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In mathematics, if you owe three people $10, then you are negative $30 (3 X -10 = $-30).
The thirty dollars being the original sin, which I don't have, and the lenders being some sort of jesus or god persons.
If the lenders then say, "We forgive you for this debt because we love you," then you are free from that debt by another negative.
Youre doing the math for your own purpose. If it comes up later that these numbers are important, I'll punch them into a calculator.
You have just had three subtractions of -10, making you three positives of $10 (-3 X -$10). Your debt is -30 + 30 = Zero.
People die all the time, under various circumstances. Very few manage to get themselves killed at the hands of the local government. So even if my homeboy jesus died at the romans, who supposedly hit him to a stick in public display of authority, I doubt I would have single handedly defeated their armies to stop it. However, dude is from about two thousand years ago. I've never met him.
Jesus died a horrible death to pay our debt,
Oh, youve been getting these mafia deals too have you. Were do we always come up with our negative thirty dollars from. We should already know better.
walking us back to a positive value.
Two negatives multiplied make a positive.
I don't know if youre substituting the word jesus for an equation, for a pre-existing number, or that he also has the inexplicable minus thirty dollars.
Apart from Jesus, we are only able to add and subtract debt.
God being the counting house of all this negative thirty dollars. So the thirty dollars he told us we owe him is forgiven, and we owe him a family favour that may or may not cost us our firstborn some years down the road.
With God, we are able to multiply. Debt is forgiven.
You might make the case that one life is too short to get the truth of what God is saying to us.
You might make the case for equality, that some have much and some have little.
You might make the case that some die young and some live to old age. What did Jesus say about this?
He said, "you must be born again." Such a simple truth, yet we miss it entirely.
I can't expound on it here, but in my signature link, there is an article on water and spirit baptism.
Water baptism is the symbol for our immersion into the water of life. We are shown, in each life, what we need to be shown for that experience. Knowing this, divine justice now makes more sense.
Live by the sword and you will die by the sword.
We reap what we sow from life to life and grow by the experience.
If you understand that there is a baptism by water,
Yeah, I think thats an internet meme. With the powers of wind, fire and earth, I summon you captain planet. I never watched that show. It might be a few years ahead of my time.
then extend this by the other baptisms that are mentioned in scripture. In Matthew 3 alone, there are three. Water, Fire and Spirit. What's left? Earth and Air.
Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."
Earth - We are planted into the Garden. We are not rooted in the soil like plants or in a fixed domain like fish.
Yes, suffering is the point. You have the ability to direct the suffering forward for reward that extends to everyone around you. This is love.
This is a bit delusional, if you're okay with me saying so. You say jesus suffered for us, the concept with which I'm familiar. Then you say your religious belief is somehow tied to mathematics. I don't understand how you'll claim the science of math lends your personal beliefs validity. I think you say it so the person you're talking with becomes confused and doesn't question your words. Unfortunately, you're not running away anywhere this time.
"Yes, suffering is the point. You have the ability to direct the suffering forward for reward that extends to everyone around you. This is love."
No, I dont redirect suffering to anywhere else. I take responsibility for my actions and intelligently react to my environment. I don't have to try to cast voodoo hexes on other people or seek shelter in the absence of thought through an invisible humanoid. I fully embrace the pain the world feels. I let it run through my fingers, the hunger and disease of africa. Of child soldiers. I weep when I see their story. I don't run from these things.
The knowledge of being unable to turn to god for your problems is that very few people of the developed world get the privilege of experiencing.
No, you don't try to create an original sin with me. A) I already know what you're doing. Not only have we just recently discussed the concept, but its the only one believers have demonstrated to be capable of understanding. B) Your god person would be mad you're trying to employ his tricks yourself and C) I can throw all the garbage I want into your yard and you would never know it was me. I can throw entire trash bags into your yard, all I have to do is wait until night and do it from the opposite neighbours side. You'd think its him and I'd only have to stop after somebody sets up surveillance equipment or that neighbour moves away.
I'm trying to reduce the greater case to the lesser. They are a reflection of each other. If you throw a piece of trash in my yard, you have created a debt.
I reject your concept that I somehow did you harm and am indebted to you, but finish your idea
I have a choice to fix the negative you caused. I can pick the trash up (Suffer work) and the negative is cancelled by my positive. Suffering creates positive. Your negative
I'd rather you not get into what is and isn't easy, and how doing things the easy way is doing them wrong. I don't believe youre ready for that sort of thinking. We can get into why. I guess I have to get into why. Youre talking about how the physical ease of throwing garbage into a lawn is directly parallel to the morality of the action. We don't have to create immediate and not necessarily helpful guidelines that hinder the progression of our discussion.
was caused by doing something the easy way.
You dont even want to try me. Not with your metaphorical violence, not with your "But its just an example." Next paragraph.
You took reward, which caused a debt for me. If I had come beat you for
So telling me my yard is in disarray to get me upset, in case the mock violent threats didnt get me. Somehow you have to knock me from rational thinking, right down to fearful abandonment of logic, at which you are already king.
I could pick up the trash, then go to your home and pick up your yard as well as a kindness.
I'm not getting into how you feel its just to try to incite fear in others to pick up your workload. You are not the holy roman church. You might scare a few neighbourhood kids into doing things for you. You might coerce people from your community with threat of slander into helping your weekend activities around the church. But you dont get paid for this abuse. Therefore, I dont value the punishment of active mind into enslavement syndrome you substitute for doing things yourself.
This creates more positive than the one negative. To create this, I would be required to suffer work.
You are completely out to space now. Let me just get to your next post.
Only multiples of positive can walk us back to our place of glory with God.
Entirely my point.
Apart from our willingness to go over there and suffer for their betterment,
Skipping to next paragraph
they will languish in the poverty that was originally caused by us in the first place.
It seems youre addressing the psychotic eternal debt idea, rather than where I tried to make you sound like you were talking about having kids. Don't be offended if I skip through whats about to come.
When Jesus said, "you must be born again," he meant it. You will be born again.
I'm sorry. I just cant do this. Just advance to your next topic. You've already whipped out the waters of saint john or whatever. I'm not interested. I wasn't interested then, I wasnt interested now. I will not have your green eggs and ham.
It's the process of baptism into the water of reality.
Originally posted by autowrench
Originally posted by jude11
I keep wondering why ATS is turning into a Religious debate forum and exactly how far it will go down that road.
Seems that's all there is here some days and we have to wear our hip waders.
I think it boils down to this: The Membership of ATS have placed on the table for full examination many different and diversified topics over the years. Many conspiracies have been cleared up, and a host of new information on some has surfaced.
Now it is time to place the established faith based religions on the table for a full examination and dissection. Lets us look hard at their book, their faith, and their religion in general, and see what makes it tick, if anything. Let us see the origins of the things they hold dear to heart. Let is see the truth of everything about them. After all, Christianity has been attempting to run America for years, and once even tried to carve out a land for themselves within America.
I ask you, what is wrong with this effort? Are Christians so insecure and so scared they will be proven wrong that they do not want to be investigated? Do they now want to know the origins of their Gods and Devils, and their book?
Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
See, I personally, as of right now, don't believe in NDEs for a few reasons.
"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control." Link