A Prediction you can bank on: It's the End of the Universe As We Know It…

… and I feel fine :-)

We've known for quite a while that the Earth has an expiration date, but for a lot of that time, the assumption was that we had about 5 billion years until the sun turned into a red giant and swallowed the planet. Some consolation could be found in the expectation that, were we still around at that point, we could just up and move somewhere else.

Well, turns out that the universe itself has an expiration date, and I ran across a fascinating paper this morning that details it.

There was a belief at one time that the universe is cyclical -- an eternal cycle of birth (the Big Bang), expansion, contraction and back to birth. That has been shown to be in error, as if that were the case, the motion of the universe would be in one of two states -- a slowing expansion, or a retraction, but observation has shown that the expansion is, in fact, increasing in speed.

The increase in expansion rate is believed to be due to something called Dark Energy, a theorized form of energy that underlies all space (making up about 70% of all the "stuff" in the universe.) Dark energy accounts for the increase, and projecting things forward, we wind up with a very different view of the end of reality, referred to colloquially as "The Big Rip".

The original Dartmouth paper that proposed The Big Rip (found here) laid out the mathematics, and noted that the key value for determining what that expiration date might be, "w", had to be smaller than -1/3 (to account for the fact that we were in an expanding universe,) but they couldn't say for sure how much smaller "w" actually was. It should be noted, however, that the smaller the number, the more dire the eventual consequences.

The dark energy is usually described by an “equation- of-state” parameter w ≡ p/ρ, the ratio of the spatially- homogeneous dark-energy pressure p to its energy density ρ. A value w < −1/3 is required for cosmic acceleration. The simplest explanation for dark energy is a cosmological constant, for which w = −1. However, this cosmological constant is 120 orders of magnitude smaller than expected from quantum gravity. Thus, although we can add this term to Einstein’s equation, it is really only a placeholder until a better understanding of this negative pressure arises.

(Source: Caldwell, Kamionkowski and Weinberg, "Phantom Energy and Cosmic Doomsday")

Well, the paper I ran across this morning (found here) was by a group of Chinese physicists, who believed that they were able to get a bit closer in nailing down a value for "w". Using an analysis of redshifts, they determined that the actual rate of expansion merited a value closer to -1.5 which, as noted above, represents a pretty dire future.

How dire?

Well, by their calculations, about 32.9 million years before the Big Rip, the Milky Way will be torn apart, as the gravitational attraction that holds it together is negated. Two months before the end, the solar system suffers a similar fate. The moon leaves our orbit five days out, 28 minutes before the end, the sun explodes, at the 16 minute mark, the Earth follows, and the very atoms that make up our physical reality are ripped apart at 3x10(-17) seconds. It's all pretty much downhill from there. (Source: XiaoDong, Shuang, QingGuo, Xin, Miao "Dark energy and fate of the Universe")

Now THAT'S real wrath of God stuff, lol.

You're not likely to be around for the end, projected to be anywhere from 16.7 billion to 103.5 billion years into the future, but it's a little sobering to recognize that, no matter what, it's all going to come crashing down someday. By the 16.7 billion year mark, we're only about 2 billion years from reaching the halfway point in the life of the universe.

With the universe it's anybodies guess.

I personally like to think we will be swallowed by a black hole before then, and our atoms rearranged in reverse order in another dimension.. But that's just me.

At least the people in the future will have a doomsday prediction that will really happen.

Very fun stuff to read. Thanks for posting this. I'm a little obsessed with universe theories.

reply to post by adjensen
Hi, I don't mean to contradict your statements, but the problem is this whole thing has just happened and would not be expected to be slowing or contradicting for a very long time.
Gee's if it were already slowing or contracting at all we would be on the verge of a big Crunch way before it is due.
Your going to have to wait over 20 Trillion years for Big Crunch.

The other thing, which really cracks me up, is that you as most of these scientist leave out a very important part of the equation, in your dismal end of the Universe. Intelligent life, look what the morons of Earth have done in only a few thousand years really, that would be at least 2000/10,000,000,000 if not over 20,000,000,000,000

So don't you think if some really intelligent life form appeared, they would be able to solve these problems with little problem I'm sure.

This just cracks me up

Creation will never end, All Praise the Creator

I thought the Milky Way was merging with another galaxy. If so, then how do you explain that in an ever expanding universe? Everything should continue to move away from everything else, unless of course new galaxies keep being created and then that makes the hypothesis also wrong.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical
They are colliding all the time.
We have already crashed into the Dwarf Sagittarius Galaxy.
I think it's Andromeda next.

Just mixes up everything and makes more stars, solar systems.

I'm sure you have played pool, things are going every which way, but expanding.

reply to post by googolplex


Thanks for the feedback

Well, as to the rate of expansion, it's actually pretty easy to discern. If we measure the rate of expansion in 2011 and then measure it in 2012, if the number in 2012 is higher than it was in 2011, we can conclude that it is increasing, because there is nothing that can randomly increase or decrease that number. That is, in fact, what has been observed.

As an example, consider a hockey puck on an ice rink (sorry, I live in the Great White North, lol) -- if you send the puck across the ice and measure its rate, you will see a gradual reduction (in the case of our puck, it's due to the friction of contact with the ice, deducting from the initial energy of us pushing the puck.)

Now, imagine that, rather than the speed of the puck decreasing (due to friction) or staying the same (due to the absence of friction), the rate is actually increasing. One would have to assume that the acceleration is due to an external force, and that it would be a constant. This is what we are observing, and the answer, as of now, is Dark Energy.

