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Motives in the Aurora shooting

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posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Most of the threads about this tragedy have been inundated with a lot of back and forth over gun control... so I wanted to start a thread to put forth theories, if it concerns anyone else.


I know that I'm concerned but no one seems to be discussing the motives anywhere else, and I'm wondering if my fellow ATS members have opinions on the subject.

While our "knee jerk" reaction is "Lets just shoot him and be done with it.", the logical human side of us wants answers doesn't it? Otherwise.... the nice boy down the street could be the next shooter.



My heart does go out to the families of the victims. At best, we can all be thankful that more people weren't hurt, but its really a shame.....

Setting that aside, I know I am dying to know what drove a seemingly intelligent student, to not just go on a rampage, but plan it out.



My initial thought was "this guy is trying to make a statement", but I keep coming back to Charles Whitman. It's almost a near identical scenario. Normal, educated, maybe a little bit shy..... picking people off at random.....


So, now I'm thinking tumor.
With the whole world watching, I'm almost hoping there's a message here... but maybe he's just sick.... physically. Literally.


Anyone else?




posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by Forevever
 
If you look at the guy , he looks like nut job.
Anyone can go to school and become doctor, you can still be flake.

Look at that Commander in Canada that ran a whole massive air base, this dude was dressing up in women panties and I think he flew the Queen around in a airplane, might of been Thacher. I bet he had on some woman's panties then.

Look at all the judges, congressmen that are pedophiles gays, what right do these people have to decide anything for anyone, oh yea sure if you have enough money you can buy a JUdge. The lobbyist buy congress all day long.

People are more bad than good, they don't have to be sick.

The guy looked like a wack job, if he walked up to me with that grim on his face I would run, just think if he was you doctor, Yes Mr. jones I am going to operate on you brain today, I hope you like my stylish REd hair, I just had it done.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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i heard this guy was working on dna profiling for rfid chip delivery for his thesis & phd with a german company funny i heard on the internet not so long ago that siemans a german co had made 5 BILLION RFID chips then closed the factory down strange eh



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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yea i had the same thought as you about us being side tracked...

heres what i think happened

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Forevever
 


When I first heard about this happening and read that a 3 month old baby was injured....my knee jerk reaction was to promote the death penalty; after a while though with some gentle coaching by my fellow ATSers...I realized that keeping him alive and in prison is more of a punishment..because day in and day out...he will have to live with the knowledge of what he has done.

Also I think that he should be studied by experts who can (somehow) get inside this guys mind to find out his motives for causing all the horrible destruction.

Then I think too...that perhaps this young man is a (Manchurian Candidate) a sleeper assasian...en.wikipedia.org...

What exactly are his reasons for doing such an awful thing? I just don't know.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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Could just be a really crazy dude.

Or could be like those guys a few years back that were walking into churches and opening fire.
May be more here than is first apparent. We shall see (or maybe never know).



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by pirhanna
Could just be a really crazy dude.

Or could be like those guys a few years back that were walking into churches and opening fire.
May be more here than is first apparent. We shall see (or maybe never know).


I think that he is crazy...but what kind of crazy?

When were people walking into churches and firing guns? What year did that happen?



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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Until something comes out to show some solid proof of what he was thinking on all this, I'm going to hang my hat on my first impressions.

-Reason:

He got in trouble in school. Financial Aid perhaps, Academics, Relationships..something. What it was may not matter as much as the fact trouble came and he was becoming an ex student. So, what he spent much of his life pursuing, for some reason, became past tense without having gained anything in the end.

-Motive:

The economy sucks, jobs suck and people at my own college who are close to graduating aren't happy and proud. They're scared. Literally. If there isn't a job? Well, I personally believe that between that reality and the mountain of student debt he'd have likely had at this point, he "snapped", but didn't go postal. No, this one was a PHD Candidate and a 15% achiever academically. He planned how to gain immortality, avoid facing the real world he had nothing to face it with, and come out without a scratch in the end.

