Where is America's "can do" spirit?

reply to post by apushforenlightment

If effort in gives no reward on the other side then why bother. To many parasites in the form of banks/corperations/poleticians wanting whatever you create.

That seems to be the problem. So why do we continue to participate in their system when its like throwing our children into the volcano as sacrifices to their gods of greed.

Originally posted by frazzle

Do we still have the drive, focus, innovation, self-determination and the desire to invent and create? Do we still have
]

I think we do, but things are much more complex then they were back when it was easier to make something of yourself. Most people I think just feel 'beaten down" by the way things are they just feel like "What's the point?"

Originally posted by poet1b
We're just going through a bad phase. The bad guys have been winning a lot of battles lately, but we are a long ways from losing the war.

The next round of innovation will most likely come from the U.S..

But will the next round come from American ingenuity and creativity or from corporations using hungry Americans as open air prison labor like they now do in so many of the current "manufacturing" countries?

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by frazzle

Do we still have the drive, focus, innovation, self-determination and the desire to invent and create? Do we still have
]

I think we do, but things are much more complex then they were back when it was easier to make something of yourself. Most people I think just feel 'beaten down" by the way things are they just feel like "What's the point?"

Yes, its complex. And therefore we're stuck? I don't think so, I think we need to do everything we can to simplify the complexities. The question is HOW to go about doing that. Doing nothing and going along to get along isn't going to get us out of this mess.

When you're beaten down its time to man the BOOT STRAPS.

That seems to be the problem. So why do we continue to participate in their system when its like throwing our children into the volcano as sacrifices to their gods of greed.

Because everyone in this country has a propaganda machine, it is called the television.

People are unaware that the television influences the way the they think.

Because of this people still believe that they can make a difference by voting for the guy that sounds the best on tv.

The two party system is the major problem with the state of things today. But nothing will ever change because people eat this Repub/Demo crap stuff up. They love to blame the other team for the short comings of this nation.

As long as there is a corporate two party sytem, things will never change. People are too short sighted to see any difference, and alot of people do not even get political.

There are two kinds of people: those that 'can do' and those that want someone else to do it for them. This is a natural state of existence and we constantly tip the scales trying to maintain a fair balance.

The balance is off right now in America. That is why our country seems so divided.

There is one political party on one hand that espouses the spirit of rugged 'can do' individualism, giving a hand up---not a hand out, teaching a man to fish rather than giving him fish every day from cradle to grave, maintaining a position of strength while working toward solutions, and holding their heads high with pride in accomplishment and giving back through fair tax and strong charitable contributions. They tend to take responsibility for their own failures and accomplishments. But, these people and this party are not 100% perfect.

Then, there is another political party on the other hand that constantly beats the drum of America's inadequacies and perceived failures. They blame everybody from their mother to their employer to the other political party to the last president. They want a huge government nanny to take care of everything and remedy every conceivable problem. These people and this party are not 100% perfect either.

So, I think it is all about balance. If you surround yourself with people that have a 'can do' spirit, you tend to believe in the strengths of America and you are usually ACTIVE in working toward goals.

I have a strong belief that nobody should be ashamed of having achieved the proverbial American Dream as long as they achieved it righteously.

You should desire to receive all good things for the purpose of sharing. So, if you are making it, give back. Hire somebody. Create a job for another. Give generously to those institutions and organizations that actually DO something worthwhile for others.

And as a side note....It is the president that sets the general tone. It is my opinion that our current POTUS sees nothing special about our great country. I don't think he embodies the soul of America, but that's just my personal opinion. Therefore, he can't lift us up. He doesn't understand nor does he have the internal tools to understand our nation's greatness and strength. He's too busy focusing on the negative things and whining about somebody else's mistakes.

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by liejunkie01

That seems to be the problem. So why do we continue to participate in their system when its like throwing our children into the volcano as sacrifices to their gods of greed.

Because everyone in this country has a propaganda machine, it is called the television.

People are unaware that the television influences the way the they think.

