid it be free id's cause thats just socialism...

Oh I am by no means a Liberal "hippy" not everyone that disagrees with you needs to be "degraded" or name called.

edit on 1-8-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Star for you, because I can see the common sense in this. Thanks for the level headed view.

ETA, that this is why I love ATS. Something as simple as this, I had not bothered to think about. Now I have.

Because believe it or not there are people that have managed to live life without carrying an ID. And it isn't the providing ID that is the problem. It is laws specifically designed to limit the types of ID that can be used. In Ohio you can use the following

Current and valid photo identification, defined as a document that shows the individual’s name and current
address, includes a photograph, includes an expiration date that has not passed, and was issued by the U.S. government or the state of Ohio
Current utility bill
Current bank statement
Current government check, paycheck or other government document

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

That too is why I continue to visit ATS, learn something new everyday.

Im completely for removing voter fraud, the problem is Government rushes in with out thinking things through.

It all sounds good on paper until you start to implement it, what is even MORE disturbing is the reports that it was the true intention of the Laws in the first place.

Limiting rightful voters as well as fraudulent one, as it would disproportionately effect one party...

I just don't like the fact that they want a brand spanking new ID card to vote. Why can't it be the just driver's license?

Originally posted by Vrill
This is a serious question to all my lefty hippy ATS brethren: why are voter ID rules bad?

Because these current voter id laws are not in response to any voter fraud...in fact most of the states trying to pass these laws don't have any verifiable in person voter fraud cases.

It is a tactic to try to supress the vote in large democratic states. And to try to rush something like this through 3 months before a Presidential election is just ridiculous and is just screaming voter suppression.

If they really want reform..do it at a national level...distribute "voter" cards for free at birth or whenever one is requested...and set a target date of 5-10 years in the future so everyone has plenty of time to get what they need.


Answer me this...does this sound like a reasonable scenario...an elderly low income person who has voted for 50 years without an id, has no drivers license, doesn't hear about this new "law" because it's still up in the air 3 months from the election, walks to their polling place to place their vote like they have done for 50 years...and is told "No...you need an ID".

Now tell me...is that fair?

Originally posted by Vrill
This is a serious question to all my lefty hippy ATS brethren: why are voter ID rules bad?

I've asked the same question. And their response makes sense to me, personally. A LOT of people dont have ID, especially older voters.

for example:

Having a driver's license or photo identification card is commonplace for most Americans, but about 11 percent of adult citizens — more than 21 million people — lack a valid, government-issued photo ID,

www.aarp.org...

Now, if the Government wants to supply everyone without an ID with one, at no cost, that would likely remedy the situation. But saying they cant vote can obviously be interpreted as discrimination.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by Vrill
This is a serious question to all my lefty hippy ATS brethren: why are voter ID rules bad?

I've asked the same question. And their response makes sense to me, personally. A LOT of people dont have ID, especially older voters.

for example:

Having a driver's license or photo identification card is commonplace for most Americans, but about 11 percent of adult citizens — more than 21 million people — lack a valid, government-issued photo ID,

www.aarp.org...

Now, if the Government wants to supply everyone without an ID with one, at no cost, that would likely remedy the situation. But saying they cant vote can obviously be interpreted as discrimination.

That is just the tip of it with the elderly. There are many that have no birth certificate or if they do, they have no idea where or who to communicate with to get a copy of it. Let alone the fees associated with getting that copy researched copied and sent to them.

Originally posted by Vrill
This is a serious question to all my lefty hippy ATS brethren: why are voter ID rules bad?

they're not...the government should allow all voters that voted in the last election to vote, THEN ON THE ODD YEAR send out to all the people that voted, government validated ID's
voting is a RIGHT...a drivers license is a GRANTED PRIVILEDGE
the government should be able to prove that a person IS NOT a citizen, before it can refuse the vote of that citizen. this puts the pressure on ANY political/governmental party, and/or political/governmental person to prove a crime was committed, AND NOT on the voter to prove his innocence.

Wisconsin enacted voter id laws then started closing down Department of Motor Vehicle offices in primary democrat neighborhoods. These laws are designed to suppress voter rights. They will argue its because of voter fraud but most states that are doing this have no voter fraud cases.

Earlier this year, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker became one of the many GOP governors to sign a law disenfranchising voters who do not have a photo ID — a law that disproportionately affects elderly voters, young voters, students, minorities and low-income voters. Having disenfranchised tens of thousands of Wisconsin voters, Walker is now making it harder for many of these voters to obtain the ID they need to regain their right to participate in the next election:

Gov. Scott Walker’s administration is working on finalizing a plan to close as many as 10 offices where people can obtain driver’s licenses in order to expand hours elsewhere and come into compliance with new requirements that voters show photo IDs at the polls.