-Outcome:

Well, He would seem to have set a bomb at home to trigger attention and blow the building the first time someone opened it. Perhaps that neighbor, seeing about the raging music turning on suddenly and for no apparent party or other reason. The whole city and parts of the surrounding ones likely would have rolled to THAT call. Exploding Apartment Building calls don't come every day. That would have given him a free hand much longer at the theater.

Then heck... he's decked out to literally stand upright in a firefight and shoot back. We've watched it. He must have. he dressed just like 'em. He armed himself just like them...except he favored American, not Russian. Nice touch...bah. Beyond that, he was as 100% sure as anyone ever could be that he would not get surprised by a CCW or other hero while he did what he went to do.

Then...his gun jams.. Oops... Cleanliness is next to Godliness on that rifle. Someone forgot to mention that, and aren't so many lucky for it. That ended his plans tho...so heck, I'm guessing by then he was already deaf, (no one mentioned it..and I doubt HE thought of it..they never seem to on ears), and had just seen more carnage by his own hand than most soldiers may see in a career.....

-Ending:

He stumbled out and was found almost immediately without his main weapon (inside..where it jammed..and the fact he LEFT it says a lot too - He had a car LOAD of ammo, or they keep saying. Yet, he dropped and walked from his main weapon) and what was he going to do then? No explosion....his gun jammed...and here is a cop, on top of him before he probably realized it. Oops...

Time to PLAY the part! Well...by reports..he's been playing a full blown whacko ever since, but a whacko didn't plan and do this. He's smart, cold and calculating, IMO....and he got his retirement plan with fame in his mind, and without getting a single scratch on himself.



I still wish..he hadn't been taken without incident. To put it nicely. He got everything I believe he did this for, except for more casualties.

*OP, Thanks for a spot for everyone to kinda lay out what they think happened here by the facts! It'll be interesting to see how the truth comes out.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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Basically, somebody did something to him,most likely a Police officer, because he rigged his apt to blow them up. He knew that they would enter his apt after the shooting, and he prepared for them. So, the whole shooting thing was just to lead the cops into his trap. Then he challenged them by telling them he' rigged his apt, maybe thinking that his setup was so good that they couldn't get in without blowing themselves up, and he would be laughing in prison, telling them "I told you so".

That's one scenario.

Another possibility is that Holmes was setup. He didn't actually shoot anybody. He didn't plant all those bombs and booby traps in his apt. Someone else did, to frame him, and use him as a patsy. Maybe someone paid him to play a joke on the cinema crowd. His role was to let in the shooter, who was supposed to throw some tear gas canisters, and fire off a few rounds of "blanks" to make the movie seem realistic, right at a particular scene in the movie, and he was to get out of the way to avoid the tear gas getting into his eyes. What he didn't know was that the other guy intended to shoot live rounds, not blanks, and put all the blame on him. That's why after telling the cop "I'm the joker", thinking it was all fun and games, then realizing that he'd been played the fool himself, he then "insisted on getting a lawyer" and immediately "stopped talking" to everybody. That's the natural reaction when you've just been played the fool, and still have some intelligence left. Because, you realize at that point that anything you say will be construed against you in a court of law.

Some big clues that he might have been setup, [1] he had no escape plan, [2] he thought it was funny, [3] he didn't kill himself, which is one of the paths of most mass killers, [4] he cooperated fully initially with the cops, [5] he stopped talking (means he realized the fun was over), [6] he insisted he get a lawyer (suggesting he now understands the full implications of the event), meaning he intends to fight the wrongful accusations that he shot at people,etc..

the whole thing smells patsy.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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The world is a crazy place with crazy people. I think everybody however deep down is a homicidal maniac, some peoples is just closer to the surface than others. It could have been revenge, social awkwardness or a simple dislike of Batman.

The only person that may even know his real motive is Holmes himself. I find it very strange he was apprehended though.

Still I look forward to cinema's having with armed security and body scanners.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by googolplex
 

I appreciate your reply but I disagree. I didn't think he looked like a whack job, he looks a lot like a lot of kids I know around the neighborhood. And it seems (at least from what I read) that no one saw it coming. He looked like he had a bright future ahead of him.