Because of this people still believe that they can make a difference by voting for the guy that sounds the best on tv.

The two party system is the major problem with the state of things today. But nothing will ever change because people eat this Repub/Demo crap stuff up. They love to blame the other team for the short comings of this nation.

As long as there is a corporate two party sytem, things will never change. People are too short sighted to see any difference, and alot of people do not even get political.

edit on 22-7-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)

I definitely agree with all you've said, but that description it isn't true of everyone. I think the number of people who are like that is shrinking, just not fast enough.

Somehow I get the feeling that the exact reason so many people have become tv junkies is because there are too many rules and regs from all the way to the top to the local nannies that prevent them from being more productive. They see no upside in beating their heads against city hall, so to speak, so they escape to reality shows instead of turning their own lives into reality.

Originally posted by frazzle

Yes, its complex. And therefore we're stuck? I don't think so, I think we need to do everything we can to simplify the complexities. The question is HOW to go about doing that. Doing nothing and going along to get along isn't going to get us out of this mess.

When you're beaten down its time to man the BOOT STRAPS.

Didn't say it was right, just that's the way it is. I don't fall into that mentality but I see it around me everyday.

reply to post by queenofswords


Your two cents seems to consist mainly of the opinion that conservatives have all the can-do and are all hardworking, while liberals are basically lazy and grasping. There's no balance at all to that mindset.

I know a very politically liberal handyman who can do and does repair just about anything that's broken. He charges a pittance compared to very conservative corporations that are licensed, bonded and insured and his work is every bit as competent as theirs. He also has no trouble working on the "dirty" jobs that many of the more reputable companies will say "call someone else, we don't do that kind of work".

There is no one size fits all, just as there are no two sizes fits all.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by frazzle

Yes, its complex. And therefore we're stuck? I don't think so, I think we need to do everything we can to simplify the complexities. The question is HOW to go about doing that. Doing nothing and going along to get along isn't going to get us out of this mess.

When you're beaten down its time to man the BOOT STRAPS.

Didn't say it was right, just that's the way it is. I don't fall into that mentality but I see it around me everyday.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you approved of that mentality and you're right, that's the way it is for a lot of people.

reply to post by frazzle


Sorry if it came across that way to you. I was talking about generalities, the principle core ideology of political parties. Of course, the individuals within each of those parties will have their own personalities and dispositions.

What is a very conservative corporation, btw (in the political sense)? Being licensed, bonded, and insured makes for good business sense, but I don't know that that translates into "a conservative corporation". Picking and choosing what jobs a company accepts also makes sense financially, but, again....???

America's "can do" spirit has been figuratively beaten out of us. We got the "can do" spirit from the freedom we had to engage in ideas and business freely. When the government regulate and the policies they have run in direct opposition to efficiency, ingenuity, creativity, self-sufficiency and small business. It's conditioning on a massive scale.

Imagine an America where the government wasn't setting things up to favor political donors and foreign lenders, and the only regulation was to ensure freedom is not infringed and people were allowed and had to make decisions on their individual risk and information. I have no doubt that America would have developed and implemented technology only seen in sci-fi films, we would not have job and economic problems and the US would still be considered the focal point of development, progress and global economy.

Originally posted by queenofswords
reply to post by frazzle

 

Sorry if it came across that way to you. I was talking about generalities, the principle core ideology of political parties. Of course, the individuals within each of those parties will have their own personalities and dispositions.

What is a very conservative corporation, btw (in the political sense)? Being licensed, bonded, and insured makes for good business sense, but I don't know that that translates into "a conservative corporation". Picking and choosing what jobs a company accepts also makes sense financially, but, again....???

Not a problem, I just wanted to point out some specifics. Politicians from both sides, regardless of the published platforms, seldom maintain the stated ideals once elected. In that regard people on both sides of the aisle have been equally jilted over and over and over again. But we cannot seem to see our mutual interest in booting out or cleaning up the whole pretense of uni-partisan or bi-partisan politics. Our division by party politics and cocked up ideological differences is what keeps that from happening.