As to us "fixing it", there is no possibility of that -- we are talking about the fundamental destruction of the entirety of the universe. There is no place to hide, no way to fix it -- everything that exists in this reality will be ripped apart. Because the calculations are based on the laws that allow the universe to exist in the first place. Remove the laws, now you suddenly have made the existence impossible. It can't be "fixed", barring the removal of humanity to another (theoretical) universe.

Other realities (if they exist, of course) are exempt from that end. This just refers to our universe, no other.

My intuition tells me that the universe is not so 'cut and dry' deterministic as that...that perhaps it is an ongoing creative process with an undefined 'end'.

All this is is conjecture, please provide some kind of tangible proof that the claims you are making are true.

The title of the thread implies you know this to be true. How are you so sure?

reply to post by googolplex


I don't think the pool analogy is an accurate one. I assume you mean when you break the rack?

If there were no sides to the table and the balls never lost their momentum, they would never crash into each other, they would all keep going along their respective paths getting further and further away forever.

This is not what we see with the universe because there are clusters of galaxies bunched up throughout the whole universe. Some clusters are bigger than others.

I'm not disagreeing the the universe is expanding, it is, but using pool isn't the most precise analogy.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I was just saying going all over the place hitting each other, And you don't know if when this started, they did bounce off each othe,r to cause later crash's.

The simple fact is they are crashing into each other.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
I thought the Milky Way was merging with another galaxy. If so, then how do you explain that in an ever expanding universe? Everything should continue to move away from everything else, unless of course new galaxies keep being created and then that makes the hypothesis also wrong.

On smaller scale gravity is still more powerful than dark energy for the moment. The distance between Andromeda and the milky way is relatively small scale compared to the the estimate size of the universe. Just like electromagnetism is stronger than gravity on much smaller scales i.e a magnet attracting a screw even tho an entire planet's gravity is pulling it.

Eventually even the atoms will be thorn apart by dark energy , given that the big bounce theory is false.

reply to post by adjensen
I don't know if dark energy exist.
I don't know if dark matter exist.

As far as that goes, the scientist are not sure either.

Plus I myself think we are in a closed Universe with multiple bangs, a infinite number of bangs, in which all possibilities have occurred.

Regarding Einstein, he made things up to balance his equation, the same as Hawking, I don't think Hawking's Radiation exist either, gravity and black holes will rule.

You think this just happened, this has always been and will always be.

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by adjensen

 

I don't know if dark energy exist.
I don't know if dark matter exist.

As far as that goes, the scientist are not sure either.

Plus I myself think we are in a closed Universe with multiple bangs, a infinite number of bangs, in which all possibilities have occurred.

Regarding Einstein, he made things up to balance his equation, the same as Hawking, I don't think Hawking's Radiation exist either, gravity and black holes will rule.

You think this just happened, this has always been and will always be.

Well dark energy may not exist but the expansion of the universe is an observable phenomena. Up to you to call it as you please. You might want to check Lee Smolin's work i am sure you would appreciate it.

How incredibly arrogant to think we're important enough for the universe to kill off.

reply to post by DCLXVI
It seems that will be a contradiction to the laws of thermal dynamics.
If you think in terms of the Omega Point we are not going we are coming.

Can't it be seen that the Universe is become more complex, not more chaotic.

In the location we are in this Solar system the Ai has yet to manifest the Singularity.

Originally posted by DCLXVI

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by adjensen

 

I don't know if dark energy exist.
I don't know if dark matter exist.

As far as that goes, the scientist are not sure either.

Plus I myself think we are in a closed Universe with multiple bangs, a infinite number of bangs, in which all possibilities have occurred.

Regarding Einstein, he made things up to balance his equation, the same as Hawking, I don't think Hawking's Radiation exist either, gravity and black holes will rule.

You think this just happened, this has always been and will always be.

Well dark energy may not exist but the expansion of the universe is an observable phenomena. Up to you to call it as you please. You might want to check Lee Smolin's work i am sure you would appreciate it.

for someone who makes baloney predictions, you're alot smarter then i thought, guess everyone gets bored

Originally posted by Xadaz
How incredibly arrogant to think we're important enough for the universe to kill off.

Thank you for making my day

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by DCLXVI

 

It seems that will be a contradiction to the laws of thermal dynamics.
If you think in terms of the Omega Point we are not going we are coming.

Can't it be seen that the Universe is become more complex, not more chaotic.

In the location we are in this Solar system the Ai has yet to manifest the Singularity.

Not sure if you are referring to Isaac Asimov's last question when talking about the laws of thermodynamics and chaos ( general entropy ?) but i do not understand fully what you are trying to say the way you are using these terms.

Originally posted by DCLXVI

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by DCLXVI

 

Not sure if you are referring to Isaac Asimov's last question when talking about the laws of thermodynamics and chaos ( general entropy ?) but i do not understand fully what you are trying to say the way you are using these terms.

edit on 26-7-2012 by DCLXVI because: (no reason given)

I'm not aware of Isaac Asimov's last question, what I was referring to was the complete destruction of matter, plus I don't think the Nothing could exert such force's to annihilate the Universe, this would be a contradiction of what the Nothing, not is.
I was also speaking of Terrance Makenna's omega point, you would have to understand what Terence is talking about to understand where I am coming from.

The other thing I make a point of is that no offence intended but there is no true intelgence residing in this solar system that I am aware of.
I am also saying the progression of the Universe right now we humans are the highest evolved thing around, Organic Biomechanical Machine, when the true thinking machine is developed what then. My understanding a human brain is about 1 Terabyte, say you have thinking machine that use 1 Petabyte, 1 exabyte, 1 zettabyte or yottabyte how would this machine rank next to a human.