Is it possible Holmes chemically lobotomized himself?

Ill start off by saying this is purely speculation. I was not there nor do i know of any physical evidence that substantiates my claim.

Holmes' courtroom appearance was very telling. He appeared to have a great deal of difficulty concentrating. He also looked as if he was unaware of what was going on. I am no expert in lobotomies nor have i seen a subject of a lobotomy but I have done some reading on the issue and it does appear to be symptomatic.

I personally don't know how one would acheive this state as im not sure a severe OD on Thorazine could create a lasting lobotomy.

However wouldn't that explain the lack of suicide or death by cop seen in so many mass shootings? Does it not also explain how police apprehended him with no struggle? The kid was in a neuroscience program I think it stands to reason that it is a possibility

reply to post by conspiracyrus


From what I know, they don't move. They are more like in a vegetated state. So in answer to your question, no. Because if he were, he would not be able to do all those things.

Plan the attack
Create the Apartment Booby Trap
Show up at the theater
Attack and terrorize several innocent people

You can't do that if you have been lobotomized.

or maybe his lawyer told him to act like a nut quack

He may have been experimenting on himself or at least struggling with his perceptions of reality with the knowledge he inherited through his studies. I don't think he lobotomized himself though. There are a lot of possible explanations to his actions.. Unfortunately we'll probably never know the full story.

I personally suspect he was just exhausted and may still be in the midst of a psychotic break where he's having trouble discerning what's real and what isn't ..

But even exhaustion alone could explain that.. The attacks took place after midnight and he was probably up all day rigging his apartment complex.. I seriously doubt he's been sleeping like a baby after his arrest either.. immediately dealing with the booking process, repeated attempts at interrogation, solitary confinement and then meeting with his public defender prior to an early morning monday hearing.. not exactly conducive to sleep.

Plus he also allegedly medicated himself pretty heavily right before this event..

So if you think about it .. that's a few days potentially with zero sleep most likely..

And him not killing himself puts him in line with being a sociopath .. he simply doesn't care about people and is only interested in the attention/fame of it all .. I don't think he was completely finished with what he set out to do honestly but because the police station was right there and police were also near by directing traffic.. they descended on him quickly.. the shootings only lasted about 2 minutes and police were on him shortly after that..

I think he honestly wants to see the toll he took.. rather than be dead .. plus who knows, with his studies.. he literally believes you can change the past .. maybe this is a mad experiment of his to test that theory

reply to post by skepticconwatcher


I dont mean to say that he did it prior to the incident. If he had say taken a large amount of thorazine possibly just before or directly after the shooting.

Dont you think its possible he substituted suicide with brain death?

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by skepticconwatcher

 

I dont mean to say that he did it prior to the incident. If he had say taken a large amount of thorazine possibly just before or directly after the shooting.

Okay, but he would have to have done this Thurs/Fri as he attacked those people right after midnight.

So, Friday 12:30 am . That's all day Friday. All day Saturday. All day Sunday. Then about 9 hours on Monday we see him.

Would it still be in his system ?

You only have to watch the eyes to see he was drugged up, whether by himself beforehand or the authorities before court, but i've seen enough space cadets and sleep deprivation to spot the differences, notice the prosecutor would neithe r confirm or deny thay had, so for me thats also telling. I think they did it to him, cant have him spouting off in court. Also have you seen the other threads with people saying the door was opened by someone from inside ?

This is not going to be a straightforward case, no matter how its dressed up.

reply to post by miniatus


Still exhausted after what? 4 days?
If he wasnt finished why just hang out and wait to be arrested?
And i could be wrong but sociopaths and psycopaths are pretty different and id think it odd that a sociopath had a psychotic break

Thoughts?

reply to post by skepticconwatcher


Its possible i guess. Like i said im just speculating. Im not even sure if its possible to permanantly chemically lobotomize yourself

You guys are such noobs. It's obviously the effects from the drugs the FBI/CIA gave him in for the interrogation

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by miniatus

 

Still exhausted after what? 4 days?
If he wasnt finished why just hang out and wait to be arrested?
And i could be wrong but sociopaths and psycopaths are pretty different and id think it odd that a sociopath had a psychotic break

Thoughts?