The judgement I make about certain conservative corporations is based on the methods and mediums of promotion and advertising they choose. Some of them endorse specific candidates, at least on a local level, so their political leanings are obviously a big part of their overall business strategy.

I see licensing as an issue that is greatly misunderstood and greatly overrated. A license grants nothing but permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal and is basically of benefit only to licensing boards and governments who wish to control business. A license guarantees nothing to a consumer, but the fact that it has been made mandatory is something people should contemplate in the context of control. Insurance and bonding, I agree, makes good sense for everyone involved.

Originally posted by Wolf321
America's "can do" spirit has been figuratively beaten out of us. We got the "can do" spirit from the freedom we had to engage in ideas and business freely. When the government regulate and the policies they have run in direct opposition to efficiency, ingenuity, creativity, self-sufficiency and small business. It's conditioning on a massive scale.

Imagine an America where the government wasn't setting things up to favor political donors and foreign lenders, and the only regulation was to ensure freedom is not infringed and people were allowed and had to make decisions on their individual risk and information. I have no doubt that America would have developed and implemented technology only seen in sci-fi films, we would not have job and economic problems and the US would still be considered the focal point of development, progress and global economy.

Absolutely right on the mark. And that's, IMO, what we need to be imagining and working toward again, becoming UNconditioned and UNbeaten.

Americans are an inherently optimistic people. Even in hard times when this optimism takes a beating, it still is strong and conspicuious.

Most Americans' ancestors (those who weren't indigenous or brought here in chains, that is) came from somewhere else, driven by big dreams of making it big in a new unknown place defined by frontiers both physicial and conceptual. That takes a certain loopy optimism, and its a deep and abiding part of the culture that doesn't vanish overnight.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by frazzle

Do we still have the drive, focus, innovation, self-determination and the desire to invent and create? Do we still have
]

I think we do, but things are much more complex then they were back when it was easier to make something of yourself. Most people I think just feel 'beaten down" by the way things are they just feel like "What's the point?"

You have always have to handle the biggest problem that exist in your sphere/enviroment. And today it is the systems we have built up. If I solve problems and make it easier to live in this sphere/enviroment then I make the illusion of system perfection harder to look thru and we will have to be stuck with the stupidety a long time (a few thousand more years). So fixing things right now (inventing technological solutions) and helping put out fires in the system is counterproductive to solving the system problem. So I am instead blowing on the flames hoping it will collapse faster so we can build something better. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain."

Originally posted by silent thunder
Americans are an inherently optimistic people. Even in hard times when this optimism takes a beating, it still is strong and conspicuious.

Most Americans' ancestors (those who weren't indigenous or brought here in chains, that is) came from somewhere else, driven by big dreams of making it big in a new unknown place defined by frontiers both physicial and conceptual. That takes a certain loopy optimism, and its a deep and abiding part of the culture that doesn't vanish overnight.

Or maybe those who weren't indigenous or brought here in chains were, instead, driven here by the dysfunctional systems that had grown up around them and were choking the living daylights out of them. Any risk, any hardship wasn't too great to keep them stalled and living in fear of the king's men.

But places to run in this hyper-technical era are gone and the whole world is choking on the dysfunctional systems we allowed to grow up around us and spread to every nook and cranny of the planet. Sooner or later we're going to have STOP, find our can do attitudes and say **** the risks and the hardships, put away the fear, stop participating in our own enslavement and just do whatever it takes to make that system choke on its own freaking dysfunction. We need to be doing for ourselves and our families, not the system.

Originally posted by frazzle
Not sure if this is in the right forum, so please to move it, mods, if necessary.

In a recent poll 1,340 people were asked if America’s can-do spirit is faltering. 71% of the respondents said yes, 24% said no and 3% weren’t sure. Some of the comments at the site that performed the poll seem patently absurd www2.ljworld.com... however I was curious about how ATSers would respond to the question and hear your opinions on where the can-do attitude that built America stands today.

