We Must Be Better...Utopia In THIS Generation

I have great hopes and aspirations for my life, that I believe will come to pass, but my visions are not just about me. What makes my vision so great, is that I envision incredible changes to the world, that I will be a part of. If only because of the extent of my vision, I feel a sense of responsibility that I must develop this vision. I cannot simply hope for or dream of some utopia, that I leave to some vague suggestions that amount to being very abstract. I need to be practical, and I need to thoroughly develop my Utopia. It cannot exist in the world if it has not even been developed in the mind.

There are certain individuals who I consider to be the greatest philosophers, the greatest thinkers, of all time. As I read them, I am in awe. They truly get it. They understand what I understand. They have the vision that I have. And yet, these people made their impact about a generation ago. They generally spoke of the incredible exponential evolution in consciousness and intelligence that was beginning in their time, but would continue to increase to almost incomprehensible heights. The thought then occurs to me...I must be better. Not only me, but all others who share this vision, who truly strive for Utopia. A part of my mind then comes to the surface, saying how absurd, how arrogant. To think that you could do a BETTER job than these people, who were among the greatest minds of all time. And yet Utopia has not come. This generation must be better.

We are fortunate, because in recent history their have been brilliant minds, practically unparalleled throughout all time. They have left us the keys. They have given us a broad range of perspective and knowledge, which can be used to push the envelop into Utopia. But we cannot, I cannot, strive to be like them. I must be better. We must do better. We cannot just have these ideas that the previous generations has developed. We must take them as seeds, and develop them in ways that extend far beyond what they have given us. We must develop a system for the mind and society that is so brilliant, incorporating such a vast range of knowledge, and so thoroughly developed that it can be easily packaged for inspiration of the masses and implemented into an actual society.

We cannot even be within the range of what could be considered normal. We must raise the bar to unheard of heights, to the point where our proposals are undeniably brilliant and well-thought out. Where the people upon hearing it will be so inspired that they will want it as no generation has ever wanted anything before. This inspiration, the intellectual achievements, and the thorough development of it all and its implementation will change the world forever. We can make Utopia a reality, in this generation.

Well you certainly get my thumbs up in general!


I like the way that you think, but I'd be a bit skeptical on whether I'd like a whole generation to think like that.
There's an air of over-confidence, fanaticism or fascism about it.

But I think for you personally - stick to that.

We need the new generation to rise above mediocrity.

But for which social order - science, or religion?

You can't rise to Utopia if you don't know the paths?

Originally posted by halfoldman
Well you certainly get my thumbs up in general!

I like the way that you think, but I'd be a bit skeptical on whether I'd like a whole generation to think like that.
There's an air of over-confidence, fanaticism or fascism about it.

But I think for you personally - stick to that.

We need the new generation to rise above mediocrity.

But for which social order - science, or religion?

You can't rise to Utopia if you don't know the paths?

edit on 25-7-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

One of my basic aims is to create something of a classification system, where various ideas and viewpoints can be objectively placed and developed. The idea here is not an absolute truth or dogma, but rather a context where anything and everything can be explored and developed.

My personal aim is essentially philosophy, but ultimately I want to try to bring in as wide of a range of knowledge as possible, from religion to science to everything in-between, to create a coherent system that unifies and brings together this whole range, and has a freedom for personal exploration. I want to develop a system that removes dichotomies such as religion and science, and allows both ends of these spectrums to be developed in their fullness. One of the basic premises is an open-endedness, where I hope to develop a basic SYSTEM, rather than absolute truth. From this system anyone with any expertise can develop it in whatever way they want, and it can all be worked into the system. As I say, it needs to be open-ended, making logical suggestions within a system, always open to be improved upon, rather than being a particular ideology. I am more proud of my SYSTEM of looking at things, and I believe that to be more important, than any particular conclusions I reach.

You better be willing to fight for it.

Otherwise you might as well give up now.

reply to post by TheJourney

Fair enough, but isn't that what we have already?

How does your system then differ, or in what ways would it differ to what we have?

Utopia will never become a reality if an explanation is needed to sway. People need to figure it out themselves. They can't be fed it. It's like building the tower in dubai without proper foundations. It'll just crumble with the next maelstrom. One can only wait. Patience and a little nudge in the right direction will go the distance. Patience and time. We have all the time in the world.

The greatest crimes of human history are made possible by the most colorless human beings. They are the careerists. The bureaucrats. The cynics. They do the little chores that make vast, complicated systems of exploitation and death a reality. They collect and read the personal data gathered on tens of millions of us by the security and surveillance state. They keep the accounts of ExxonMobil, BP and Goldman Sachs. They build or pilot aerial drones. They work in corporate advertising and public relations. They issue the forms. They process the papers. They deny food stamps to some and unemployment benefits or medical coverage to others. They enforce the laws and the regulations.

And they do not ask questions.

step one would be to get rid of the popular mindset that utopia is impossible
I mean how are you going to make something work when the people involved think its impossible
so I think that would be the first hill to cross over

having a very well planned and designed utopian model would definitely make more people believe that
utopia is possible

so make a model that addresses possible problems and solutions for different scenarios
maybe even run simulations for trade, logistics, etc etc pretty much on anything possible

good luck, I would be very interested to see what you can achieve

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
You better be willing to fight for it.

Otherwise you might as well give up now.

The most dangerous force in the industrialized world does not come from those who wield radical creeds, whether Islamic radicalism or Christian fundamentalism, but from legions of faceless bureaucrats who claw their way up layered corporate and governmental machines. They serve any system that meets their pathetic quota of needs.

Let me argue something then that I'm not so sure of - the only way people would ever recognize an Utopian system is if they had a comparative Dystopia.

