The Russians withdrew the freighter Alaed ...

Originally posted by Ilyich
reply to post by Doc Gator

 

I agree with all your statements but the last.

I don't think Russia is a guaranteed loss to NATO, I would think there motivation not to be drawn in a fire fight with NATO would be again they will look like the bad guy.

I don't doubt the Russians can hold their own against the NATO Nations in the Area, the problem would be facing ALLLLLLL of NATO. Some 64 nations I think. If Russia gets drawn into a fire fight with NATO, for what ever the reason Russia will inevitably be made to look like the bad guy, and that is the only thing I think they would be worried about.

I'm tired already repeated here, only 20% supported the Government of Putin.
Russia is conditional,geographical name of PART (aboout 30% territory)of the State with the name of the Russian Federation, where the Russian nation is largely
In addition to Russian, 100
nationalities living in RF who do not want whatever they were called Russian as the Scots do not want to be called British.
Why do you accuse namely Russian of Putin's policy?
it is racism and russophoby

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Um now as this is an actual action, intentions lead people to try and work out what the actions will be.
This is an action so it shows us exactly what the "intention" is, and it shows that Russia does not want to escalate this to an Cuba style or Vietnam style issue.

May they are just looking for alternate ways to deliver the cargo, such as a navy transport ship instead of a civilian. I am sure this is not the last arms shipment Russia has for Syria. So far there is no indication that Russia's attitude towards the situation in Syria has changed.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
They backed down, have not supported an ally when he needs them the most, have taken an step back from going face to face with Nato etc....

Are you serious? Face to face with NATO? Over what, a third world country with a Civil War? To claim that Russia is spooked by NATO is rather ignorant. If Russia does change its stance, which I doubt it will, it will be through negotiations and getting something in return. You can stop your NATO chest-beating. NATO isn't worth # when all key members can't agree to action or have other more pressing priorities - such as fixing their economies and averting the next financial collapse for instance.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
This is in fact the most clear "intention" and "finger on the pulse" the west has had besides the posturing of putin from years probably since the u2 plane was shot down, so I am sorry I dont only disagree with you I think you are trolling, or have no idea of the what you said meant.

You dismiss what I say as trolling because you can't understand it? Somehow I see that as your problem, not mine.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
The reason Britain had something to with it is the reason it was sent back in the first place, it was intercepted by the British navy in British waters and turned away, it would have to pass our waters to get to syria from its port..

What are you talking about? Any proof or news reports that the "British Navy" intercepted it? The British Navy was never involved. It turned back because it couldn't dock in British port for fuel or pass its EEZ without insurance. It can easily obtain insurance from a certified Russian company. And yes, it can bypass British EEZ and territorial waters via the North Sea. Take a look at the map before making such claims. All it would need is enough fuel. It sounds like you are the one who doesn't know what the hell you are talking about.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
It would not have got to the med especially with an armed escort and an sub with it, it would have been blockaded by britain..

The North Sea is not British territorial waters or EEZ. Russian warships and submarines pass there all the time without having to notify anyone. If Britain attempts any blockade of the North Sea, there will be very severe political and legal consequences.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
stop trolling me maloy I thought you were on here longer than that and better than that to.

Seriously? You can't be that ignorant so as to call me trolling.

reply to post by leosnake


Russians can refer to ethnical Russians (who make up about 70% of Russia), or people with Russian nationality (who make up over 90% of Russia).

reply to post by Ilyich


I think we are talking about the same thing. When I said that Russia can not win an engagement with NATO I was defining win (in my mind which can be a very scary place, you don't want to go there) as maintaining or expanding their holdings in Syria. Even if the engagement ends in a stalemate on the tactical level, Russia would be forced to relinquish their holdings in Syria on the strategic level. So, even a "win" on the tactical side is a "loss" on the strategic side. The Russians aren't stupid, I think that they saw this and are now looking at other options to protect their interests in the region.

Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by leosnake

 

Russians can refer to ethnical Russians (who make up about 70% of Russia), or people with Russian nationality (who make up over 90% of Russia).

there is ethnic Russian and Russian citizens who have Russian citizenship but another nationality.
Ethnic Russian if he lives in Germany calls himself Russian
and not a German.
Germans who live in the territory of RF refer to themselves as Germans and not the Russian and their documents indicate nationality - German

isnt the russian military over in our waters for the RIMPAC?
were they not in the Pearl Harbor parked for a couple days?
Why are people so focused on what russia does,,Putin and Obama
have been talking and are not on any bad terms,,
some of you are like chickens all freaked out cause the farmer has an
ax in his hand,, when he is just going to chop down some shrubs.

Perhaps Russia just doesn't wanna add fuel to the fire, in times where things get really threatening.

reply to post by leosnake


What do you mean by "only 20% supported Government of Putin"? All three times he was elected by the majority vote, in relatively clean elections. I say relatively clean because they were never completely clean in Russia to begin with. But there is little debate or arguement about his support - the majority of the population is content and chose him for better or worse. And all citizens of Russia can vote in elections, so I don't understand why you bring the question of ethnicity and nationality into the picture. The vast majority of the population if the Russian Federation are Russians and consider themselves as Russians.

reply to post by Echtelion


There is no harm really in adding fuel to the fire at this point. The fire is blazing, and there will not be a cease-fire or any negotiations between the Syrian government and rebels anytime soon. It is a protracted bloody conflict of attrition, with plenty of factors to fuel it. The Western governments don't really care about the bloodbath there - they are more concerned about the outcome. I don't see Russia stepping aside on this issue - they will continue to make a stand there, albeit with no direct involvement. They will have to get something very valuable in return for supporting America's and Europe's push for a UN resolution.