Star for effort



reply to post by geobro
 

who reads ATS!!! LOL
that was funny!


reply to post by caladonea
 

I agree, he needs to be studied unless.... well..... I guess we have to see what spews out of his lawyer tomorrow morning...
I'm still thinking tumor myself.


reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

OMG you know what. You're absolutely right. Financial problems alone could drive someone to do something like this. I have no doubt. I know the kinda thoughts I had when I was going bankrupt..... obviously I was able to restrain myself but still..... I thought about "going postal".

I wish I could give you 2 stars for that.



reply to post by NAMTERCES
 

Also some excellent ideas. I assumed he had no escape plan because he did not want to escape. Thats why my first thought was "this guy has something to say, and he wants everyone listening." And your point about him not taking his own life leads me away from the tumor theory, because you're right. After a rampage they usually do either kill themselves or put themselves into the position of police killing them....its a lot to think about...



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by NAMTERCES
 


You make some really great points. The fact that he didn't kill himself sticks out right away. Bravo on the theory. Who knows...maybe he is just a lone nut as we've been told...but something with this case just seems off to me. Let's assume you are correct that he is a patsy. The next logical question is who was the real shooter and what was his motive? What about the purchases that James Holmes supposedly made on the internet and at gun shops?

Major questions in my mind:

How the investigators determined so quickly that he acted alone.

Why was he driving a car with Tennessee plates? When he lives in CO and his family is Cali.

No FB, Twitter or old MySpace accounts??? and he's 24...odd



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by FuzzyNutzs
 


hmm.... I can't really buy in to the patsy idea just yet, probably because in my experience thats the first thing that conspiracy theorists jump to - but I won't deny the possibility that he was some sort of "sleeper cell" - or is that the same thing? mostly aiming for clarity there. One shoots, one is framed?


I also find it extremely unusual though that he wasn't dead when this was all over.....

if he is acting "crazy".... I personally think its just that, an act - on the other hand, depression alone is enough to drive people to do things they might normally not have done, but imagine if he's schizophrenic... I've had first hand experience with at least one and looking back on it, I think she was perfectly capable of hallucinating some kind of threat, obtaining some kind of weapons, and carrying out some sort of nonsense like this guy.



"They" also haven't said for sure if he was working alone - I forget which news source it was now, but I did read that he had a roommate? maybe or just a friend... and neighbors said "she" used to dress real nicely but that morning she had left in like, overalls....

I can't seem to find the article now, and it could easily have been nothing more than rumors. Since no further incidents, they either do not exist, chickened out, failed in thier missions, and/or something else is coming..... is something else coming? ..... some scary stuff to think about.


As for social networking? I learned enough reading ATS to know if I planned ANYTHING like this at all - I would remove all my accounts about 6 months in advance so they're not easily retrieved. I also know a few people (sane I think, don't hold me to that!) who are too busy for facetube and twitterspaces, so it is possible he just wasn't into it.... but I'm more inclined to think he deleted them all.

 

ETA: afterthought... I just reread everyones posts..... I hope we're not giving the defense ideas

edit on 23-7-2012 by Forevever because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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He was selected for a special program but failed the exam
He dropped out
He then applied to University of Arizona and did not get accepted
He was on adult finder ( this would suppose he was having a hard time getting the girls in my book)

Basically his life was not going too good ( like most people ) and he went on a killing spree at the batman's opening night.

Why ?

Psychological issues + your life going to total # is enough to drive a man to do such things.

Now, why the batman movie ? Like the op mentioned in another post, just because there was a lot of people to shoot and being a batman fan he knew way in advance that the event would take place giving him proper time to prepare.

News are now coming in that he is pretending to be the joker in prison, that he had a batman mask and a batman poster in his bedroom. So he was a batman fan. Is there more to it ? no

He is now in jail pretending to be the joker to use the mental card in front of a jury.