Without a comparative hell, there would be no heaven.

reply to post by TheJourney

"we can make a utopia a reality , in this generation"

no you can't
a utopia can not and will not ever exist.



this is the problem with stateists.
some intellectual always thinks they are smarter than the last tyrant, and they could have done it better.

As 2Isee3d touched upon, a theoretical 'utopia' becomes a reality starting from the individual transformation. You would have to have all the members of a society operating from an inherent perspective of goodwill and understanding, of tolerance and spiritual wisdom.

I'm confused at what about my post implied statism...

My Utopian society is 'libertarian,' in the sense of absolute freedom. What I am speaking of is very multi-faceted, so I of course cannot succinctly talk about it all, or really go into much depth, but to briefly touch on the social aspects of my model for Utopia...

The Internet would be utilized to help facilitate interactions and various social linkages designed based on shared ideals, or preferences. A classification system would be used whereby everyone could be linked together based on compatibility, so each individual could have their own personal utopia. The idea here is not 'choosing' one society, but rather a flow throughout life where everyone continually designs their own life-experience, and the system helps link people together for ideal experiences moment to moment. This would, actually, be the most radical experiment in freedom ever, as it would be entirely decentralized and meant to empower every individual's preferences. Certainly not statist.

Another aspect of it, at least according to my taste, is the empowerment of individual's as something like life-actors. People would be able to experiment with different viewpoints, and play different roles, and be linked with others to 'act it out.' People would be able to design their own perfect experiences they would like to have, and some sort of database would link together compatible people who desired the same thing so they would be able to do virtually anything they wanted, with the perfect people. There would be perfect freedom to design ideologies, experiences, and roles, and then be able to 'act them out' or experience them. This freedom would create an environment where one was not bound to any one of these things, and when you combine this with a free sharing of information and results, you get an incredible rate of evolution and movement towards perfection on an individual and collective scale.

Originally posted by halfoldman
Let me argue something then that I'm not so sure of - the only way people would ever recognize an Utopian system is if they had a comparative Dystopia.

Without a comparative hell, there would be no heaven.

And, as we see from Huxley's Brave New World, some will always view the hell as heaven, and vice versa. One man's poison will inevitably be another man's wine.

There are any number of inherent difficulties in creating a utopia, not least of all, the individuals perception of what shape perfection takes. And, once that utopian 'ideal' has to be forced onto others, or others made to conform, it loses it's universality.

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by halfoldman
Let me argue something then that I'm not so sure of - the only way people would ever recognize an Utopian system is if they had a comparative Dystopia.

Without a comparative hell, there would be no heaven.

And, as we see from Huxley's Brave New World, some will always view the hell as heaven, and vice versa. One man's poison will inevitably be another man's wine.

There are any number of inherent difficulties in creating a utopia, not least of all, the individuals perception of what shape perfection takes. And, once that utopian 'ideal' has to be forced onto others, or others made to conform, it loses it's universality.

To me, individual preferences are central to any utopia. I briefly explained in my previous post my system, in terms of its social aspects, which is built around the idea of facilitating personal utopia's, so to speak.

Originally posted by TheJourney
To me, individual preferences are central to any utopia. I briefly explained in my previous post my system, in terms of its social aspects, which is built around the idea of facilitating personal utopia's, so to speak.

Given the freedom of all to self-actualise a certain type of utopia could be achieved, I agree. However, some will always seek to buck the trend, and enlightenment is no guarentee of 'goodness'. What does one do to counter criminality? And by extension, how does one define criminality? Inherent in any concept of utopia is the need to monitor the behaviour of the whole in order to be witness to any deviation. I personally feel that any utopia therefore needs to be worked on a cellular basis, small self-supporting groups that operate autonomously, but that have a representative that interacts with other groups, cells within cells so to speak. Otherwise, at some point, and inevitably, the utopia becomes a heaven for some, and a confinement in hell for others. That is, while I can see it working in the short term, for a long term evolution to take place, one that lasts, there has to be some allowance made for deviation, especially willfull deviation, the need to be different in the extreme.

reply to post by TheJourney


I do understand where you are coming from. I feel that I am in the same boat. Believe that anything is possible with God. Purify the mind, body, and spirit. Listen to the voice in the silence. Be patient.

reply to post by bjax9er


For as long as you believe a Utopia cannot exist it will not. If you cannot believe in miracles, they will not exist. If you don't believe that you are one with God that oneness will not exist.

Originally posted by 2Isee3rd
Utopia will never become a reality if an explanation is needed to sway. People need to figure it out themselves. They can't be fed it. It's like building the tower in dubai without proper foundations. It'll just crumble with the next maelstrom. One can only wait. Patience and a little nudge in the right direction will go the distance. Patience and time. We have all the time in the world.

I would only change the last sentence. We have all the time in this universe/reality. Even if we made this place and utopia the work would not be done. Or would it? One can only change yourself and try to influence others to change but people who are caught up in duality/conditioning and ego are hard to change their minds. But the idea must take root in the mind of the people. Then change happens like the Berlin wall. I wonder when next level of change will come. It might be closer than we think. We can always hope. Even if it is not comming now do what you feel you want to make the difference. Maybe your actions that you might not think is much will make all the difference in 100 years.

Utopia can never exist; it's just a thought, maybe even a theory. Tons of books have been written, both on Utopias and Dystopias. Have you ever read Walden 2 by Skinner? That was his version of Utopia, but I wouldn't really call it that.

Utopia literally means, "no place". If you think about it, its absolutely right. My Utopia will always be different from someone elses.

Utopia is really just for that individual because I believe you'd be hard pressed to find another person whos Utopia was identical to yours.

Still...........it is nice to think of, what if?