Originally posted by leosnake

Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by leosnake

 

Russians can refer to ethnical Russians (who make up about 70% of Russia), or people with Russian nationality (who make up over 90% of Russia).

there is ethnic Russian and Russian citizens who have Russian citizenship but another nationality.
Ethnic Russian if he lives in Germany calls himself Russian
and not a German.
Germans who live in the territory of RF refer to themselves as Germans and not the Russian and their documents indicate nationality - German

160 ethnic groups speak some 100 language

The Russian Federation comprises 83 federal subjects.[116] These subjects have equal representation—two delegates each—in the Federation Council.[117] However, they differ in the degree of autonomy they enjoy.

46 oblasts (provinces): most common type of federal subjects, with federally appointed governor and locally elected legislature.
21 republics: nominally autonomous; each has its own constitution, president or a similar post, and parliament. Republics are allowed to establish their own official language alongside Russian but are represented by the federal government in international affairs. Republics are meant to be home to specific ethnic minorities.
9 krais (territories): essentially the same as oblasts. The "territory" designation is historic, originally given to frontier regions and later also to the administrative divisions that comprised autonomous okrugs or autonomous oblasts.
4 autonomous okrugs (autonomous districts): originally autonomous entities within oblasts and krais created for ethnic minorities, their status was elevated to that of federal subjects in the 1990s. With the exception of Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, all autonomous okrugs are still administratively subordinated to a krai or an oblast of which they are a part.
1 autonomous oblast (the Jewish Autonomous Oblast): historically, autonomous oblasts were administrative units subordinated to krais. In 1990, all of them except for the Jewish AO were elevated in status to that of a republic.
2 federal cities (Moscow and St. Petersburg): major cities that function as separate

Originally posted by leosnake
160 ethnic groups speak some 100 language

All these ethnic groups make up less than 15% of the population (excluding Ukrainians). And besides Russian and Ukrainian, less than 5% speak an ethnic language.

Originally posted by leosnake

The Russian Federation comprises 83 federal subjects.[116] These subjects have equal representation—two delegates each—in the Federation Council.[117] However, they differ in the degree of autonomy they enjoy.

Believe me, I know the constituents of the Russian Federation. No need to repost a wiki article. What I don't see is any relevance to this discussion. Minority ethnic groups parttake in Russian politics - national and regional, and are represented by the Federal government. The vast majority of ethnic minorities have no issues with this structure.

Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by leosnake

 

What do you mean by "only 20% supported Government of Putin"? All three times he was elected by the majority vote, in relatively clean elections. I say relatively clean because they were never completely clean in Russia to begin with. But there is little debate or arguement about his support - the majority of the population is content and chose him for better or worse. And all citizens of Russia can vote in elections, so I don't understand why you bring the question of ethnicity and nationality into the picture. The vast majority of the population if the Russian Federation are Russians and consider themselves as Russians.

from the 100 million eligible voters voted only 60mln,
of these 60mln 50% according to official figures that is, 30 million voted for Putin
that is 30% of the total number of voters, considering the large percentage of fraud especially in the Caucasus. Chukotka and other regions where the official votes for more than 90% of voters, which is physically impossible,
for Putin voted no more than 25 million people from 100 million eligible voters that is 25%

reply to post by leosnake


He got over 60%, or 46 million votes. As for the large portion of the population not voting - that is common in many Werstern countries, including US.

reply to post by maloy


he got on the paper only

Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by leosnake

 

He got over 60%, or 46 million votes. As for the large portion of the population not voting - that is common in many Werstern countries, including US. [/quote03

0,6 x 60 = 36% , 64 % does not support him even by official figures

edit on 21-7-2012 by leosnake because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by leosnake

Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by leosnake

 

What do you mean by "only 20% supported Government of Putin"? All three times he was elected by the majority vote, in relatively clean elections. I say relatively clean because they were never completely clean in Russia to begin with. But there is little debate or arguement about his support - the majority of the population is content and chose him for better or worse. And all citizens of Russia can vote in elections, so I don't understand why you bring the question of ethnicity and nationality into the picture. The vast majority of the population if the Russian Federation are Russians and consider themselves as Russians.

from the 100 million eligible voters voted only 60mln,
of these 60mln 50% according to official figures that is, 30 million voted for Putin
that is 30% of the total number of voters, considering the large percentage of fraud especially in the Caucasus. Chukotka and other regions where the official votes for more than 90% of voters, which is physically impossible,
for Putin voted no more than 25 million people from 100 million eligible voters that is 25%

In the five subjects (the Chechen Republic, Dagestan, Tuva Republic, the Republic of Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia), Putin has collected more than 90% of the vote. In three regions (Mordovia, Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous District, Tatarstan) - More than 80% ???

reply to post by leosnake


You do know that Russia is a nation of 100 Million people right?

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


I repeat never was state in the world with the name of Russia were Rus, the Russian Empire, Soviet Union and now Russian Federation.
This state was founded by the Vikings and the name had its Swedish origins.
Last tsar Nicholas II had only 1% of Russian blood, Lenin was Jew..Stalin was Georgian.
Russian has never ruled their state