NSA whistle blowers warn that the US government can use surveillance to 'see into your life', page 3

reply to post by HomerinNC

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Consider this: every piece of data that is gathered will be misused by someone, somewhere, at some time. Do you want data related to you to be gathered if the above statement is even remotely true?

Consider also this: in the recent LinkedIn security breach, basically what was stolen was the email addresses and passwords for LinkedIn members. Seems harmless if you just change your password, right? Well...except all banks basically use email addresses as log ins, and that every usually uses the same password for everything. Now you are seeing the problem.

So, what has happened is that the data was gathered by LinkedIn, then breached. No word on it being misused that I know of....

But the point is, at some point this data will become available to someone that you will not want it made available to. this is the problem with collecting behavioral data on people. We don't like it when private industry does it (hello Google and Facebook). Why would we want the government to do it?

reply to post by jibeho

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Walmart doesn't use them. That is the biggest retailer. Plenty of stores don't. The only ones I can think of that do in my area are...CVS and Walgreens and Winn-Dixie.

I have heard of Von's in CA doing it too, but that was 10 or so years ago, so I'm sure more do now.

It's not so much that the government has -ongoing- surveillance on every individual. That's simply impractical in the extremes. Any such system, particularly one engineered by our bureaucracy, would become clogged with useless information.

Key types of activity are monitored.

For example - we run all TCNs through biometric databases, adding them if necessary, when they enroll to work on a compound. Their data is compared against that of known persons of interest and flagged if necessary.

We don't have black helicopters following each of them around or have teams prying into their facebook pages. It's too much data to sift through for no real gain.

But if a known AQ operative (or a member of some other extremist organization) tried to land a contractor job, he'd get flagged on enrollment (and he'd get taken to the ground if he tried to get in without going through that enrollment process).

That said - if someone tips off the teams that do investigations; those teams will follow those tips and start digging into a person's "E-profiles" (as well as other accessible information) to see if there's cause for concern.

These tips come from people - forum members/browsers, friends or acquaintances on facebook who get concerned about an individual's behavior... the list of potential informants is long.

That's not to say you need a society full of narcs... but if someone's making the hair on the back of your neck stand up - there's a reason for it. Chances are, your neighbor isn't inserting human IL4 genes into smallpox acquired from former soviet stockpiles.... but if something seems way off - I should hope you bring it to someone else's attention.

Or snoop around and get yourself injured/killed - bring the spot-light down.... something.

Studies like this scare the # out of me: www.fas.org...

100% mortality rates among those not vaccinated... 60% among those vaccinated.

And you can do it with stuff common in a highschool biology lab. How wonderful.

Such a strain would be hotter than Ebola - hotter than hell.... airborne transmission, contagion before visible symptoms, deliberate triggering of cytokine storms (jamming your immune system)... You want to see the human population virtually eliminated in a year - release something like that.

So... on one hand, we have to address two naive concepts.

It is incredibly naive to think that the actions of individuals or small groups will be of minimal consequence to the larger whole of society. We are lucky renegades are so fixated on explosives. Biological agents offer far, far more destructive potential.

On the other hand - it's incredibly naive to think that government surveillance of everything is going to fix the problems. Countries like Dubai have low crime rates because the surveillance is so heavy that crime literally doesn't pay - you almost always get caught. ... But that doesn't do much to prevent a crime - particularly someone bent on destruction - from occurring. It's easy to find clues in records and data when you have 'anchors' to your search. When you're trying to analyze data in real time and locate signs of nefarious activity, you're chasing ghosts and phantasms in a noisy storm of information.

So, the practical thing is to accept a bit of a compromise. I don't need to be making nuclear or biological weapons in my back yard - regardless of whether or not I plan to use them to hurt someone. It's impractical and entirely too empowering to give the government real-time surveillance over everything I do. So I accept that government agencies would be looking for purchasing trends that indicate I'm buying components for bombs or to start a crude level 4 hot lab in my garage... and be around to see what the deal is.

Will it flag situations that are innocuous from time to time? Of course. That's why you have people come in and apply common sense. Will some plans succeed in spoofing the detection system? Of course. No defense is entirely perfect. You simply have to match the defense effort to the threat and combine strategies that are both efficient and effective.

reply to post by nixie_nox

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Expect stuff like this to become more common - and to be pursued even more aggressively than government monitoring.

Agree to monitoring of your shopping habits and have reduced health insurance premiums.

Allow a program on your computer to track your online searches and visited websites to refine search results and present you with targeted advertisement deals.

Is it a bad thing, necessarily? I have no interest in seeing advertisements for manhood enlargement or the new car that starts at my average yearly income. Not ever going to buy those. But I do get interested when ebooks are on sale, computer programs, laboratory equipment, electronic supplies, and other such things are on sale. If I'm going to have someone watching me - may as well get advertisements that would actually interest me and possibly allow me to save money on purchases I was already likely to make somewhere, anyway.

Of course, there's always the potential for data misuse.... and I've yet to encounter a "toolbar" type plugin that doesn't annoy me and piss me right the # off. Most search providers are pretty good at throwing you targeted advertising without having to install obnoxious software on your computer.

reply to post by Aim64C

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Which is why when I sign up for those grocery store tags, I put down the wrong information.

reply to post by jarjun

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A form of "radio resonance imaging" can, over time, "see through walls" using satellite technology using several different segments of the electromagnetic spectrum.

It takes a long time to put together the data to do it - and it's really only useful if you want to try and map what might be in a suspicious industrial structure (depending upon what technology, exactly, you are using) - but it exists.

It's actually far more modest than many people seem to think.

Laser beams can be reflected off of windows and the frequency modulation and/or deflection can be used to generate an audio feed. Theoretically - any surface that would act as a conduit for sound is potentially useful in this regard.

As for manipulating brain waves... that one I'm not so sure about. There has been considerable research into how weak electromagnetic fields can be used to induce mood changes or trigger sensory perceptions - but none of it has been very promising in terms of mind control schemes - though you could potentially apply it as a subtle influence - it's not going to be much more than inducing heightened paranoia or reducing it.

The brain, thankfully, is a very complex architecture that is not so easily guiled by magnetic fields.

Originally posted by jarjun

Originally posted by truthermantwo
Satallites that see through walls
laser beams to record audio
psychotronics to manipulate brainwaves
lets see what else do they have?

Hey hey really? all of the above? .. mind providing me a link to the above said technologies so i can go through them too? .. Thanx

Satellites seeing through walls:
www.wired.com...

Laser listening device:
www.diylife.com...

Brian Waves:
www.popsci.com...

And this is just the stuff we know about. They are probably doing a lot more than checking what type of groceries we bought.

reply to post by Daughter2

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NSA using allien technology for psychic attacks.
Chris Thomas

www.youtube.com...

This is bigger than you think especially with the introduction of fusion centers, the US has become a police state.
Learn more about fusion centers. LINK

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