But a batman fan who deeply thinks he is the joker does not dye his hair orange in order to resemble the joker. I haven't watch a batman movie in 10 years and even i know that the joker's hair is green.

So yes. A deranged individual who enjoyed batman wen't on a killing spree at a batman opening night in order to kill as many people as possible because his life was a total mess.


Also if he had been "used" in any way to do this massacre for someone else's agenda he would be dead already.



edit on 23-7-2012 by DCLXVI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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I have to ammend my post above in one minor point as a story came out detailing the order and use of weapons.

Details of Weapons Used and Order of Use

There is a lot more than just that to this piece, but there are a thousand stories on the topic in general but some of these details are new,


A law enforcement source, who is close to the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly, said something went awry in the killer’s planned assault at the theater. Police said the alleged gunman had three weapons: a Remington shotgun, a Smith & Wesson M&P assault rifle and a Glock .40-caliber handgun.

The assault rifle, which is akin to an AR-15 and is a civilian version of the military’s M-16, could fire 50 to 60 rounds per minute and is designed to hold large ammunition magazines. The source said that Holmes allegedly had obtained a 100-round drum magazine that attached to the weapon but that such large magazines are notorious for jamming.

The law enforcement official said authorities think the gunman first used the shotgun — some victims have buckshot wounds — and then began using the assault rifle, which jammed. Then he resorted to the handgun.
(Source Above)

So he emptied the shotgun, jammed the primary rifle and then probably burned his ammunition magazines on the Glock. he may have been effectively unarmed when the police noticed him and grabbed him. Simply having the Glock doesn't mean a thing if he emptied it and cops are saying they mistook him for one of their own, so having it helped him blend in. I wonder if it even had anything left? It adds a new angle, anyway.

Maybe Mr Wizard wasn't so smart after all and really blew some forward thinking. If so, anything that screwed his plans probably saved others that night.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Stars for 666 and Wrabbit - I love your ideas and information and appreciate your participation.
Great point from 666 too - if he had been programmed by someone to do this, I think he might have been executed by now. Maybe tomorrow? Keep an eye out.


After reading several articles this morning, I'm really annoyed. My thoughts are all over the place.... I'll have to come back when I can organize them a little better.

Everything about this seems just.... wrong. I wanted so bad to wake up to some kind of answer, even a lame one. At least a statement of some kind from the defense... all I'm hearing leads me to believe he's going to try for an insanity plea..... they're going to drag this out as long as its making money for someone aren't they?


I demand a brain scan. Today. (yeah I know....)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Forevever
 


It is just a big joke to him.

Look at the evidence we have now. He planned it all. He wrote some notebook and mailed it to some psych teacher. He studied ''reality'' according to how the brain senses it. He was all into hardcore science. He probably has zero spiritual values. He is a materialist without soul. He was so smart he figured out that he would be a lonely genius for the rest of his days. He didn't care to do that. He wanted to do something amazing.

So he went to a place where people socialize. James couldn't socialize well, so he took out his short man anger on people who were enjoying a night at the movies with friends. He knew there would be girlfriends and boyfriends and he could catch them all off guard. It is a simple tale of calculated revenge against the ''normal'' people.

You just think it is something conspiratorial. It is just James. He got the better of a lot of people. He won. Even if he is killed for his murder activity, he won. He got more than you can get from him. He wins no matter what. It all amuses him.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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The big bulky drum mag on the AR-15 variant.... jammy. No doubt. Aftermarket mags of any size are notorious for jamming. Real shooters always use factory mags.

Check out the Calico carbine with helical magazine. 100 rounds of 9mm. You get a bag of those and you'll squeeze until you melt your barrel. You could literally push hundreds of rounds through a glowing hot barrel. This James dude could have done a much better job if he had practiced. He would have experienced the jam in practice and changed weapons or magazines. Of course he could have used multiple factory mags or whatever. .223 got him excited I'm sure.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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My point here is.... it ain't no gubmint conspiracy.
It is just a pissed-off little dude setting out to paint the town blood red.



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