I don't think he was "hanging out" waiting to be arrested.. the cops were near by, they responded in the 2 minutes he was shooting.. they apprehended him pretty fast... I don't think he expected they would arrive THAT fast.. and even if he did anticipate that then perhaps his goal was to get caught.. reports say he told police he was the joker ( that went beyond rumor to an actual statement ) .. the joker allowed himself to be caught intentionally, the joker wouldn't talk to the police .. only "the batman".. who knows what's going on in that mind of his.. this could also be some psychotic fantasy in his head.

And yes 4 days without sleep would be exhausting.. don't you think? .. I don't know many who can go four days.. but yes you're right .. I should have said psychopath

reply to post by NotWhatYouThink


Yes I must be a newb for exploring a logical avenue of discussion.

as you personally witnessed authorities drugging and interrogating Holmes.

reply to post by miniatus


You do have a point it is very possible that he was amidst a psychotic break. And we probably will never know if he had slept at all whilst confined. But he had been ordering the supplies for a few months right? He also built explosive devices during this period. If his psychosis was that severe that he was amidst a psychotic break for so long surely someone would have noticed? Then again maybe no one did

Also didnt he have enough time to remove his body armor? Or am i confusing some of the initial reports?

reply to post by FFS4000


I agree he is definitely out in space. Time will tell if his current state will be permanent. And you bring up a good point. If he is a patsy lobotomy would be a great way to shut him up while still keeping an obvious culprit

Originally posted by FFS4000
You only have to watch the eyes to see he was drugged up, whether by himself beforehand or the authorities before court, but i've seen enough space cadets and sleep deprivation to spot the differences, notice the prosecutor would neithe r confirm or deny thay had, so for me thats also telling. I think they did it to him, cant have him spouting off in court. Also have you seen the other threads with people saying the door was opened by someone from inside ?

This is not going to be a straightforward case, no matter how its dressed up.

The prosecution said they didn't know if he had been medicated but that they couldn't confirm it even if they did know.. that's because the judge placed a gag order on the case.. nothing can be said about it until the trial begins.. despite what people think, that is absolutely not uncommon in high profile cases like this.

It's possible he was doped up, I don't think so though.. I don't see any reason why they would.. but I have been exhausted myself and the way he looks is pretty much how I have been in our monday morning project meetings after a long weekend of clubbing =)

Regardless.. it's all speculation .. I still think exhaustion is most likely..

Originally posted by NotWhatYouThink
You guys are such noobs. It's obviously the effects from the drugs the FBI/CIA gave him in for the interrogation

Coming from the guy with 5 posts and being a member here a week.

Or maybe you're being sarcastic..

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by miniatus

 

You do have a point it is very possible that he was amidst a psychotic break. And we probably will never know if he had slept at all whilst confined. But he had been ordering the supplies for a few months right? He also built explosive devices during this period. If his psychosis was that severe that he was amidst a psychotic break for so long surely someone would have noticed? Then again maybe no one did

Also didnt he have enough time to remove his body armor? Or am i confusing some of the initial reports?

Mental breakdowns can go on for quite a while.. and will often spiral out of control the longer they go unchecked.. from what I understand, most of this started after he failed an oral exam .. he bought his shot gun hours later and dropped out of the course a few days after.. If this career in neuroscience was a big dream, which he did seem to be chasing since highschool.. and he failed at it without having any sort of fallback.. huge debt from loans probably also .. it would be enough to take someone already fragile and potentially push them over the edge.. I mean think about it? .. you're failing at your dreams .. something you've been working on for several years..

The police reports I've read said he was still in his armor when they arrived and that his gas mask was in hand.. I haven't read anything other than that personally

reply to post by miniatus


No youre absolutely right. I can certainly see his failure in school starting his episode. But a psychotic break lasting a couple months is pretty severe. I think someone should have noticed... Then again not all psychos are going to fling feces at passers by :p

I just see so much similarity between his demeanor in court and the look of people entirely unaware of their surroundings.

Not to mention his lack of suicide attempt. The fact that he was detained without incident is simply odd. I'd like to think he substituted his suicide with severe brain damage.