Do we still have the drive, focus, innovation, self-determination and the desire to invent and create? Do we still have enough entrepreneurial spirit to ignore the chants that something can’t be done and just go out and do it?

If you think we still have those qualities, what are some examples? If you think they’re gone, what happened to them, where did they go? Also, if you think the can do attitude is gone, what can be done to revive it?

edit on 22-7-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)

I'm afraid it's almost dead. I don't think life support can save it now.

Now there are several things I think caused it. Some might agree with some and some might get kinda p!ssed.

I think our education system failed. I was lucky, born in the middle 60's and school was a local product then. graduated in 1983 so was fortunate to miss out on a lot of "the dumbing down" the federal takeover of education has brought.

Greed. There was a time many-many inventors, scientist and just clever people had a dream of "making the world a better place". Now, it purely about the money...all of them...regardless of field.

Sloth/Apathy. People just don't really care anymore. Perhaps due to the above two reasons to some level. They don't know any better or there is nothing in it for them.

Those are just a couple things. I don't have time to go into it more but suffice to say I think it started out with bad education and went deep into the hole after that.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65

Originally posted by frazzle
Not sure if this is in the right forum, so please to move it, mods, if necessary.

In a recent poll 1,340 people were asked if America’s can-do spirit is faltering. 71% of the respondents said yes, 24% said no and 3% weren’t sure. Some of the comments at the site that performed the poll seem patently absurd www2.ljworld.com... however I was curious about how ATSers would respond to the question and hear your opinions on where the can-do attitude that built America stands today.

Do we still have the drive, focus, innovation, self-determination and the desire to invent and create? Do we still have enough entrepreneurial spirit to ignore the chants that something can’t be done and just go out and do it?

If you think we still have those qualities, what are some examples? If you think they’re gone, what happened to them, where did they go? Also, if you think the can do attitude is gone, what can be done to revive it?

edit on 22-7-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)

I'm afraid it's almost dead. I don't think life support can save it now.

Now there are several things I think caused it. Some might agree with some and some might get kinda p!ssed.

I think our education system failed. I was lucky, born in the middle 60's and school was a local product then. graduated in 1983 so was fortunate to miss out on a lot of "the dumbing down" the federal takeover of education has brought.

Greed. There was a time many-many inventors, scientist and just clever people had a dream of "making the world a better place". Now, it purely about the money...all of them...regardless of field.

Sloth/Apathy. People just don't really care anymore. Perhaps due to the above two reasons to some level. They don't know any better or there is nothing in it for them.

Those are just a couple things. I don't have time to go into it more but suffice to say I think it started out with bad education and went deep into the hole after that.

Yes, education is most likely the source but I would argue that the dumbing down actually began long before the 60s and maybe its just me, but I think some serious mind manipulation was going on all the way back to when the main educational tool in the US was the bible, particularly the fire and brimstone teachings of the old testament. The "kill them all and let god sort it out while usurping the land" philosophy was a major factor in children's upbringing in the early days.

The secular educational system is no better and never was. What people need to be on the lookout for is what kind of books are prohibited in schools as opposed to those a student is required to read. Its directional training with a nice spin on it.

For 6,000 years it has been all about the money. Eons of cultures have suffered through intervals of enslavement and violence on account of wealth disparity, and new cultures came into being to put an end to it, but greed always ended up back on the front burner because non-greedy people willfully allow themselves to be coaxed into compacency and inaction while they're being gradually mind manipulated and re-enslaved.

reply to post by frazzle


Well, you have a really good point. Even in the 60's and 70's there was "pro-government" agenda in schools. However...a lot of the curriculum was still a regionally or district "choice". A small school could still "choose" to teach solid fundamentals. When the fed took over education, that began to change. In my humble opinion, the last nail in the coffin of public education was the "no student left behind" act. When I grew up...lots of students got left behind...it's called "failing" and you get to do that grade over! Now we dumb down the masses so everyone comes out equal...bad idea...really bad idea.