One Democratic lawmaker said Friday it appeared the decisions were based on politics, with the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts. [...] Rep. Andy Jorgensen, D-Fort Atkinson, called on the state Department of Transportation to reconsider its plants to close the Fort Atkinson DMV center. The department plans to expand by four hours a week the hours of a center about 30 minutes away in Watertown. [...]

link

one more thing!!

(Reuters) - A Wisconsin official has discouraged state workers from volunteering information about free IDs available under a controversial voter identification law that critics complain is designed to suppress votes, a memo leaked on Wednesday showed.

The memo, provided to the press by Democratic State Senator Jon Erpenbach, was likely to fan concerns among critics of the Republican-backed law that it aimed to suppress votes of thousands of otherwise eligible Wisconsin voters.

In the memo, a top aide in the state transportation department told staffers in the motor vehicle department, which is responsible for issuing the free IDs, to "refrain from offering" them to customers who do not specifically ask for them.

link

reply to post by benrl

That too is why I continue to visit ATS, learn something new everyday. Im completely for removing voter fraud, the problem is Government rushes in with out thinking things through. It all sounds good on paper until you start to implement it, what is even MORE disturbing is the reports that it was the true intention of the Laws in the first place. Limiting rightful voters as well as fraudulent one, as it would disproportionately effect one party...

Agreed.

There is one other problem with it, and you introduce it here: there is quite literally NO VOTER FRAUD to remove.

Pennsylvania's bill is designed to disenfranchise perhaps 8% of the eligible voters in order to eliminate voter fraud that the bills authors admit does not exist. There has never been a case of voter fraud in Pennsylvania. NEVER. Not one.

The sole purpose of these Bills is to polarize the electorate around the question in the original post: "what is wrong with eliminating voter fraud?" while removing as many of the opposing party's likely voters as possible.

The sponsors know there is no fraud, but it suits their agenda to raise the specter of massive fraud.

For further information read: Policy Brief on the Truth About "Voter Fraud"

Also read the Wikipedia article on Electoral Fraud for a good overview of the actual types of electoral fraud. Especially review the section on 'Disenfranchisement'.

reply to post by jimmyx

the government should be able to prove that a person IS NOT a citizen, before it can refuse the vote of that citizen.

Excellent point. Innocent until proven guilty.

Offer people the opportunity to purchase a an affordable voter id card from the Federal Government, and those who choose not to can pay a penalty tax at the end of the year.

Originally posted by itssomethingyoudid
Offer people the opportunity to purchase a an affordable voter id card from the Federal Government, and those who choose not to can pay a penalty tax at the end of the year.

this idea and many others prove that this is a false problem, and clearly shows the republicans are actively engaged in voter suppression...where are all the freedom-loving constitutionalists on this, the people that keep declaring RIGHTS are being taken away?...hello!!...this is a pretty big RIGHT being taken away by the republicans, and yet, supposedly, its Obama providing healthcare that is the big "rights" problem...logic sometimes has to poke you in the nose before it is recognized, it doesn' take a lefty elitist to see it.

reply to post by itssomethingyoudid


No absolutely not. You cannot make someone purchase an ID to vote, it is a violation of our inherent right. Either the ID has to be free and easily accessible to all or you can not require it.

I had read someplace (can't remember where though) that some states wanting to have voters show ID could get a voter ID card at no cost to them. Would it still be bad if this was the case is all states? In my state we have always had to show ID. My state also had no charges of voter fraud until they really got to looking and seen it was all over the place. Just because there is no charge does not mean it doesn't happen. Hell, just not long ago there was a vote buying scandal in the eastern part of my state (Ky.). All local election stuff but still, it happens. It had went on for years there bot no one said a think and no charges where filed for a very long time.

Personally I honestly can not see h0ow showing an ID is challenging to anyone. You can get a state ID (in the states I have lived in anyway) that is not a driers lic.and it only costs a few bucks. I was homeless for a while in my younger days and still had no trouble getting one. With it I was able to cash a check, prove my age, and vote. Never was one for boobie bars but I'm sure they would have taken it too. I can understand to a point though that some poor people might have a problem acquiring the fee in some states so maybe the idea that I had read about, a free to them voter ID card would solve the problem. The ID crowd gets there little rule and people get a free ID that being gov issued would be legal to use for other ID problems.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
reply to post by itssomethingyoudid

 

No absolutely not. You cannot make someone purchase an ID to vote, it is a violation of our inherent right. Either the ID has to be free and easily accessible to all or you can not require it.

Make it free (to the recipient, as it would have to be paid for via taxation). This invalidates any argument against voter ID.

/TOA